Coach Michael Voss - Stats, history, articles, videos

[swuzzlebubble]

There's one question that Wright needs to consider... Are there better coaches available (and gettable) than Voss who can have us performing at a higher level? If no, stick with Voss. If yes, like most of us believe, then we thank him for his service and move on from him.

I'd prefer we "stuck fat" but not sure it's that simple. We're in a rut currently and need a circuit breaker. Keeping Voss relies on the offseason and the chance to implement other changes to achieve that.
First I'm not sure we can ride it out to the end of the season due to the toxic supporter and media environment.
Second, relying on other changes would require a pretty high degree of confidence that those changes are addressing the key issues.

Changing coaches guarantees a reset; but of course doesn't guarantee success.

 

[Soapy V]

I'd prefer we "stuck fat" but not sure it's that simple. We're in a rut currently and need a circuit breaker. Keeping Voss relies on the offseason and the chance to implement other changes to achieve that.
First I'm not sure we can ride it out to the end of the season due to the toxic supporter and media environment.
Second, relying on other changes would require a pretty high degree of confidence that those changes are addressing the key issues.

Changing coaches guarantees a reset; but of course doesn't guarantee success.

So keep doing the same thing that has had us fall so quickly?

Serious question. What does Voss bring that you feel we need or will make him a successful coach?

Changing coach may not guarantee success but staying with what we are currently doing certainly won’t

 

[Gointocarlton]

So keep doing the same thing that has had us fall so quickly?

Serious question. What does Voss bring that you feel we need or will make him a successful coach?

Changing coach may not guarantee success but staying with what we are currently doing certainly won’t

Doesnt mean we need to change the coach ...again.

 

[Soapy V]

Doesnt mean we need to change the coach ...again.

So keep doing the same thing that has us getting worse and worse

No thanks

 

[macky99]

Doesnt mean we need to change the coach ...again.

Not sure the past has anything to do with making the right call, too much commentary around this.
We need to be better making the correct decisions at the outset, most of our coaching decisions have been poor.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Not sure the past has anything to do with making the right call, too much commentary around this.
We need to be better making the correct decisions at the outset, most of our coaching decisions have been poor.

True, all Im saying is all variables/factors need to be looked at by expert eyes and not make change for the sake of change.

 

[Soapy V]

True, all Im saying is all variables/factors need to be looked at by expert eyes and not make change for the sake of change.

I haven’t seen anyone advocate for this and still doesn’t answer my original question

 

[Gointocarlton]

So keep doing the same thing that has us getting worse and worse

No thanks

Thats not what I said or meant. I was responding to "staying with what we are currently doing".
To me that doesnt just mean the head coach.

 

[Soapy V]

Thats not what I said or meant. I was responding to "staying with what we are currently doing".
To me that doesnt just mean the head coach.

This discussion/topic is about Voss

I think most believe we need to address more than Voss but he is one issue

 

[Gointocarlton]

2023 team was well developed. Probably our best team since rebuild.

Sure but we leaked a lot of goals if memory serves me correctly. Shoot out, bruise free footy (lots of running both ways) is probably just as taxing as contested footy. Need a balance.

 

[Gointocarlton]

This discussion/topic is about Voss

I think most believe we need to address more than Voss but he is one issue

We will know fore sure between the 15th August and years end.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

So keep doing the same thing that has had us fall so quickly?

No, making the necessary adjustments and having majority of the best players available and fit.

 

[Soapy V]

Sure but we leaked a lot of goals if memory serves me correctly. Shoot out, bruise free footy (lots of running both ways) is probably just as taxing as contested footy. Need a balance.

I thought we went defensive and restricted sides

 

[Gointocarlton]

I thought we went defensive and restricted sides

In 2023?

 

[Will_Hayward]

So keep doing the same thing that has us getting worse and worse

No thanks

That's not what they said.

 

[Soapy V]

No, making the necessary adjustments and having majority of the best players available and fit.

And many of us believe that is changing coach

 

[swuzzlebubble]

And many of us believe that is changing coach

I'm well aware of that

 

[Will_Hayward]

This discussion/topic is about Voss

I think most believe we need to address more than Voss but he is one issue

You misrepresented their point, presumably in bad faith because it was otherwise clear. I think Voss should and probably will go, but it's not just a binary decision of sack or not sack, and not sack is not necessarily 'doing the same thing that has us getting worse and worse'.

 

[Crippa#9]

Doesnt mean we need to change the coach ...again.

Kinda a weak argument though isn’t it? What’s your contention in keeping Voss from an improvement viewpoint?

I suspect some people don’t want to change the current coaching system simply because it would be a little embarrassing or the media will have their five minutes of sh*t throwing.

I’ll say it again…who actually cares about all that!

As fans the ONLY thing we should care about is: ‘what is it that is going to make us better’? Forget about the outside commentary and the “Carlton sack another coach” garbage. It’s just dribble to sell papers and clicks.

I’m backing Wright in and if he thinks it’s Voss that’s gotta go or we can get a net positive out of trading a gun player or two then I’m all for it.

I’m ******g sick of waiting and spending another September being irrelevant.

When you have regressed as rapidly as we have these last 12 months combined with the likes of Longmire seemingly available we would be derelict in not being bold and pursuing the fast-track for improvement.

 

[bmaurizio]

Vossy’s got to go along with a few other assistants, we shouldn’t be surprised. Our performance this year has been most underwhelming.
We club just can’t continue along current trajectory.
Voss has had a fair crack and he’s just not up to the challenge for a multitude of reasons. The gapping difference between our team’s performances and the top 8 is demoralizing.
I’ve got my fingers crossed GW is the catalyst for positive and effective change to multiple areas of operations and bring the club forward into the modern area of football operations.

 

[Soapy V]

Kinda a weak argument though isn’t it? What’s your contention in keeping Voss from an improvement viewpoint?

I suspect some people don’t want to change the current coaching system simply because it would be a little embarrassing or the media will have their five minutes of sh*t throwing.

I’ll say it again…who actually cares about all that!

As fans the ONLY thing we should care about is: ‘what is it that is going to make us better’? Forget about the outside commentary and the “Carlton sack another coach” garbage. It’s just dribble to sell papers and clicks.

I’m backing Wright in and if he thinks it’s Voss that’s gotta go or we can get a net positive out of trading a gun player or two then I’m all for it.

I’m ******g sick of waiting and spending another September being irrelevant.

When you have regressed as rapidly as we have these last 12 months combined with the likes of Longmire seemingly available we would be derelict in not being bold and pursuing the fast-track for improvement.

I keep asking and never get a response.

What traits does Voss bring that make you think he is a good coach?

 

[Gethelred]

I keep asking and never get a response.

What traits does Voss bring that make you think he is a good coach?

I mean, he's not without positive attributes: he's experienced, both as a player and a coach. He's worked within successful programs and development systems. He is capable of change. His coaches box is capable of innovation, and has no issue trying something to see if it works.

Trying to paint him as someone without any positive attributes (cue you saying, "I never said that!", despite implying the shit out of it) is a bit revisionist to say the very least. And you do get responses, SoapyV. Pretending that you don't is rather disingenuous.

 

[Soapy V]

I mean, he's not without positive attributes: he's experienced, both as a player and a coach. He's worked within successful programs and development systems. He is capable of change. His coaches box is capable of innovation, and has no issue trying something to see if it works.

Trying to paint him as someone without any positive attributes (cue you saying, "I never said that!", despite implying the shit out of it) is a bit revisionist to say the very least. And you do get responses, SoapyV. Pretending that you don't is rather disingenuous.

So nothing that says success as a coach? Just experience

He’s been at Brisbane, Port and Carlton and has achieved what? That’s over 12 years. It’s a fair amount of data to judge

I have said his skills are to get along with players and they like him. He can bring a group together. Tactically and match day I believe he is inept

You said he is capable of change. I would debate that point

 

[Gethelred]

So nothing that says success as a coach? Just experience

This is a bit of a wild interpretation of what I said, Soapy.

Isn't experience why people like Matthews and Malthouse were and are still part of the commentariat? Aren't Buckley and Simpson's words in media given additional weight due to their experiences as head coach? Leppisch?

You yourself trade on your own experience. I wouldn't be all that keen on dismissing someone else's off hand.

He’s been at Brisbane, Port and Carlton and has achieved what? That’s over 12 years. It’s a fair amount of data to judge

... the success criteria for an AFL premiership is 1 in 18 every season. If that's your metric, there's an awful lot of people involved in the sport who aren't successful enough to be considered in their role.

Then, add the people who were successful in their roles yet failed at Carlton: Bolton, Russell, and we're about to add Cook to that particular dustbin if this forum is anything to go on. Does the fact that they failed to win a flag here outweigh their success elsewhere?

This is very silly. People can be excellent at their jobs without hitting the top 0.055%, and not everyone involved in a premiership is within the 0.055% of their field.

You said he is capable of change. I would debate that point

It depends on what you see as change.

In 2023, our defense simply wasn't working with Lewis Young, Weitering and McGovern down there. They'd spoil each other, the matchups wouldn't work, and Young's penchant for making mistakes as well as being too slow became a weak link opposition used continuously. The midfield was exceedinly one paced, with slow flankers and no real legspeed, allowing opposition to beat us back to their goal on slingshot. We probably won to halved the clearances, but that meant nothing to an opponent willing to pressure the exit in order to turn the ball over.

Enter, Fogarty, Cuningham onto the forward flanks; Boyd and Doc into defense, with Newman pushed up into Doc's role around the footy. Kemp and McGovern to take the second and third intercepting roles. Basically, a recalibration of personel in the ones to attempt something completely different on the outside and in defense, with the idea being to move the ball with such speed on intercept or turnover that opposition couldn't counter it.

Last year, after repeated failures by Motts and Durdin, Cincotta was played as a defensive forward on the best rebounder, and Williams was thrown forward. Both kicked multiple bags, adding a dimension to our attack that opposition had no answer to.

This season, Motts has spent significant time around clearances, as as Ollie and Durdin.

The coaching panel absolutely are capable of tinkering, suggesting things and trying to see what might work if given an opportunity. That some of those changes aren't to your liking or don't seem to work doesn't mean they don't exist or didn't happen.

 

[Soapy V]

It depends on what you see as change.

In 2023, our defense simply wasn't working with Lewis Young, Weitering and McGovern down there. They'd spoil each other, the matchups wouldn't work, and Young's penchant for making mistakes as well as being too slow became a weak link opposition used continuously. The midfield was exceedinly one paced, with slow flankers and no real legspeed, allowing opposition to beat us back to their goal on slingshot. We probably won to halved the clearances, but that meant nothing to an opponent willing to pressure the exit in order to turn the ball over.

Enter, Fogarty, Cuningham onto the forward flanks; Boyd and Doc into defense, with Newman pushed up into Doc's role around the footy. Kemp and McGovern to take the second and third intercepting roles. Basically, a recalibration of personel in the ones to attempt something completely different on the outside and in defense, with the idea being to move the ball with such speed on intercept or turnover that opposition couldn't counter it.

Last year, after repeated failures by Motts and Durdin, Cincotta was played as a defensive forward on the best rebounder, and Williams was thrown forward. Both kicked multiple bags, adding a dimension to our attack that opposition had no answer to.

This season, Motts has spent significant time around clearances, as as Ollie and Durdin.

The coaching panel absolutely are capable of tinkering, suggesting things and trying to see what might work if given an opportunity. That some of those changes aren't to your liking or don't seem to work doesn't mean they don't exist or didn't happen.

I don’t see “tinkering” as change

Change for me is more significant and around Philosophy and game plan. It’s holistic. I haven’t seen it