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Michael Voss
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Pfft. Knee jerk thread. Vossy is doing a great job because we aren't Melbourne.
May I ask how that contributes to the thread?
Anyway, back on topic. I believe we should review at the end of the season. I love Vossy, but at this stage you have to go with that option.. If the season ended after tonight, personally I would be keeping him. We have shown improvement from last year to this year.
ZoBlitz
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How about you stick to the topic instead of the sarcasm?
Let him see the year out and then assess unless things get really out of hand. We still haven't lost to anyone I would have expected us to beat going into the season and I was surprised we beat Melbourne.
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Go easy on him. I've been mocking him for the past hour so that post is just a continuation of that.
I'm a Voss fan, and I do agree that along with every other coach, he should be reviewed at the end of the season. I think his review should be focussed on three particular things
1. Player development - which players have gone forward? Which players have gone backwards? And for the players that have gone backwards, is that due to a lack of natural talent, lack of work rate or poor attitude. If it is poor attitude, then I'd be concerned as often attitude can reflect leadership, however this can be player related as well. re: Brennan & Sherman.
2. Development of Game Systems & Structures - Is our game plan feasible to take us back up the ladder and our players are not executing it correctly (due to inexperience/skill/fitness etc) & are these systems and structures evolving with the game and on game day.
3. Voss' own progression as a coach - Is he a better coach now than he was at the start of his contract?
If his review doesnt hit the mark with these three things then he has to go. However, we must have an appropriate replacement in mind at the time, someone who is going to do better (Eg hiring chris and brad scott as co-coaches)....I'd rather keep Voss in place, than bring in an inappropriate replacement.
With Voss, unfortunately he is on a hiding to nothing with our current squad, keep in mind Essendon had poor results under Matthew Knights for 3 years before bringing in Hird. I think if Voss stays for another 2 seasons of pain, after that we will see a marked improvement with him at the helm. Whether our club can afford to go through the destabilising process that happens when sacking a coach, is also an important question.
Finally Merrett must return to the backline permanently, unfortunately I remember saying this after the very first QClash....he has not learnt from that debacle.
1. Player development - which players have gone forward? Which players have gone backwards? And for the players that have gone backwards, is that due to a lack of natural talent, lack of work rate or poor attitude. If it is poor attitude, then I'd be concerned as often attitude can reflect leadership, however this can be player related as well. re: Brennan & Sherman.
2. Development of Game Systems & Structures - Is our game plan feasible to take us back up the ladder and our players are not executing it correctly (due to inexperience/skill/fitness etc) & are these systems and structures evolving with the game and on game day.
3. Voss' own progression as a coach - Is he a better coach now than he was at the start of his contract?
If his review doesnt hit the mark with these three things then he has to go. However, we must have an appropriate replacement in mind at the time, someone who is going to do better (Eg hiring chris and brad scott as co-coaches)....I'd rather keep Voss in place, than bring in an inappropriate replacement.
With Voss, unfortunately he is on a hiding to nothing with our current squad, keep in mind Essendon had poor results under Matthew Knights for 3 years before bringing in Hird. I think if Voss stays for another 2 seasons of pain, after that we will see a marked improvement with him at the helm. Whether our club can afford to go through the destabilising process that happens when sacking a coach, is also an important question.
Finally Merrett must return to the backline permanently, unfortunately I remember saying this after the very first QClash....he has not learnt from that debacle.
Mount Nebo
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The good news is that we've got the Broncos/Reds/Roar to keep us entertained in the meantime.
Hollow Knight
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Barring a player revolt of some sort before then, reviewing at the end of the season would be appropriate, and professional.
Lions89
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I personally think at least till half way through, but then depends. Do you think the board thinks this team can grow further if sat Harvey took over halfway through? Who really knows.
Just to get an opinion I know people talk about knee jerk reactions and whether they're good or bad but out of interest, if IF we are sitting here next Sunday after a loss, honestly how would people feel then? Don't worry about knee jerk how would your gut feel about things be?
Just to get an opinion I know people talk about knee jerk reactions and whether they're good or bad but out of interest, if IF we are sitting here next Sunday after a loss, honestly how would people feel then? Don't worry about knee jerk how would your gut feel about things be?
patfullfankezz
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If we sacked Voss, who would replace him? I don't think any of the decent coaches of recent times want to get back into coaching. Also, what sort of effect would a coach change have on the playing group? 50/50 chance things will get worse before they get better.
Agree here. I think our players have at least another 2 years of natural progression to go anyway.
But Brad and Chris Scott co-coaching would be ace.
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I love Vossy, but I think he he should be reviewed at seasons end and sacked!
ZoBlitz
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One consideration about sacking Voss mid-season is the extra cost it will involve for the club, a club that's not particularly flush with money.
Bucking Beads
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He gets till the end of the season IMO. Then we review the year and how he has gone.
dlanod
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The good news is that we've got the Broncos/Reds/Roar to keep us entertained in the meantime.
My compensation for the Lions is that both the Cowboys and the Giants won...
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Maybe its the romantic in me, but I would love to see an all out effort to gather our former champs who are now coaches .e.g. Scott bros, Lappin Leppa, Chris Johnson and bring them home....and then together with Voss, Brown and Black, work on forming our next assault at the premiership..
The old bringing in the new..
...I also believe we have the majority of young players capable of doing that, just have to find the winning combination..
We don't have to do things the same way as other clubs......lets do it our way..be independantly different..
...but then I wake up from that dream..
The old bringing in the new..
...I also believe we have the majority of young players capable of doing that, just have to find the winning combination..
We don't have to do things the same way as other clubs......lets do it our way..be independantly different..
...but then I wake up from that dream..
My gut feel would be that weak clubs sack their coach midseason.
If we were to do something like that we would have to amend our vision statement to the below:
Relentless, United, Respectful (but when the going gets tuff we cut and run and look for a short term fix).
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Review at season end, didn't help Melbourne much last season to make a during the season decision.
The KPIs in the latest contract may make the decision on behalf of the club?
Whatever they happen to be.
Options would be? The general consesus may be that we are a poisoned chalice amongst potential suitors.
The KPIs in the latest contract may make the decision on behalf of the club?
Whatever they happen to be.
Options would be? The general consesus may be that we are a poisoned chalice amongst potential suitors.
mINORITY
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My first thought was Richmond.
Agree TBD. Professional organisations are, IMO, easier to work with and for. Organisations that are more reactive can leave people wonder who is next.
Have to agree with Kezz here - if you are going to sack a coach mid season you would need to already have someone better lined up who is willing to take on the role. It would also have to be someone the playing group is willing to work with.
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I don't think there is much to be gained by sacking Voss mid-season, unless of course we lose to GWS and GC by 10+ goals each and have a "190" game like Melbourne did last year.
Mind you, I think that we should be on the look-out for someone to replace Voss at the end of the season. Unfortunately I get the feeling that he is not capable of taking the current group of players forward. For mine, for Voss to save his job, we'd have to finish up with 6-7 wins minimum. That number of wins is not out of the question, but it is also quite possible that we could finish with less. Being able to run decent teams to the line would also be an indicator of improvement that might save Voss his job.
Likewise, I also think we need to target more assistant coaches with experience at AFL level. Apart from W.Brittain, Harvey and O'Donnell, I think too many of our assistant coaches over recent times have been rookies who have not been able to bring as much to the table as those with more longer term experience at AFL level.
Mind you, I think that we should be on the look-out for someone to replace Voss at the end of the season. Unfortunately I get the feeling that he is not capable of taking the current group of players forward. For mine, for Voss to save his job, we'd have to finish up with 6-7 wins minimum. That number of wins is not out of the question, but it is also quite possible that we could finish with less. Being able to run decent teams to the line would also be an indicator of improvement that might save Voss his job.
Likewise, I also think we need to target more assistant coaches with experience at AFL level. Apart from W.Brittain, Harvey and O'Donnell, I think too many of our assistant coaches over recent times have been rookies who have not been able to bring as much to the table as those with more longer term experience at AFL level.
Our draw starts to open up a fair bit now, some winnable games starting to appear soon.
I hope if the writing is on the wall for him to be sacked, that the club does two things:
1. NOT sack Voss mid-season. It's unfair and unprofessional. That doesn't mean that the decision isn't made mid-season, and perhaps Voss is aware of this, however it should be kept under wraps.
2. Start making professional, and discreet, approaches to talented SENIOR coaches to join and take over.
I don't want to see us caught with our pants down end of the season scrabbling around trying to find a coach. I'd like us to get the ball rolling and the wheels turning before then...And in the best interests of the club, the playing group, Voss's future, and the highest chance of wooing a good coach to take over is to keep that decision under wraps until the end of the year.
I'd say if these atrocious performances continue to rack up like they are with little real improvement, then I'd certainly hope the club starts the ball rolling early rather than later. We don't want to be left with the scraps when it comes time to replacing Voss.
I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Voss involved with the club in some fashion - perhaps as a specialist midfield coach, or some other non-coaching role. This however, may be problematic or be perceived to cause potential friction with any new incoming coach. Wait and see. Maybe its just the dreamer in me wanting him to stick around. Perhaps a fresh start elsewhere for him could be a blessing in disguise if he really is genuine about a career as an AFL coach.
1. NOT sack Voss mid-season. It's unfair and unprofessional. That doesn't mean that the decision isn't made mid-season, and perhaps Voss is aware of this, however it should be kept under wraps.
2. Start making professional, and discreet, approaches to talented SENIOR coaches to join and take over.
I don't want to see us caught with our pants down end of the season scrabbling around trying to find a coach. I'd like us to get the ball rolling and the wheels turning before then...And in the best interests of the club, the playing group, Voss's future, and the highest chance of wooing a good coach to take over is to keep that decision under wraps until the end of the year.
I'd say if these atrocious performances continue to rack up like they are with little real improvement, then I'd certainly hope the club starts the ball rolling early rather than later. We don't want to be left with the scraps when it comes time to replacing Voss.
I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Voss involved with the club in some fashion - perhaps as a specialist midfield coach, or some other non-coaching role. This however, may be problematic or be perceived to cause potential friction with any new incoming coach. Wait and see. Maybe its just the dreamer in me wanting him to stick around. Perhaps a fresh start elsewhere for him could be a blessing in disguise if he really is genuine about a career as an AFL coach.