micks coaching

[Nardz]

I dont think he rates the rivalry between them like Eddie and us supporters do
so until he does I cant see us beating carlton while he is still here

yeah. i dont think so either. and it makes me sick.

if you can't embrace one of your clubs biggest rivalries, seriously, just get out.

 

[The Dawes]

All any coach can do is to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal. If you asked non-Collingwood people for an objective opinion of what they thought of MM's coaching, I have no doubt they would rate him highly because he is seen to be getting the best out of our group.

I know that ultimately he is responsible for the makeup of the playing group, but given the constraints of drafting/salary cap/trading, et al he can only work with the players he has.

He is very astute in the way he has evolved as a coach in recent years - his use of the interchange for example has lead the AFL and no doubt helped to cover deficiencies in our midfield compared to other clubs - perhaps moreso last year than this. Allowing the likes of Thomas, Didak and Davis to expresss themselves on the field shows he isn't married to the same dour style that he appeared to be at West Coast.

He has us playing a style of footy that he believes is conducive to success in September using high pressure and plenty of tackling and I firmly believe this is the way to go. I am far more confident of our blokes rising to the pressure of a final than I am of the Doggies being able to do the same for example.

As to the Carlton thing, we had won the previous 4 meetings up until this year and the main reason we lost was, IMO, Brendan Fevola kicking bags in both games. There isn't always a lot a coach can do when an opposition player has a day out or when the players have off days, but to say he just sits back and watches it unfold and does nothing is nonsense.

As Tess says, the proof is in the pudding and without a flag there will always be a quesions mark against his name when you compare him to the greats like McHale, Smith, Hafey, etc until he wins at least another one.

Personally, I reckon he has put the structure in place to achieve this in the next 2 - 3 years.

 

[unplugged]

I personally cannot stand seeing people talking down on MM whenever we have a loss. He seems to be a fantastic bloke I too love the way he handles the media ahahh

 

[tess]

Personally, I reckon he has put the structure in place to achieve this in the next 2 - 3 years.

I bet ya thought the same in 2002/03 as well......


Would you like cream with ya pudding?

 

[Nardz]

Personally, I reckon he has put the structure in place to achieve this in the next 2 - 3 years.

with plenty of luck perhaps.

in the next 2-3 years burns, presti, rocca, wakelin will be gone.
our team still heavily relies on those players. We don't seem to have any inside midfielders of burns' quality (and i mean his current 30+ year old quality) ready to step up. brown/o'brien have to step into the major KP defender roles to replace presti/wakelin. cloke has to step up to roccas plate to be the CHF/FF we build the team around, meaning anthony/dawes have to step into clokes shoes.

and all that is to get to the same level we're at now, which is not a premiership winning level.

i reckon we're a good 5 years away.

 

[Optimax]

I bet ya thought the same in 2002/03 as well......


Would you like cream with ya pudding?

No tess tbh i still cant believe MM got us into grand finals those years let alone have us in a position to win in 02 and should have won in 03 except for a bullshit suspension to rocca.

Apart from buckley and and at that time Rocca and maybe tarrant we had a bunch of kids or discarded vertrans.

In 02: steinfort, freeborn, Mckee, Betheras, Molloy were seniors and we had Fraser in the ruck to go with Johnson, lonie, tarrant as the kids holding up the side.

03 was similar: the GF team contained Kinnear, lokan, Walker, The discarded woewodin, re-invented Holland etc.

So both those teams had no right being any where near brisbane or even port adelaide of those times. Where as now you can see the side being built and comign together and still winning games and plaing and winning finals.

You have a massive MM grudge yes he is stubborn but he is the best right now

 

[Somebody]

.......... we missed the top 4 on percentage last year, and the same is likely to happen this year after we've dropped games we should have won.

Fortunately not this year, since Sydney are now the only obstacle and they have a draw.

 

[Seeks]

No tess tbh i still cant believe MM got us into grand finals those years let alone have us in a position to win in 02 and should have won in 03 except for a bullshit suspension to rocca.

Apart from buckley and and at that time Rocca and maybe tarrant we had a bunch of kids or discarded vertrans.

In 02: steinfort, freeborn, Mckee, Betheras, Molloy were seniors and we had Fraser in the ruck to go with Johnson, lonie, tarrant as the kids holding up the side.

03 was similar: the GF team contained Kinnear, lokan, Walker, The discarded woewodin, re-invented Holland etc.

So both those teams had no right being any where near brisbane or even port adelaide of those times. Where as now you can see the side being built and comign together and still winning games and plaing and winning finals.

You have a massive MM grudge yes he is stubborn but he is the best right now

I agree with you whole heartedly mate, with th exception of he Rocca call....he elbowed Lade in the head.

Great coach who has done a lot with sometimes quite little.

Given us som great times over the years, lets hope he can lead us to the ultimate!

Go Pies!

 

[adzarani]

MM is a brilliant coach......no doubt.

But his geatest skill is his ability to influence public perception of his performance.

Which according to this thread is that "He has done a fantastic job with a crap bunch of players", for 8 1/2 seasons. The public don't even question "Why has he had an average list for 9 years", they just know that Mick is good, he hasn't got much to work with, he's doing the best he can.

In reality he has done no better than Dean Laidley in the last 5 years . The coach of a club who has every excuse not to put a topline side on the park, from money problems to outdated facilities to uncertainty about the future, North is one club who isn't expected to field a topline squad.

If Malthouse is so fantastic, why is his Collingwood dynasty neck and neck with North given he had a 4 year head start on Laidley?

Why hasn't he been able to build a topline list, when every other current coach who has been in their job as long as him has not only built a topline list, but won a flag?

Why was there no real succession plan for Buckley, Burns & Rocca despite a decade of "rebuilding"?

and why is he just a valuable now as the day he walked into the club, he has transferred none of that value to the playing group, Clarkson & Thompson have added value to themselves through their playing groups. Malthouse has maintained his value at the expense of OUR playing lists.

The difference between Malthouse and Laidley is this:

If MM was paid $10k per H & A win and $250k per finals victory, we would see a different coach.

If Laidley was paid the same way, nothing would change.

I love MM as a coach, but as a businessmsn I think he is to slippery for us to get the best out of him.

 

[The Dawes]

I bet ya thought the same in 2002/03 as well......


Would you like cream with ya pudding?

Depends on the flavour - but usually ice cream.

 

[Beloved]

These threads come up after losses because posters are looking to blame anyone for anything, from personal experience.

Bottom line is that Mick is a good, smart coach who knows what he wants, where he wants to be and where he is going with the club. Any coach who's led the club into as many finals appearances as the Magpies during their reign couldn't be considered anything less than a quality coach, despite not winning a flag.

 

[MAKESHIFT]

Only a few short weeks ago many people were after his blood. Talking about new coaches etc.
My opinion has not and will not change about him. I think his days are numbered. Yes he coached Westcoast to grand finals but look at that side. He has had some success with Collingwood but not enough. Ultimately it is his responsiblilty. All coaches know his game plan and can work him out. He doesn't make changes when required and leaves players to be burnt time and time again. He needs to stop playing some of the old favorites that are not performing so well at the moment either rest them or drop them and give the young ones a go.Burns, O'Bree, Wakelin and Co. cannot keep going on forever and if we need experience in the finals we need to make sure they are prime. I realise it is a catch twenty two situation if we rest these players and lose we may not make the finals. I am not suggesting we rest them all at once but in saying that you honestly can't expect the young ones to come in for a game and step into these major positions. As everyone knows the speed and skills between VFL and AFL are quite different.
I believe MM is very concerned about his own career and thats why we play the kids sparingly. He has been lucky with injuries until recently. What happens if any of these, Burns, O'Bree, Didak Thomas or Pendles get injured then we will have to rely on the raw but talented kids with very limited experience. My point is have faith MM and give them more of a go not just one game here or there.

 

[Pie eyed]

Only a few short weeks ago many people were after his blood. Talking about new coaches etc.
My opinion has not and will not change about him. I think his days are numbered. Yes he coached Westcoast to grand finals but look at that side. He has had some success with Collingwood but not enough. Ultimately it is his responsiblilty. All coaches know his game plan and can work him out. He doesn't make changes when required and leaves players to be burnt time and time again. He needs to stop playing some of the old favorites that are not performing so well at the moment either rest them or drop them and give the young ones a go.Burns, O'Bree, Wakelin and Co. cannot keep going on forever and if we need experience in the finals we need to make sure they are prime. I realise it is a catch twenty two situation if we rest these players and lose we may not make the finals. I am not suggesting we rest them all at once but in saying that you honestly can't expect the young ones to come in for a game and step into these major positions. As everyone knows the speed and skills between VFL and AFL are quite different.
I believe MM is very concerned about his own career and thats why we play the kids sparingly. He has been lucky with injuries until recently. What happens if any of these, Burns, O'Bree, Didak Thomas or Pendles get injured then we will have to rely on the raw but talented kids with very limited experience. My point is have faith MM and give them more of a go not just one game here or there.

Firstly, everybodies days are numbered.
Secondly, your "injury" argument applies to every coach and every club.
Lastly, I seethat the way Mick has used the young raw talent is exactly what you are proposing and claiming he is not doing.
He throws in a young player to be blooded whenever and wherever he thinks he can specifically for the reasons you espouse.

Do you propose he just selects the VFL side one week and sends them to the slaughter?

If coaching was easy anyone could do it...
If winning a flag was easy every side would have a swag.

 

[adzarani]

Win/Loss Since 2000:

1. Roos 62.33% Prems: 1
2. Craig 62.11% Prems: 0
3. Matthews 60.54% Prems: 3
4. Williams 59.71% Prems: 1
5. Worsfold 58.86% Prems: 1
6. Thompson 57.04% Prems: 1
7. Sheedy 55.85% Prems: 1
_____________________

12. Malthouse 50.00% Prems: 0

11 other coaches have outperformed MM this decade. Yet he is seen as some sort of coaching guru.

Worsfold took WC from 14th in 2001 to a flag in 2006, but he is not seen as any sort of guru.

MM is not in the same leauge as these other coaches based on performances this decade. Especially Worsfold, given that he took a bottom side to a flag.

MMs records against these coaches is outstanding. Something is not right there.....

Public perception is that MM is in the same leauge as the topline AFL coaches. His record suggests he is the equivalent of Laidley or Neal Daniher, not Roos, Williams or Worsfold.

MM has been around for a long time, but it is his ability to influence public opinion more than his ability to win flags that has kept him in the game.

Time to hit out or get out MM.

 

[tess]

Win/Loss Since 2000:

1. Roos 62.33% Prems: 1
2. Craig 62.11% Prems: 0
3. Matthews 60.54% Prems: 3
4. Williams 59.71% Prems: 1
5. Worsfold 58.86% Prems: 1
6. Thompson 57.04% Prems: 1
7. Sheedy 55.85% Prems: 1
_____________________

12. Malthouse 50.00% Prems: 0

11 other coaches have outperformed MM this decade. Yet he is seen as some sort of coaching guru.

Worsfold took WC from 14th in 2001 to a flag in 2006, but he is not seen as any sort of guru.

MM is not in the same leauge as these other coaches based on performances this decade. Especially Worsfold, given that he took a bottom side to a flag.

MMs records against these coaches is outstanding. Something is not right there.....

Public perception is that MM is in the same leauge as the topline AFL coaches. His record suggests he is the equivalent of Laidley or Neal Daniher, not Roos, Williams or Worsfold.

MM has been around for a long time, but it is his ability to influence public opinion more than his ability to win flags that has kept him in the game.

Time to hit out or get out MM.

While the Eddie PR machine is behind MM people will believe anything. Unfortunately Eddie has not just surrounded himself with Yes men but he has also used the Clubs money to employ high profile supporters to support him on forums like this, Ed is no fool.

Where did ya get the stats on coaches?

 

[adzarani]

http://afl.allthestats.com/coaches/coachrecs.php?t1=&t2=&yrfm=2000&yrto=2008&gnd=0


Stats are from allthestats.com

Don't know much about what Eddie does behind the scenes.

I'm just very frustrated with the "MM doesn't have much to work with, he's doing everything he can" mentality.

It's easier than ever before to build a topline squad. There is half a dozen examples above.

Who is next? Clarkson, Knights, Ratten?

It makes me sick!

 

[Big Bucks]

Win/Loss Since 2000:

1. Roos 62.33% Prems: 1
2. Craig 62.11% Prems: 0
3. Matthews 60.54% Prems: 3
4. Williams 59.71% Prems: 1
5. Worsfold 58.86% Prems: 1
6. Thompson 57.04% Prems: 1
7. Sheedy 55.85% Prems: 1
_____________________

12. Malthouse 50.00% Prems: 0

11 other coaches have outperformed MM this decade. Yet he is seen as some sort of coaching guru.

Worsfold took WC from 14th in 2001 to a flag in 2006, but he is not seen as any sort of guru.

MM is not in the same leauge as these other coaches based on performances this decade. Especially Worsfold, given that he took a bottom side to a flag.

MMs records against these coaches is outstanding. Something is not right there.....

Public perception is that MM is in the same leauge as the topline AFL coaches. His record suggests he is the equivalent of Laidley or Neal Daniher, not Roos, Williams or Worsfold.

MM has been around for a long time, but it is his ability to influence public opinion more than his ability to win flags that has kept him in the game.

Time to hit out or get out MM.

"Hear Hear" i have said it before and i will say it again, Malthouse is the great deflector, when results don`t go our way he always has a scapegoat, never himself, We lost the 02 Grand Final and Terry Daniher was the scapegoat, we lost the 03 Grand Final with J.Cloke playing in the most important position of the ground at CHF without ever playing there before and he makes Jason the scapegoat.
Take responsibility Mick or take OFF.

 

[Rohan25]

While the Eddie PR machine is behind MM people will believe anything. Unfortunately Eddie has not just surrounded himself with Yes men but he has also used the Clubs money to employ high profile supporters to support him on forums like this, Ed is no fool.

Ok, that's just insulting to my intelligence, and that of a lot of other supporters. My opinion on Malthouse has nothing to do with "the Eddie PR machine" as you put it. Nor does it have anything to do with "high profile supporters" that may be defending him.

I am quite capable of forming my own opinions, just like you are. I have a high opinion of Mick Malthouse's coaching ability. I started to form it in 1988 as a 7 year old when my Footscray supporting cousin got me close up to a Footscray training session and I watched him schooling a group of youngsters on defensive pressure. Believe me Tess, there was certainly no PR machine behind him in those days.

Over the years I began to admire his coaching style and ability more and more. Yes he has made mistakes, but a lot less than many other coaches have made. I think he has done good things with Collingwood, and I think he has a lot more to offer us.

Although your opinion differs to mine, please do not marginalise my views by putting it down to the "PR machine" telling me what to believe. I am quite capable of forming my opinions, and my opinion is that we have a coach we can be proud of, and one that we can trust to make the right calls.

 

[Big Bucks]

Ok, that's just insulting to my intelligence, and that of a lot of other supporters. My opinion on Malthouse has nothing to do with "the Eddie PR machine" as you put it. Nor does it have anything to do with "high profile supporters" that may be defending him.

I am quite capable of forming my own opinions, just like you are. I have a high opinion of Mick Malthouse's coaching ability. I started to form it in 1988 as a 7 year old when my Footscray supporting cousin got me close up to a Footscray training session and I watched him schooling a group of youngsters on defensive pressure. Believe me Tess, there was certainly no PR machine behind him in those days.

Over the years I began to admire his coaching style and ability more and more. Yes he has made mistakes, but a lot less than many other coaches have made. I think he has done good things with Collingwood, and I think he has a lot more to offer us.

Although your opinion differs to mine, please do not marginalise my views by putting it down to the "PR machine" telling me what to believe. I am quite capable of forming my opinions, and my opinion is that we have a coach we can be proud of, and one that we can trust to make the right calls.

Right calls! like the one to play J.Cloke CHF in the 03 grand Final when he had never played there before, good call Mick.
How about his decision that we trade away our second priority selection to Richmond in exchange for Steve McKee at the expense of missing out on Pavlich,good call Mick.
Then there is Heath Scotland whom the coach never had time for , Scotland was getting 25 quality disposals a game and Mick would drop him the next week,good call Mick.

 

[Rohan25]

J.Cloke Steve McKee Heath Scotland ....good call Mick.

I never said he hadn't made mistakes. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

But I'd really rather not debate this with you, because I don't think you actually support Collingwood. I never ever hear you say anything positive about Collingwood.

 

[Big Bucks]

I never said he hadn't made mistakes. In fact, I said the exact opposite.

But I'd really rather not debate this with you, because I don't think you actually support Collingwood. I never ever hear you say anything positive about Collingwood.

Collingwood has a magnificent marketing department,extraordinary facilities, wonderful supporters,and magnificent spin doctors.

 

[Godfrey Jones]

Collingwood has a magnificent marketing department,extraordinary facilities, wonderful supporters,and magnificent spin doctors.

Collingwood is the greatest club in the world. You don't agree?

 

[Big Bucks]

Collingwood is the greatest club in the world. You don't agree?

Greatest Club yes, because i love em, most successful NO.

 

[Godfrey Jones]

Greatest Club yes, because i love em, most successful NO.

still the greatest though.

agreed.

 

[adzarani]

I am quite capable of forming my opinions, and my opinion is that we have a coach we can be proud of, and one that we can trust to make the right calls.

I agree 100% that everyone is capable of making thier own opinions.

And to a degree we can be proud of MM. But he is not coaching for free. He is one of the highest (if not the highest) paid individuals in Australian domestic sport full stop.

All this "we're behind you Mick" stuff is wearing pretty thin. If he was Laidley on $300k a year fair enough, but he isn't. He is supposed to be a high performance individual in a high performance position, but his output is that of an average person, exactly 50/50

He is bending our club over a barrell using our fear of going back to an era like the late 90s to extract as much money from us as he can. Everyone is so terrified that we will become a rabble that we cling to Mick like a scared child!

The Collingwood Football Club clings to Mick Malthouse like a scared child at the fair!!

He knows this and takes full advantage of the situation.

The guy is damaged goods. He never will let any power rest with the playing group after what happened in the west. He is milking the footy club, Essendon had enough of Sheedy doing the same thing, and his record is far better than MMs. When Sheedy left Essendon what did he say "The Essendon footy club....they've been a good client of mine" Collingwood is a client of MM, simple as that, he is shortchanging us big time.