Midfield deficiencies

[SJ]

There is a bit of a trend I have noticed from the past month or so where Geelong's midfield is starting to get beaten at the stoppages even though its ruckmen are getting their hands on the footy more than the opposition. Although the Cats dominated Collingwood in clearances in round 8, they've been beaten since then by Carlton, the Bulldogs and Hawthorn even though they've recorded superior in hitout numbers on every occasion. From memory Geelong was even beaten in clearances in the first half against the very young Suns.


Round 8: Collingwood
Hitouts: 44 (+20)
Clearances: 35 (+8)

Round 9: Carlton
Hitouts: 41 (+2)
Clearances: 35 (-6)

Round 11: Western Bulldogs
Hitouts: 36 (+5)
Clearances: 33 (-1)

Round 12: Hawthorn
Hitouts: 51 (+14)
Clearances: 33 (-6)

So why is this the case with such a strong midfield? With Kelly, Corey, Selwood, Chapman and so on in the middle and winning more hit outs than the opposition, not getting the majority of clearances makes beating these better teams all the more hard. If we could swing the numbers the other way to around +5 instead of -5 we could be looking at a far more convincing performances.

I'd like to get Bartel in there for at least periods of matches against the big boys.

Yes he is good particularly late in big games when dropping back to provide the extra man or taking contested marks at half forward, but by rotating him through there for periods of games I think Geelong could improve as a side.

 

[alfy!]

Noticed this too. When the Hawks kicked those 5 goal streaks, we were getting killed in the middle. Very frustrating.

 

[SJ]

Noticed this too. When the Hawks kicked those 5 goal streaks, we were getting killed in the middle. Very frustrating.

And also in the third quarter. Hawthorn were all over us, we simply couldn't get our hands on the footy.

 

[barmy44]

i assumed the midfield deficiency you were going to point out was in relation to every other club not having james kelly... the guy has been massive this year.

 

[vinum coupe]

We always do it. There are usually 2 patches in every game where we drop off intensity around the stoppage.

I'm not sure if it is fatigue, attitude, or just the combination of midfielders that are at the contest during these patches.

I don't mind if it's the latter one.

 

[SJ]

i assumed the midfield deficiency you were going to point out was in relation to every other club not having james kelly... the guy has been massive this year.

He has been. One of my favourite players.

But even then as a whole our midfield is getting beaten where it counts. And that is hurting.

 

[cat in sydney]

I have a feeling that it's partly due to rotating younger, less experienced players through there.
We've seen Stokes (not so much inexperienced, but rarely used as a clearance midfielder), Duncan, Menzel, T. Hunt, Vardy etc. rotate through there this year.
It will naturally take a little while for new players to get up to the level of the others. Until then, there's always going to be times when they won't quite be in the right spot, or will miss a tackle, or whatever, and the opposition will clear the ball.

When it really matters in a game though, you'll find that Selwood, Ling, Corey and Ottens are the go-to guys, and get it out of there more often than not (see final qtr on Saturday night).

 

[Selective Retention]

Like tackling I don't think we've ever been a great clearance side over the last few years. We've won games by 10 goals and still lost clearances in the past.

 

[you pick one]

I have a feeling that it's partly due to rotating younger, less experienced players through there.
We've seen Stokes (not so much inexperienced, but rarely used as a clearance midfielder), Duncan, Menzel, T. Hunt, Vardy etc. rotate through there this year.
It will naturally take a little while for new players to get up to the level of the others. Until then, there's always going to be times when they won't quite be in the right spot, or will miss a tackle, or whatever, and the opposition will clear the ball.

When it really matters in a game though, you'll find that Selwood, Ling, Corey and Ottens are the go-to guys, and get it out of there more often than not (see final qtr on Saturday night).

Yeah that was basically Chris Scotts response when asked the question recently.

 

[Exhale You]

It really is a mystery when you consider the quality, ball-winning ability and toughness of our midfield group.

I don't have an answer and i don't think the club do but i'm just glad that Chris Scott continues to raise it every week, thereby telling everyone that despite us continuing to win, there are significant elements of our game that we need to improve on.

We've still got time before the business end so hopefully Chris and the coaching staff can work it out and implement some strategies to ensure our contested ball and clearance work doesn't fluctuate so much throughout games.

 

[CharacterFirst]

It really is a mystery when you consider the quality, ball-winning ability and toughness of our midfield group.

I don't have an answer and i don't think the club do but i'm just glad that Chris Scott continues to raise it every week, thereby telling everyone that despite us continuing to win, there are significant elements of our game that we need to improve on.

We've still got time before the business end so hopefully Chris and the coaching staff can work it out and implement some strategies to ensure our contested ball and clearance work doesn't fluctuate so much throughout games.

Yep. It is something of a concern.

No answers. Club don't know either (or are keeping quiet on the answers for the business end). But are letting us know they see the problem as well.

 

[SJ]

Would love to see a list of the number of starts in centre contests for Geelong players this year. Doubt the Brownlow Medallist midfielder on the list would figure in the top six. Might not even make the top ten.

 

[witsend]

More than almost any other club we rotate different combinations through the middle. I suspect it's to spread the load, try different combos and to give C. Scott a good luck at every player in there in the heat of battle.
I would imagine in September we will see our best in the middle more often.

 

[GeeCats07]

Would love to see a list of the number of starts in centre contests for Geelong players this year. Doubt the Brownlow Medallist midfielder on the list would figure in the top six. Might not even make the top ten.

This. Time to unleash Jimmy back in the midfield.

 

[CF]

I see it this way:

*rotations - our back up midfielders are not performing as well.

*Taggers - we have had games some of our key midfielders have been well held.

*stoppage work - Geelong has changed little their stoppage set ups, with Ottens always trying to hit the ball down in front so someone can run from behind him onto it. I think this is has become too predictable.

*Hit outs - being sharked by opposition players. I think the art of rucking for someone who knows that they will be beaten by the other ruckman most of the time is to make sure he can only hit it where there is a 50/50 contest for the ball. This tends not to go in our favour.

This has been a long standing problem for us. I wonder if the mindset is that if we cannot get it our defence will win it and we will get it coming back the other way. But this year we will need to be right on this to win the finals.

 

[catswhiskers]

It looks like we set up as if we don't expect to win the tap sometimes.
Vardy got his hands to the ball first quite often last week - maybe this was unexpected.

I hope they realise soon that Vardy is easily out jumping opposition ruckmen and we can use a few offensive set ups when he rucks.

 

[PremierCatAttack]

This. Time to unleash Jimmy back in the midfield.

shhh! scotty wants everyone to forget that he plays middle, until September...

 

[Goggin Our Best]

I really think we need more speed in the midfield . In saturdays game Rioli was electrifying on a few occasions when he took the ball out of the centre -beat 2 or 3 players with his pace -then straight down to Franklin-puts the defence under ernormous pressure . With 11 straight wins we can afford to experiment a bit . Iwould try Wojincski and Byrnes in there -and i would also like to Varcoe in at the centre square . I think Chapmans slowing down a bit - with injuries etc so maybe try Pods at CHF and Chapman at Full forward -Chapman is a very good mark and reliable kick and i dont think opposition backmen would be that comfortable with Chapman in the goal square.

 

[Vdubs]

I think it's time we gave Dawson Simpson a game in the ruck, and play / rest Ottens at FF this week. He is playing well in the VFL, and Ottens looked tired on Saturday.

Also think Milburn could miss again. Deep in the last/4 he appeared to strain a groin or hip, dut did run it out, but I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[kanyewest]

Clearly it's all about Jim! The guy is a clearance machine.

As others have pointed out, Chris Scott mentioned it may partly be due to rotations, and what I've seen at the game confirms this. Many times we've started at a bounce with one younger player or at least one smaller body. Rarely is there a combination of something like Bartel, Selwood, and Corey. This is not necessarily a bad thing because it means other players are getting experience (which they need) but eventually it will hurt us in the bigger games.

No doubt Ablett no longer playing for us has impacted it too. His ability to extract the ball from a pack was elite; no one else at our club can do it like him. It's amazing how little it is talked about, but his 30-odd possessions a week have not been replaced. I also don't think Chappy is dominating as much in the middle or at the contest, so hopefully we see a lift from him in the second half of the year.

In any case, this issue will certainly be on display in the coming weeks now that Selwood is out. How we deal with it only time will tell.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Certainly it's partly personnel because we're often putting Duncan Poodle etc in there, and Bartel etc often not being in there. It could also be partly because our new gamestyle is more aerobically demanding. That said, we are running out last quarters well so I think it's more than that. We certainly need to not have these gaps between our best and our worst in the clearance area, and we need to ensure teams can't get a run of goals against us, which they seem to be doing too easily at times. Hopefully we can find more consistency in this area between now and September, I have no doubt CS and the rest of the staff are acutely aware of it and working very hard to improve it.

 

[catman2006]

Bit of everything i would say, younger guys in the middle and players like Chapman and Bartel aren't playing 4 Q games they go missing for a half and play really well for a half, Ottens can't ruck full time even wrong set up at the bounce sometimes happens but as long as we keep practising those set up's all is good.

 

[Hinkley29]

Does this not also imply that when we do have our A-Grade mids onball, and when we are winning the clearances that we are killing teams? Otherwise, how the hell are we winning games when our forward half is not a strength either?

Conversely does this just mean that our defensive structures have been ridiculously good?

Or have we just been lucky?

BTW, I don't place much weight on luck.....

 

[Partridge]

Would love to see a list of the number of starts in centre contests for Geelong players this year. Doubt the Brownlow Medallist midfielder on the list would figure in the top six. Might not even make the top ten.

I've been wondering about this. He's so versatile and that's a great thing. But I dunno, I'd love to have him on the ball a bit more often. He still plays his best footy there.

 

[Berserker26]

Couple of things on this:

1 - Rotations through the mid-field. As has been said above, we're putting everyone through there. You should also notice that we're finishing harder than our opponents every week. I think this is related. Fresh legs all the time.

2 - Bartel/Chapman. Both playing predominately forward or back and we're winning games. Wait until the business end of the season when we throw these blokes into the mid-field. Look at Jimmy's game off half back against the bulldogs, he smashed it whilst also appearing to have a week off...good player management.