Mitch Thorp dumped

[TheMightyAchilles]

His obnoxious arrogance was well known going into the draft, so it's definitely not Hawthorn.



His problems extend well beyond his arrogance (although they do stem from it).
Hawthorn knew about his narcissism from day one and whilst they didn't necessarily like it, they tolerated it.
They didn't delist him and cost themselves $150k simply because he was arrogant.

think lawrence angwin.

he was talented

 

[OldStyle2007]

Yeah the records show he kicked 6 but can't confirm who he was on. BTW Harley kicked 4 behinds and the Cats 9.22 to go down to the Hawks that day. Still, we ended up winning the VFL premiership of course.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/round_info.cgi?a=MATCH;fixture=63266716;c=1-118-0-64559-0;pool=1

Cheers.
Harely kicked 4 points so must have got down the ground a bit on Thorp (assuming that was the match up)

Harley and Thorp both in the best list. Couldn't really say Thorp 'murdered' him then

Good to check these things out isn't it?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Mitch Thorp dumped by Hawthorn Football Club

Well, we've all seen the Hawthorn in your face arrogance of 08, and it was so good to see their great fall 09, so maybe its the club and not the kid.
OK, maybe he's got some maturing to do, but at Geelong its all about self control and self dignity.
It will be the making of him if he's got the goods, I'd like to see us with two Mitchells, both tall forwards.

Nah....he probably does have some talent but I don't want the discipline problems. And the prospect of maturing is all about attitude. So I'd much rather a guy who has the right attitude and just needs an opportunity (i.e. Drum) over a Thorpe anyday.

 

[Hinkley29]

Re: Mitch Thorp dumped by Hawthorn Football Club

Nah....he probably does have some talent but I don't want the discipline problems. And the prospect of maturing is all about attitude. So I'd much rather a guy who has the right attitude and just needs an opportunity (i.e. Drum) over a Thorpe anyday.

Thorpe may be a bad egg, but I am not so sure about Drum either.

There were plenty of posters on the Freo board who were not enamoured with Drum's attitude before he was traded. The consensus seemed to be that he did ok when he played in the AFL, but did not work nearly hard enough when he was dropped to the WAFL to deserve a recall.

Plus, why would anyone think that there would be more opportunities for Drum at Geelong than there were at Freo? This makes no sense to me.

Maybe getting back closer to family and a more familiar environment may help him make the most of his talent, but from what we have seen from Drum thus far in his career, I don't think you can say that he is "a guy who has the right attitude and just needs an opportunity".

I would love to be proven wrong, but I can see him having a short stay at KP.

 

[Scarlett Fever]

Everyone deserves a second chance and the kid is worth havin a chat to. Sounds like he needs to be broken down at brat camp and rebuilt again from the ground up. If he is willing to do this and shed some tears in the process then he may well be worth it...but we as outsiders will never know.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Mitch Thorp dumped by Hawthorn Football Club

Thorpe may be a bad egg, but I am not so sure about Drum either.

There were plenty of posters on the Freo board who were not enamoured with Drum's attitude before he was traded. The consensus seemed to be that he did ok when he played in the AFL, but did not work nearly hard enough when he was dropped to the WAFL to deserve a recall.

Plus, why would anyone think that there would be more opportunities for Drum at Geelong than there were at Freo? This makes no sense to me.

Maybe getting back closer to family and a more familiar environment may help him make the most of his talent, but from what we have seen from Drum thus far in his career, I don't think you can say that he is "a guy who has the right attitude and just needs an opportunity".

I would love to be proven wrong, but I can see him having a short stay at KP.

Well the proof will be in the pudding.

In my experience a lot of supporters quickly start bagging a player once he has traded out to help justify their own thinking that the decision was good, so I won't be paying too much credence to Freo supporters whacking Drum. Now if you could find me an outside source whacking Drum, then I might listen to that.

I will indulge your hypothetical however by saying if his attitude wasn't great, I could understand it. After all, while they might be great in the future, some of the kids Harvey played this year were in no way AFL standard, so Drum was in the position of knowing no matter how well he played, he'd never get an AFL spot, all because of that. Has to be de motivating. At least at the Cattery, he knows it's a fair selection (i.e. if you perform, you will get a game) and that if he does get overlooked, it will be for class, not skinny kids.

I base my views on his attitude in the interviews he's conducted since recently come in. Now yes, you would expect him to say the right things, but I think we have to take everyone at their word at least initially, so I am positive about his maturity and hunger. And in any case, I should point out that there is a gulf between a lack of motivation (Freo accusations) and arrogance and off field antics, which is Thorp. Given a choice between the two deficiencies, I know what I'd pick.

I should also point out that if the mail out of the club is to be believed, Harley and the other leaders were very keen to get Drum in. That helps me be more than willing to back him in.

 

[Jethro!]

Re: Mitch Thorp dumped by Hawthorn Football Club

i wouldn't want thorp in my ammos team

 

[Hinkley29]

Re: Mitch Thorp dumped by Hawthorn Football Club

Well the proof will be in the pudding.

In my experience a lot of supporters quickly start bagging a player once he has traded out to help justify their own thinking that the decision was good, so I won't be paying too much credence to Freo supporters whacking Drum. Now if you could find me an outside source whacking Drum, then I might listen to that.

As I stated in my original post, they were questioning his attitude BEFORE he was traded. I was just stating what I read, don't get all defensive now.

I will indulge your hypothetical however by saying if his attitude wasn't great, I could understand it. After all, while they might be great in the future, some of the kids Harvey played this year were in no way AFL standard, so Drum was in the position of knowing no matter how well he played, he'd never get an AFL spot, all because of that. Has to be de motivating. At least at the Cattery, he knows it's a fair selection (i.e. if you perform, you will get a game) and that if he does get overlooked, it will be for class, not skinny kids.

He is not exactly a veteran. He is 22 years old. Don't you think that if he showed anything, they would have played him to see if he could have been part of their future? He could conceivably have been a part of Freo's future for the next 10 years. The fact that Freo were "playing the kids" and he still couldn't get a game is a massive red flag for me. Him still being a kid and all.

I base my views on his attitude in the interviews he's conducted since recently come in. Now yes, you would expect him to say the right things, but I think we have to take everyone at their word at least initially, so I am positive about his maturity and hunger. And in any case, I should point out that there is a gulf between a lack of motivation (Freo accusations) and arrogance and off field antics, which is Thorp. Given a choice between the two deficiencies, I know what I'd pick.

I don't disagree, but that is not the point that you were making initially. You were saying that Drum had a fantastic attitude and just needed opportunity. Now I am no expert on the matter, but as an outside observer I see that his attitude is no sure thing, and he was in a situation where if he was any good he would have been given opportunities, but wasn't. All I am saying is that my expectations are low.

I should also point out that if the mail out of the club is to be believed, Harley and the other leaders were very keen to get Drum in. That helps me be more than willing to back him in.

As I also said in my original post, I am happy to be proven wrong. I hope that Marcus Drum turns into a superstar and that we can all laugh at another Freo ****-up. But I am not holding my breath.

 

[BlueOyster]

i think in the age yesterday it stated we arent going after j.smith so i would assume we wouldnt go for thorpe as well. thorpe would want more cash which we cant provide unless ford get there arse into gear and start handing out some ambassadorial monies...

 

[darren forssman]

Re: Mitch Thorp dumped by Hawthorn Football Club

In my experience a lot of supporters quickly start bagging a player once he has traded out to help justify their own thinking that the decision was good, so I won't be paying too much credence to Freo supporters whacking Drum. Now if you could find me an outside source whacking Drum, then I might listen to that.

true, but in one thread they were bagging him in july/august.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Mitch Thorp dumped by Hawthorn Football Club

As I stated in my original post, they were questioning his attitude BEFORE he was traded. I was just stating what I read, don't get all defensive now.

He is not exactly a veteran. He is 22 years old. Don't you think that if he showed anything, they would have played him to see if he could have been part of their future? He could conceivably have been a part of Freo's future for the next 10 years. The fact that Freo were "playing the kids" and he still couldn't get a game is a massive red flag for me. Him still being a kid and all.

I don't disagree, but that is not the point that you were making initially. You were saying that Drum had a fantastic attitude and just needed opportunity. Now I am no expert on the matter, but as an outside observer I see that his attitude is no sure thing, and he was in a situation where if he was any good he would have been given opportunities, but wasn't. All I am saying is that my expectations are low.

As I also said in my original post, I am happy to be proven wrong. I hope that Marcus Drum turns into a superstar and that we can all laugh at another Freo ****-up. But I am not holding my breath.

Actually I wasn't being defensive at all, I was merely pointing out why it wasn't particularly credible evidence of anything. If and when I ever get defensive, you shall know about it.
You're missing the point somewhat. Drum may turn out to be a gun. He may fail. Neither of us knows which is so or will be so and we won't know for some time.

He's not a kid. A kid is a first year player out of the TAC Cup. Harvey is doing what he must do in an era where the compromised drafts are about to come (considering the club's position) which is drafting kids and playing them to see what they're about. Particularly at Freo, where they've been screwed by years of crap drafting, the club will be patient with him if he plays kids and don't perform (that old word "potential" and "patience" but not if he plays 22 year olds and they don't perform), but if he plays 22 year olds and they don't perform, he won't last very long. So the fact that Drum is sitting in the WAFL doesn't mean much. The fact that a player doesn't play much at a club because of either list management, or because they don't rate him, doesn't mean he's a spud (Tommy at Port anyone? ) . I'll grant you it doesn't mean he's going to make it, but it doesn't mean he's a spud either.

By the way, the only games the played Drum in were after he made clear he was leaving (i.e. to try and show his trade worth) so I think that shows you where they were thinking.

The only point I was making is that if you look at attitude, among a number of other key areas, (and on what we know of both players right now) Drum deserves a spot on our list more than Thorp does. I stand by that opinion.
It doesn't mean Drum's going to make it, but it's one of my examples as to why I wouldn't be picking Thorp....which surprise surprise was the original thread topic.

 

[Glassjaw]

You want proof of Drum's bad attitude, just read his quotes. I read him saying he didn't deserve to be dropped to the WAFL and couldn't be bothered trying hard to play well when he was.

Pathetic attitude that the boys will be ripping out of him whilst trying to de-Freo him.

Thorp by all accounts though, seems to think he is/was the second coming. I just never liked him because he has an insanely punchable head.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

You want proof of Drum's bad attitude, just read his quotes. I read him saying he didn't deserve to be dropped to the WAFL and couldn't be bothered trying hard to play well when he was.

Pathetic attitude that the boys will be ripping out of him whilst trying to de-Freo him.

Thorp by all accounts though, seems to think he is/was the second coming. I just never liked him because he has an insanely punchable head.

Like I said previously...if you knew you'd never get selected in the senior team no matter what you did, then there's not much of an incentive to play well. I would wager my money that under different circumstances here, and like you say, with the boys de-freoing him, he can be turned around.

After all we use incentives and disincentives and the like everyday to influence human behaviour, from economics to just about everything else.

If on the other hand, someone thinks they're the second coming, that's just delusional. Can't fix that so easily

 

[Glassjaw]

You have to have a laugh really...

Thorp has played two games while Selwood has won two premierships from three Grand Final appearances, the NAB Rising Star award and been selected in the 2009 All-Australian team.
"The sad irony is that Mitch Thorp came to us uninjured and turned out to be plagued by injury, and Joel Selwood has hardly missed a beat," Hawthorn player personnel and strategy general manager Chris Pelchen lamented yesterday. "It shows clubs can get it wrong from time to time, and we got it wrong".

And this ripper...

One legendary tale of that confidence came in 2007 when he lined up in the VFL on Geelong captain Tom Harley, who was making his way back from injury. As the Cats veteran walked up to Thorp at the start of the game, the teen greeted him with: "I'm going to end your career today."
Ironically, Thorp's career at Hawthorn ended a week after Harley's, who, it's fair to say, was the one of that pair who managed to kick on from that day in the VFL.


http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26284784-5014669,00.html

 

[JUBJUB]

CatFan73 posted the link to the story in post 37

 

[pinion]

You have to have a laugh really...

Thorp has played two games while Selwood has won two premierships from three Grand Final appearances, the NAB Rising Star award and been selected in the 2009 All-Australian team.
"The sad irony is that Mitch Thorp came to us uninjured and turned out to be plagued by injury, and Joel Selwood has hardly missed a beat," Hawthorn player personnel and strategy general manager Chris Pelchen lamented yesterday. "It shows clubs can get it wrong from time to time, and we got it wrong".

And this ripper...

One legendary tale of that confidence came in 2007 when he lined up in the VFL on Geelong captain Tom Harley, who was making his way back from injury. As the Cats veteran walked up to Thorp at the start of the game, the teen greeted him with: "I'm going to end your career today."
Ironically, Thorp's career at Hawthorn ended a week after Harley's, who, it's fair to say, was the one of that pair who managed to kick on from that day in the VFL.


http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,26284784-5014669,00.html

another great mitch thorpe legendary moment involved campbell brown signing autographs after training one night and a fan asked him how mitch thorpe was going. brown laughed and said 'oh, he's ****ed'. the fan was a little taken aback and asked 'his body or his mind?' to which brown shrugged and said 'both'

on the selwood thing, people make a big deal about it, but it's a pretty rare thing for even the number 1 draft pick to turn out to be the best player in the draft

 

[Turbocat]

....As I also said in my original post, I am happy to be proven wrong. I hope that Marcus Drum turns into a superstar and that we can all laugh at another Freo ****-up. But I am not holding my breath.

H29 , I hear where you are coming from. In a perfect world one would like to hear the hype of how professional, how selfless etc a player is rather than one that sort of spat the dummy. Read about Selwood, about Scully and all your hear is the correct attitude married with talent.

Drum probably didn't have the ideal attitude but we do tend to forget that these kids are far from mature , they are learning life experience thru the eyes of a football club. This in itself is not normal but at Freo who can say what role models he observed at that club. I wonder as junior , how often did he have to work his way into a side, rather than be gifted a position because he was more talented. I suspect he didn't deal with that well and in this he is not alone even we have had players eg. Prismall that was not happy being in the 2nds went he played well enough to be in the A's

Plenty of players make a mistake or two and no matter how much good they do after that , they feel they are a branded player. Perhaps he felt pigeon holed, perhaps he actually was. Perhaps they expected more of a top 10 picks. Perhaps he would have been better severed by a more tradition club setup. Put it this way he would hardly be the first Freo player to under achieve.

Anyway , he now has a clean slate , he has a second chance and he is a slightly more mature player so hopefully he can make the most of it. In the end I don't think we need him to be a superstar , all he needs to do play his role. A bit like Ottens he has the chance to find himself again not by being a match winner but by playing the game as we expect it to be played.

 

[maximus steel]

id never take a hawthorn player, have some pride.
he is a handy player who i thought would be a good option for the western bulldogs or carlton, we dont need him with hawkins, brown and mooney. only if we went for a 3 key forward line. but who to drop?

 

[randyzany]

id never take a hawthorn player, have some pride.
he is a handy player who i thought would be a good option for the western bulldogs or carlton, we dont need him with hawkins, brown and mooney. only if we went for a 3 key forward line. but who to drop?

lol What's that got to do with anything? We snatched from their grubby little hands the greatest players to have played the game in Gary Ablett Snr didn't we?

The fact that they couldn't manage and control an exciting young prospect it's a sad indictment on them, nothing more nothing less. But by no means should anyone automatically assume our coaching staff will be as inept as the mayblooms in handling Thorp and failing to mould him into a professional footballer. I’m confident if Thorp arrived at Geelong we could successfully turn around his flagging career the same way we did with Stevie J.

 

[maximus steel]

lol What's that got to do with anything? We snatched from their grubby little hands the greatest players to have played the game in Gary Ablett Snr didn't we?

The fact that they couldn't manage and control an exciting young prospect it's a sad indictment on them, nothing more nothing less. But by no means should anyone automatically assume our coaching staff will be as inept as the mayblooms in handling Thorp and failing to mould him into a professional footballer. I’m confident if Thorp arrived at Geelong we could successfully turn around his flagging career the same way we did with Stevie J.

was a joke
just thought of a scary hypothetical, what if ablett snr hadnt been traded and the hawks got gazza and nathan, they probably wouldnt have recruited franklin because they went in the same year. saying that they wouldnt have been the superstars (well gaz anyway) if it wasnt for moda.

 

[Big Fozza]

id never take a hawthorn player, have some pride.
he is a handy player who i thought would be a good option for the western bulldogs or carlton, we dont need him with hawkins, brown and mooney. only if we went for a 3 key forward line. but who to drop?

realistically mooney could be gone in 2011 and it would be great to have another tall forward to push for selection/push the other guys to keep their spots.

i've been thinking about this a bit more and think it could be a great snag. someone will take him, be interesting to see who. i have no doubt that if he went to geelong we would be able to turn him around and that we wouldn't take him if we couldn't turn him around. anyway, it'll be interesting to see what happens...

 

[pinion]

id never take a hawthorn player, have some pride.
he is a handy player who i thought would be a good option for the western bulldogs or carlton, we dont need him with hawkins, brown and mooney. only if we went for a 3 key forward line. but who to drop?

so we're all just automatically thinking that brown will cut it? he has potential, but is raw, undersized, recovering from an injury that kept him out for most of last year, and could go either way. i remember back only a few years when we had lonergan, nathan ablett, playfair, gardiner and probably one or two more at various times (you could even include mackie, and even mooney took years of hits and misses), hoping that one would make it. none did. key forwards are like that, and you can never aford to have all your eggs in one basket.

it would have been nice to have thorpe doing his pre-season at geelong so we could get a better gauge of his attitude, but i say give the guy a physical and a psyche evaluation and if he passes both then pick him up, as he certainly has potential and wouldn't take much salary cap room.