More Physicality In '09

[cormick]

Lake>Thursfield
Williams>Moore/McGuane

Murphy>Reiwoldt

Richo at the end of the line.

As I said Bulldogs happy with Eade and Richmond still waiting for any finals appearance.

I do wish Richmond supporters all the best for 09 because success by Richmond does add to the competition overall. However, physical football IS NOT a strength of Tanned Terry and has not been for 10 years.

The fact you say Murphy is a KPP, and the fact Eade plays Hahn as a CHF would prove that you are lacking KPP.

Lake is better than Thursfield. I would pressume, without loking into it, that he was a Wallace draftee...
And Williams > Anyone is pretty laughable.
Has he played over 10 games yet?

 

[Bulldog Joe]

The fact you say Murphy is a KPP, and the fact Eade plays Hahn as a CHF would prove that you are lacking KPP.

Lake is better than Thursfield. I would pressume, without loking into it, that he was a Wallace draftee...
And Williams > Anyone is pretty laughable.
Has he played over 10 games yet?

Murphy is the lead up forward in a similar style to Nic Riewoldt and has been VERY successful at the role. He is considered undersized but he is taller than some who have been considered stars at CHF. Don't be confused by how teams are named in the paper.

Yes Lake was drafted in the Wallace era as a forward but has really come on under Eade.

Williams has already shown his talent and with a full season will prove a superstar.

 

[Tigerbob]

Murphy is the lead up forward in a similar style to Nic Riewoldt and has been VERY successful at the role. He is considered undersized but he is taller than some who have been considered stars at CHF. Don't be confused by how teams are named in the paper.

Yes Lake was drafted in the Wallace era as a forward but has really come on under Eade.

Williams has already shown his talent and with a full season will prove a superstar.

You have little clue and low IQ......

I don't like Wallace as much as the next bloke but wow some hurt still shows on some Dog supporters.

 

[sante]

Murphy is the lead up forward in a similar style to Nic Riewoldt and has been VERY successful at the role. He is considered undersized but he is taller than some who have been considered stars at CHF. Don't be confused by how teams are named in the paper.

Yes Lake was drafted in the Wallace era as a forward but has really come on under Eade.

Williams has already shown his talent and with a full season will prove a superstar.

So you base your opinions on who is the better player by talent shown in a few games, not the consistency shown at a high level like Moore and to a lesser extent, McGuane have shown.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

You have little clue and low IQ......

I don't like Wallace as much as the next bloke but wow some hurt still shows on some Dog supporters.

Think whatever you like but Bulldogs are better without Wallace.

 

[nut]

Think whatever you like but Bulldogs are better without Wallace.

Will see.....

 

[Sausage roll]

A couple of observations.

Players putting on b ulk doesnt make them any braver or tougher-refer Josh hunt. I just shake my head reading razor and others salivating over tambling putting on weight and getting all moist.

After reading all the comments re hardness etc, I still can't get over the fact that it took two embarassing losses this year( north, Coll) for wallace to draw a line in the sand over tackling and actually start to drop guys for lack of tackling.
It took till his fourth year to work out how important tackling is?

He only got serious about it when he realised his job may have been on the line. To allow petrified to play year after year and not tackle or risk his body, was simply a disgrace. They finally woke up( why is he still on the list??)

I tend to agree that Terry doesnt breed tough teams.

 

[deliberate!!]

A couple of observations.

Players putting on bulk doesnt make them any braver or tougher-refer Josh hunt. I just shake my head reading razor and others salivating over tambling putting on weight and getting all moist.

After reading all the comments re hardness etc, I still can't get over the fact that it took two embarassing losses this year( north, Coll) for wallace to draw a line in the sand over tackling and actually start to drop guys for lack of tackling.
It took till his fourth year to work out how important tackling is?

He only got serious about it when he realised his job may have been on the line. To allow petrified to play year after year and not tackle or risk his body, was simply a disgrace. They finally woke up( why is he still on the list??)

I tend to agree that Terry doesnt breed tough teams.

But Sauss,
that does now mean that a heavier Tambling can now wander aimlessly around the ground with a few more ripples, turn the ball over with shiny biceps, and 'downhill ski' with more meat on his bones!
(And not to mention, now having the ability to fight off his own shadow)

I'm so glad Bling has put on more weight & size.
Cause some of the dudes have been telling me it's Tambling's 'Break Out Year' for eons now. Fingers crossed. Is it this year to those that keep believing?

Maybe now with the extra muscle he can break out of the 'wet paper bag' he's created for himself with all manner of excuses.

2009, The Year of NO Wucking Excuses.
(If you're soft, timid, slow, lazy, selfish, stupid, beaten by your opponent regularly, or don't step up in 2009....then you should be long marched off a short pier)

 

[waiting since 80]

2009, The Year of NO Wucking Excuses.
(If you're soft, timid, slow, lazy, selfish, stupid, beaten by your opponent regularly, or don't step up in 2009....then you should be long marched off a short pier)[/quote]

Well said
That should also include the coach and his assistants.... There is absolutely no reason why we wont take part in September 09!


_____________________________________________
The screen door slams... mary's dress sways...

 

[THE_GUN]

[URL="
tambling has improved every year, people doubting his ability go back and watch some of the games in 2008 carefully he is nowhere near as bad as some of you guys make out.
if it wasnt for this buddy/bling comparrisons he would have no problems
2003 draft which included walker for carlton & cooney as 1 & 2 picks
untill 2008 cooney was very similar to tambling hot/cold eventually got his body/confidence ok and now his a gun.
andrew walker............i.ll take bling anyday
the guy just turned 22 guys show some confidence
he will never be buddy we know that but he will be in our top 7-8 b and f
by the end of 2009 and then on.

 

[Tigerballs]

If you take a look at Tambling from the recent training session pics, you'll notice he's bulked up heaps. Hopefully players such as Polo, Mcguane, Edwards, Thursfield etc come back with an extra 5kg of bulk. Thursty and Mcguane were listed at about 86kg last season, but probably need to be at least 90kg at 191cm of height, so they don't get outmuscled. Polo was about 83kg, but should be closer to 88kg at 187cm height. Players tend to become more physical and courageous with experience also

I think Edwards needs about another 20kg of bulk not 5

 

[Madtiger2006]

A couple of observations.

Players putting on b ulk doesnt make them any braver or tougher-refer Josh hunt. I just shake my head reading razor and others salivating over tambling putting on weight and getting all moist.

After reading all the comments re hardness etc, I still can't get over the fact that it took two embarassing losses this year( north, Coll) for wallace to draw a line in the sand over tackling and actually start to drop guys for lack of tackling.
It took till his fourth year to work out how important tackling is?

He only got serious about it when he realised his job may have been on the line. To allow petrified to play year after year and not tackle or risk his body, was simply a disgrace. They finally woke up( why is he still on the list??)

I tend to agree that Terry doesnt breed tough teams.

you ever heard of breaking tackles?

 

[Sausage roll]

Ok, let the snag clear up a few things.

I am not bagging Tambling as a player he was merely used as an exmple of someone razor and co are salivating over because they have put on a few kgs and they will be "more physical"( hence the title fo the thread.

I was making the point it doesnt make you braver or more phsical.
Yes, you may be able to stand up a few more tackles but it doesnt make you braver of more physical-refer josh hunt. The guy is built like Tarzan and is terified

 

[Rayzorwire]

A couple of observations.

Players putting on b ulk doesnt make them any braver or tougher-refer Josh hunt. I just shake my head reading razor and others salivating over tambling putting on weight and getting all moist.

The entire point was that we have a number of players ready to physically peak - the first of the Wallace era draftees and those who hadn't really played seniors yet when he took over. Tambling was brought up by MT and I merely agreed that he looked bigger and would probably play midfield more this season. I mentioned a number of players in the OP as examples and Tambling wasn't one of them.

As for added weight making players braver/tougher, of course it does help a bit. A bigger and stronger physique gives them more confidence in the contests and allows them to play games right out instead of fading in and out and being easily pushed aside once they tire. The experience of giving and getting tackles, hits, blocks etc at the top level is also a confidence booster.

Draftees shouldn't be expected to be instant AFL players, it takes time and in some cases, a fair bit of patience.

After reading all the comments re hardness etc, I still can't get over the fact that it took two embarassing losses this year( north, Coll) for wallace to draw a line in the sand over tackling and actually start to drop guys for lack of tackling.
It took till his fourth year to work out how important tackling is?

It was four years before he had enough depth to actually be able to drop players. The first two years we had to play the Tivendale's and Hyde's (and worse) because we had nobody else, '07 we were hammered by injuries and playing the likes of Howat.

You can't drop players if you have nobody but juniors who are barely coping at Coburg to replace them with.

I tend to agree that Terry doesnt breed tough teams.

You tend to be wrong a lot.

 

[CoggaRules]

If it comes off of course ... the recruitment of Thomsom and hislop is a masterstroke . Two ready made "youthful" midfielders with hard edges ... apprentiships near completed , same age as our developings young tiro`s , at very near on zero cost .

People speak of Miller at trade weak as some sort of guru who really shone during this period , but i`m not so sure ... you can bet your bottom dollar he would have been running around doing all he could to get Kerr to Punt rd. but instead we sat back and used our heads and thought about what we could do to improve and enhance our list for the long term .

We , and Wallace , cop flak for being a team of outside flankers of the bantamweight class but what the short sighted don`t care to factor is the fact that you don`t draft a kid of 17-18 ..stick him in the gym for 3 months and trot out a "Mick Conlan" in February . IT takes 3-4 years of careful and considered development to get the right "AFL" body and with the amount of young blokes that have bought to the club over the last three or four years we are about to enter into that period where we will start to see the rewards for "patience" .

The recruiting of Hislop and Thomson adds two more midfielders to our group who are about to enter that window and if they can actually prove to be good footballers for us this is going to pay huge dividends for us for our hardness , rotations and depth ... the other spin off was this allowed us to go "tall" with our prime draft picks which we desperately needed to do

Don`t want to get too carried away but i rate this strategy we took this year as potentially the biggest thing since we off-loaded Hogg for Gale/Broderick

this is what i suggest where we will go up a few rungs if they produce the goods. Its all about having the cattle to be able to put the B or C mids into the middle, for the A mids to rest, and the B and C mids can actually hold the fort, i.e. protect the lead, or dont lose ground to a deficit, so the A team can come in refreshed and either put the nails in the coffin, or pull us back to the lead.
For to long the gap between our best and second best has been to great. The number 1 or 2 or even 3 midfield of a top opposition would murder our no 2 midfield...so to stem the blood flow, in would go our number 1 mids without the nessecary rest and we were toast, because the opposition would send in their rested no 1 midfield and sever our jugular., by cutting up our tired and getting more tired, best.

 

[a_fighting_fury]

Great thread, helped along by some well-reasoned posts by Rayzor! I reckon theres a lot we dont know of what happens at the club behind the scenes, and then we try to make decisions for the club & coach here on BF with only half the info! Players are dropped or retained by the club based on ALL the info on hand. And there's no doubt that our best 22 now need to take the next step to be more aggressive and tackle every time and be more physical in '09 as they continue to develop mass and improve their skills and team-work over the last season!

 

[CoggaRules]

Great thread, helped along by some well-reasoned posts by Rayzor! I reckon theres a lot we dont know of what happens at the club behind the scenes, and then we try to make decisions for the club & coach here on BF with only half the info! Players are dropped or retained by the club based on ALL the info on hand. And there's no doubt that our best 22 now need to take the next step to be more aggressive and tackle every time and be more physical in '09 as they continue to develop mass and improve their skills and team-work over the last season!

Tipping TW is following a successful formula, followed by Sir Alex Ferguson at Man U. Its all about teaching a "system" to the whole list over time. That way introducing a new face into the seniors from the 2s, doesnt break the system.
Rance is a good example, in his interview he suggested that he played a certain way throughout his junior career and that showed off his skills that got him drafted. But TW wanted him to play TW's way and he had to be re-educated and it was tough, mistakes etc, but he is now in the loop.

 

[Sausage roll]

The entire point was that we have a number of players ready to physically peak - the first of the Wallace era draftees and those who hadn't really played seniors yet when he took over. Tambling was brought up by MT and I merely agreed that he looked bigger and would probably play midfield more this season. I mentioned a number of players in the OP as examples and Tambling wasn't one of them.

As for added weight making players braver/tougher, of course it does help a bit. A bigger and stronger physique gives them more confidence in the contests and allows them to play games right out instead of fading in and out and being easily pushed aside once they tire. The experience of giving and getting tackles, hits, blocks etc at the top level is also a confidence booster.

Draftees shouldn't be expected to be instant AFL players, it takes time and in some cases, a fair bit of patience.




It was four years before he had enough depth to actually be able to drop players. The first two years we had to play the Tivendale's and Hyde's (and worse) because we had nobody else, '07 we were hammered by injuries and playing the likes of Howat.

You can't drop players if you have nobody but juniors who are barely coping at Coburg to replace them with.



You tend to be wrong a lot.

Oh dear, oh dear. Poor old razor.
Obviously you haven't played with or coached guys who aren't brave if you think putting on wieght makes them braver/tougher.

Tackling isn't a test of your bravery or toughness. There is often very little risk to your personal safety involved in tackling. Bravery/ Toughness is goign in wehn you think/know you might get hurt. IT is totoally unrelated to tackling. Again, i refer josh hunt. Built like an ox but is terrified. Has his bulk made him any tougher/braver?? NO.
It may have enabled him to break tackles, have more confidnece
(perhaps) or even play better but that is not the argument. My original point was it doesn't make you any braver or tougher.

You can't drop players if you have nobody but juniors who are barely coping at Coburg to replace them with.

He could have brought in any kid who was prepared to tackle to make a statement. Surely Coburg didn't have 22 kids who all didn't tackle?? Given we were losing anyway in previous year, why not make the tackling statement earlier? Wasn't Bowden dropped during lean years and it turned his form completely around?

We have heard from the bulldog supporter what they think of Terry and whether or not his teams are tough...They agree with me not you!!

 

[mhill]

I mainly agree with the OP but there is a hell of a lot riding on this working for us in 2009.

Just finished watching the game vs Bulldogs from round 4 (I think).

4 things stood out:-

1. Making our tackles stick throughout the game was a problem - more strength will help guys like Tambling, McGuane and Edwards, all who were brushed aside by bigger opponents
2. Turning the ball over at critical times and executing skills under pressure, we need to work on this over the summer - both the guy with it and players protecting the ball carrier.
3. We are an exceptionally quick and hard running side - it will win us plenty of games
4. Our clearance work was actually pretty good - as it was for most of the season. The main thing we have lacked is real depth in our rotations where Thompson, Cousins and Hislop should make a real difference.

Finally, we need to develop the mental toughness to be resolute when the opposition are swarming all over us. We blew a 19 point lead with just 3 minutes of playing time and we had possession in our forward half with less than 90 seconds to go.

We also went to water against the Roos and the Pies when we had possession and they turned up the heat.

Tambling, Edwards, McGuane etc etc being strong and fit is one thing, it is about them having the confidence and strength of mind to apply themselves for 100 minutes.

That will make the difference next year.

And to me, that is the coaching teams job over summer.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Oh dear, oh dear. Poor old razor.
Obviously you haven't played with or coached guys who aren't brave if you think putting on wieght makes them braver/tougher.

On the contrary, I played football against adults before I was a teenager. I never shirked a contest when it was my turn to go, but I certainly didn't recklessly throw my body underneath packs full of men 3-4 times my weight, or try to lay hip and shoulders, or dive and smother full blooded kicks, or shepherd someone who would have run over me like a freight train while the umpire was following the ball. I would have weighed 40kg dripping wet at the time and I found out the hard way that if you don't protect yourself you go to hospital - I had more injuries than I can be bothered listing. The bottom line when you're that size is that you're not much use to your team if you're out for weeks.

The older I got the less I needed to protect myself and play smart, because I was big enough to physically compete on an equal footing. Works exactly the same way with draftees who lack the weight, strength, speed and experience to lock horns with a mature AFL footballer.

Tackling isn't a test of your bravery or toughness. There is often very little risk to your personal safety involved in tackling.

Bravery/ Toughness is goign in wehn you think/know you might get hurt. IT is totoally unrelated to tackling.

Can you quote the part where I mentioned tackling?

What's that? I didn't? Well how about that eh? This wouldn't be yet another example of you wholesale inventing what someone has said would it?

It seems the only way you can win a debate is to debate yourself.

He could have brought in any kid who was prepared to tackle to make a statement.

He has done that every year - played kids who weren't physically ready ahead of seniors who couldn't meet expectations in enough areas - tackling included.

We have heard from the bulldog supporter what they think of Terry and whether or not his teams are tough...They agree with me not you!!

LMAO...can you come back with an ally from the Carlton board too...for the ultimate credibility?

 

[Sausage roll]

The experience of giving and getting tackles, hits, blocks etc at the top level is also a confidence booster.


Well, there is the quote you asked for Razyor where you mentioned tackling. This was in the context of a paragraph about putting on weight, the exact point I was making that it doesnt make you any braver or tougher.

You played football agianst adults beofre you were a teenager? What wehn you were 12 you were playing aginst adults??

There were either very short of number or you were a gun!!

 

[Rayzorwire]

The experience of giving and getting tackles, hits, blocks etc at the top level is also a confidence booster.


Well, there is the quote you asked for Razyor where you mentioned tackling. This was in the context of a paragraph about putting on weight, the exact point I was making that it doesnt make you any braver or tougher.

And you'll note that it referred to experience, not bravery, toughness, or anything else you want to drag into it.

You played football agianst adults beofre you were a teenager? What wehn you were 12 you were playing aginst adults??

There were either very short of number or you were a gun!!

Mostly the former, but the fact I could actually kick a footy from point A to B successfully put me ahead of a lot of bigger blokes. Happens all the time in the country, I was playing cricket against men at the same age.

 

[Sausage roll]

And you'll note that it referred to experience, not bravery, toughness, or anything else you want to drag into it.


Yes, but you challenged me to show you where you even mentioned tackling ? Remember? Here is your quote in case you have forgotten.

Can you quote the part where I mentioned tackling?

What's that? I didn't? Well how about that eh?


SO I showed you where you mentioned it. {points therefore awarded to the snag!!).
If you are going to be sarcastic, get your facts straight. you did mention it!!

It was mentioned in the context of putting on weight and somehow making players more physical, which is utter bunkum.

Refer josh hunt, who you have now ignored three times as a prime example of an adonis who is terrified.
The defence rests for the snag!!

 

[cormick]

And you'll note that it referred to experience, not bravery, toughness, or anything else you want to drag into it.


Yes, but you challenged me to show you where you even mentioned tackling ? Remember? Here is your quote in case you have forgotten.

Can you quote the part where I mentioned tackling?

What's that? I didn't? Well how about that eh?


SO I showed you where you mentioned it. {points therefore awarded to the snag!!).
If you are going to be sarcastic, get your facts straight. you did mention it!!

It was mentioned in the context of putting on weight and somehow making players more physical, which is utter bunkum.

Refer josh hunt, who you have now ignored three times as a prime example of an adonis who is terrified.
The defence rests for the snag!!

You're right in that Razor mentioned tackling, and that Josh Hunt looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane, but you're forgetting Tambling has always had balls. With increased size, rather than just backing into packs (Exhibit A, vs Brisbane this year against J Brown), Tambling will be able to hurt opposition rather than just get himself hurt.

 

[deliberate!!]

You're right in that Razor mentioned tackling, and that Josh Hunt looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane, but you're forgetting Tambling has always had balls. With increased size, rather than just backing into packs (Exhibit A, vs Brisbane this year against J Brown), Tambling will be able to hurt opposition rather than just get himself hurt.

Tambling could be built like Mr.Universe and he'd still get swatted away from a pack. It's his mindset.

If Tambling's caught in the middle of traffic, he has no opposition but to try and weave his way out. (Like any player would!)
If Tambling's two wide up against a pack, there's no way ever he'll get to the ball. He doesn't have the presence of mind to become a presence. All around the pack treat him like a fly to be swatted away. And he acts like the secondary hyena at a feedy frenzy. Everyone keeps him out, everyone ignores him.

Balls! 90% of guys move backwards into packs because it's expected of them or they have no choice. Some cats take short steps and make sure they fall short of actually having to back into a player or the pack.

Before you praise Tambling about him exerting himself last year in any situation, I'd worry about us clearing up his major flaw where he shits himself at the end of a string of passes, freezes, or stupidily tries to take on an opposition when there is no need to.

And while you praise Tambling's balls at backing back into packs, sometimes it takes more balls to make the right decision over and over again. He needs to work at correcting that first, before even thinking of muscle/weight/bulk or bravery.