Current murder of Melbourne comedian Eurydice Dixon after body found in park

Snake_Baker

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Choices have consequences.
We are emotionally unstable, violent animals living in close proximity without familial or social ties.
The choice of language by me here has to be very careful otherwise my entire point can be dismissed on grounds of one sentence appearing to blame a victim.
As long as there is a need for prison, there won't be free and safe communities for people to move about at all hours of the day and night.
There are predators out there. There is evil in the darkness and it knows what it does is wrong, but it will still do it. You need to be smart enough to outwit it, you know it targets solitary women in dark places.

Don't treat men like they are the problem. Men are human. Monsters aren't.
Try telling this to the Utopian morons with their heads stuck in the sand.

Go ahead utopian warriors, run the risks and see how far "girl power" gets you if you get stuck in a jamb.
 

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owen87

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What's wrong with calling it out if you see the behaviour? That could go quite some way to making change. Nobody's asking for your testicles. :eek:
Nothing wrong with calling out shit behaviour; male or female. Same as there's nothing wrong with telling people to be aware of their surroundings and avoid risky situations.

Something might be wrong with this relentless circling back to blame men for the monsters in society, whilst telling women they should be free to walk down any dark alleys they like.

One is a practical response, the other a fairy-tale.
 

owen87

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By 'calling it out' I don't mean by shaming all over social media and trying to make it go viral. Not sure how I feel about that, another discussion maybe. I mean, it can be done quietly 'thats not cool' whatever. A little nudge in the right direction.
I disagree with this world of social shaming; it's just vigilante justice in the internet age.

If your friends or family behave like pricks, tell them, simple.
 

bigfarter

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What if, and hear me out, instead of saying to all women "You can't go out alone at when it's dark" (5pm -7am currently) why don't we instead fit all men with cushions around their hands so they can't punch and concrete around their crotch so they can't rape? I mean, if we're going to give up trying to improve upon society's ills and just tell a whole section of people what they can/can't do, shouldn't it be the ones most likely to perpetrate that suffer the consequences?
 

Snake_Baker

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What if, and hear me out, instead of saying to all women "You can't go out alone at when it's dark" (5pm -7am currently) why don't we instead fit all men with cushions around their hands so they can't punch and concrete around their crotch so they can't rape? I mean, if we're going to give up trying to improve upon society's ills and just tell a whole section of people what they can/can't do, shouldn't it be the ones most likely to perpetrate that suffer the consequences?
Okay, and what about the women that kill kids? Sterilize the entire gender?

People like you would rather be righteous & dead, than sensible & alive.
 

shellyg

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What if, and hear me out, instead of saying to all women "You can't go out alone at when it's dark" (5pm -7am currently) why don't we instead fit all men with cushions around their hands so they can't punch and concrete around their crotch so they can't rape? I mean, if we're going to give up trying to improve upon society's ills and just tell a whole section of people what they can/can't do, shouldn't it be the ones most likely to perpetrate that suffer the consequences?
How about a curfew, it would only last a week and every rapist in Australia ... well they're just not gonna make it.
 

bigfarter

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Okay, and what about the women that kill kids? Sterilize the entire gender?

People like you would rather be righteous & dead, than sensible & alive.
Don't "people like me" this, Snake. We were having a reasonable debate so please don't go personal and trolly. I was merely illustrating a point: if it's fair to tell ALL women they have to change their behaviours to keep safe why is it unfair to tell all men the same? My example was obviously extreme and silly but I wanted some of the posters here to feel what a woman does when told they have to change what they do - it's not fun, is it? I've said before I don't think there are easy answers and if you go through the thread I wasn't outraged at the police response (even if I felt it was maybe poorly worded) but I think there's more we can do, more we can discuss than simply shrugging and saying "Too hard, women stay in at night or get a bodyguard." That seems defeatist, lazy and even cowardly to me. Be aware of risks of course but that shouldn't be the end of the conversation. Now can we discuss this civilly?
 

Snake_Baker

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I'd rather it was discussed intelligently.

I don't have much time for pie in the sky grandstanding when it deflects from addressing the actual issue of saving lives.

Do you think the notion of "rape/murder is bad" is something that has just arisen since "the 1950's"?
 

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GreyCrow

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I'd rather it was discussed intelligently.

I don't have much time for pie in the sky grandstanding when it deflects from addressing the actual issue of saving lives.
why not both though? You have focused on one side of the argument when the other is equally valid. Pie in the sky v head up arse
 

Taylor

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Okay, then simple question: why is it okay to tell all women to modify their behaviour but not okay to tell men the same?
Because one is a control against the uncontrollable.

Women have the power to not put themselves in a position to be vulnerable to the whim of an uncontrolled immoral person.

Men who would be that immoral and uncontrolled person don't care what you tell them. Society isn't exactly unclear on where it stands regarding murder and rape but they still happen because the people who do it don't care about what they've been told.
 

Snake_Baker

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Because one is a control against the uncontrollable.

Women have the power to not put themselves in a position to be vulnerable to the whim of an uncontrolled immoral person.

Men who would be that immoral and uncontrolled person don't care what you tell them. Society isn't exactly unclear on where it stands regarding murder and rape but they still happen because the people who do it don't care about what they've been told.

Surely a candlelight vigil could fix all that?

How about some social engineering on bigfooty.com?
 

shellyg

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I disagree with this world of social shaming; it's just vigilante justice in the internet age.

If your friends or family behave like pricks, tell them, simple.
Part of the reason why I don't identify with the leading crop of leftist feminists. Abuse of power among other things in social shaming and in particular, getting people fired.
 

Run n Spread

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Personally I have literally walked that route 100 + times.

But whatever anyone thinks that should never happen to anyone.
 

bigfarter

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I don't have much time for pie in the sky grandstanding when it deflects from addressing the actual issue of saving lives.

Do you think the notion of "rape/murder is bad" is something that has just arisen since "the 1950's"?
Firstly, your quotation marks imply I brought up the 1950s, which I didn't. Please engage me on the things I say, not what others say. Secondly, how is it "pie in the sky grandstanding" to suggest there are further discussions and actions to be had in trying to curb violence, even just a little bit? I'm not saying we can make all psychos disappear or make all people safe at all times but surely it's worth continuing to try and find ways to minimise these events going forward? Acknowledging that people are responsible for personal risk assessment is all well and good but if we leave it there then we're just resigning ourselves to never making anything better. Surely there are OTHER ideas we can discuss in concert with risk assessment, rather than just saying "Women, stay outta the dark and don't leave home without a bodyguard" and acting like that's all we can do?
 

bigfarter

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Personally I have literally walked that route 100 + times.

But whatever anyone thinks that should never happen to anyone.
It's interesting that when guys are king hit and killed at pubs or nightclubs, forums aren't full of people saying "Well what did he expect, going to a place where there's a bunch of drunk men? If he wanted to stay safe, he should have worn a helmet at such a place!"

And before anyone jumps in, that's not directed at anyone as an attack - it's just an observation over the years of how different incidents get different treatment.
 

Snake_Baker

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......... how is it "pie in the sky grandstanding" to suggest there are further discussions and actions to be had in trying to curb violence, even just a little bit?

I'm not saying we can make all psychos disappear or make all people safe at all times but surely it's worth continuing to try and find ways to minimise these events going forward?

Surely there are OTHER ideas we can discuss in concert with risk assessment, rather than just saying "Women, stay outta the dark and don't leave home without a bodyguard" and acting like that's all we can do?
Because it's not going to do a thing, as Taylor has already pointed out. This is an ugly primal aspect of certain males. This isn't a societal issue, it's a perverse outlier, but it's common enough for women to take heed.

Acknowledging that people are responsible for personal risk assessment is all well and good but if we leave it there then we're just resigning ourselves to never making anything better. Surely there are OTHER ideas we can discuss in concert with risk assessment, rather than just saying "Women, stay outta the dark and don't leave home without a bodyguard" and acting like that's all we can do?
Discuss all you like, just don't expect me to ignore the tragic realities. As for the "bodyguard" quip, now you're the one making absurd extrapolations.
 

bigfarter

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Surely a candlelight vigil could fix all that?
I'm a bit baffled by some people's apparent offense at the vigil. I don't really get why anybody would get upset about a community coming together and grieving and trying to help one another in a time of pain. Sure, it may not achieve much in terms of changing the world but if it makes people feel better in a rough time then isn't that enough? I work with several friends of Eurydice and they all found it very helpful to know that they had so many people sharing in the hurt and wanting to help.
 

Snake_Baker

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I'm a bit baffled by some people's apparent offense at the vigil. I don't really get why anybody would get upset about a community coming together and grieving and trying to help one another in a time of pain. Sure, it may not achieve much in terms of changing the world but if it makes people feel better in a rough time then isn't that enough? I work with several friends of Eurydice and they all found it very helpful to know that they had so many people sharing in the hurt and wanting to help.
It was also political in nature, you're either being disingenuous or just plain ignorant if you think otherwise, and it was a pointless act from a political perspective. In fact, it's potentially dangerous..
 

Run n Spread

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It was also political in nature, you're either being disingenuous or just plain ignorant if you think otherwise, and it was a pointless act from a political perspective. In fact, it's potentially dangerous..
Nope was a spontaneous action from those who were genuinely upset.
 

bigfarter

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Because it's not going to do a thing, as Taylor has already pointed out. This is an ugly primal aspect of certain males. This isn't a societal issue, it's a perverse outlier, but it's common enough for women to take heed.



Discuss all you like, just don't expect me to ignore the tragic realities. As for the "bodyguard" quip, now you're the one making absurd extrapolations.
All righty. I guess I'll leave it in terms of this discussion as we seem at an impasse. I'm not expecting you to ignore realities (though I reckon you could occasionally word them a bit more sensitively - some of the "She's dead because she..." stuff did come across very victim-blamey, whether that was the intention or not) but I do believe there's more we can do, whether it be through our personal behaviours in talking to women, talking to other men, raising our sons and daughters, that can make a difference - even if it's small - over time. I agree that the monsters will never go away and we need to be mindful of them but I think we can tackle the problem from multiple angles rather than simply demanding the (would-be) victims take all the onus on themselves. Obviously there will always be people that are too far gone or too damaged to be set on the right course but I also believe that there are many, especially young people, that can have their attitudes changed if the adults above them lead the way. Anyway, that's my piece. I think we both want to get to the same destination: as few creeps hurting people as possible but we may just disagree on what can be done about it. That's fine.

EDIT TO ADD:
It was also political in nature, you're either being disingenuous or just plain ignorant if you think otherwise, and it was a pointless act from a political perspective. In fact, it's potentially dangerous..
Politicians made it political but the event itself was organised beforehand, without their input. Politicians will always make things about themselves because they are parasites but I don't think it's fair to ignore the genuine community element or to mock it with scorn. Real people were really hurting and the vigil really helped them. What the politicians did alongside that is annoying but is beside the point to the healing and memorialising aspect, as was initially intended. Nobody actually spoke at the vigil, such was the request that it NOT be political but instead a moment of mourning and reflection.
 

Iworkthecircus

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Nothing wrong with calling out shit behaviour; male or female. Same as there's nothing wrong with telling people to be aware of their surroundings and avoid risky situations.

Something might be wrong with this relentless circling back to blame men for the monsters in society, whilst telling women they should be free to walk down any dark alleys they like.

One is a practical response, the other a fairy-tale.
All righty. I guess I'll leave it in terms of this discussion as we seem at an impasse. I'm not expecting you to ignore realities (though I reckon you could occasionally word them a bit more sensitively - some of the "She's dead because she..." stuff did come across very victim-blamey, whether that was the intention or not) but I do believe there's more we can do, whether it be through our personal behaviours in talking to women, talking to other men, raising our sons and daughters, that can make a difference - even if it's small - over time. I agree that the monsters will never go away and we need to be mindful of them but I think we can tackle the problem from multiple angles rather than simply demanding the (would-be) victims take all the onus on themselves. Obviously there will always be people that are too far gone or too damaged to be set on the right course but I also believe that there are many, especially young people, that can have their attitudes changed if the adults above them lead the way. Anyway, that's my piece. I think we both want to get to the same destination: as few creeps hurting people as possible but we may just disagree on what can be done about it. That's fine.

EDIT TO ADD:


Politicians made it political but the event itself was organised beforehand, without their input. Politicians will always make things about themselves because they are parasites but I don't think it's fair to ignore the genuine community element or to mock it with scorn. Real people were really hurting and the vigil really helped them. What the politicians did alongside that is annoying but is beside the point to the healing and memorialising aspect, as was initially intended. Nobody actually spoke at the vigil, such was the request that it NOT be political but instead a moment of mourning and reflection.

When you talking about a political organisation jumping on the death. I'll try to engage you in some actual interesting conversation .


After seeing the comedian deface the memorial , do you think this crime could of been premeditated? If you read between the lines here was there a objective here ?
Did someone egg on mr princess park rapist ?
If you look at the retort of the defacer properly there is some interesting room for discussion , I won't take you down the worm hole of male vs female saga .

Cheers
Iworkthecircus
 

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