Murray Newman

[6285sutto]

This kind of thing disturbs me, there are a thousand kids out there more deserving of an AFL career than Newman now waiting to get their chance..don't have a criminal charge. This whole player obsession thing is some kind of disease, if a rookie or 1st year player doesn't have what it takes then move them on, we aren't a freaking charity organization trying to help out troubled kids we a Football club or were last time I looked.

As far as I am concerned there arn't exactly "thousands of kids" out there with half as much skill as Newman, let alone already on our list. The fact that we used our first round draft pick on him suggests that the club for one rated him pretty highly.

I agree that his off field management isn't that great and if he doesn't pull his shit together in the future I would not be surprised to see the club let him go. I'd be perfectly fine with that. I think that we should maybe draft another pocket player this year with one of our later picks, 43 or 49 as a security measure IF Newman stuffs up in the future or has to be let go if judged guilty.

Until then I see it as a massive waste of talent to let go from a draft which didn't do much for us.

 

[Chris_6678]

We also happen to be a business that has to make wise decisions/investments to ensure our future and an important factor in that equation is that we invest in quality people. We are not a welfare organization that is responsible for teaching people social skills. Newman has proven to be a very poor investment thus far even before he is judged in a court of law where I am confident he will be found guilty and almost certainly become a guest of the prison system.
I have no doubt that the Club has been given this advice and that is why they have delisted him. Personally, I don't believe he deserves any further consideration by the Club and they should wash their hands of him.
Your opening sentence beggars belief, how would you possibly know how many more deserving kids there are out there than Newman?

I don't agree with your opinion on Newman. West Coast's culture was one of the worst back in the day and after 7 years we are up to scratch. Yes what Newman did was 100% wrong and deserves punishment but he is young and only 19! everyone deserves a 2nd chance.

You say West Coast should not be teaching social skills? look at what happened last time we left players run amok with no guidance! To have a strong culture they should be shaping these kids to become good role models along with their football career it goes part and parcel with success. From what i have heard Woosha was very keen to set Newman back on the right path and applaud Simpson for stating Newman has a clean state with him.

From a business point of view they did the right thing in delisting him with goal of putting him on the rookie list while getting paid his last year of contract. By giving Newman this support i really hope he proves people wrong and become the player they hope he will become.

 

[LordHaart]

We also happen to be a business that has to make wise decisions/investments to ensure our future and an important factor in that equation is that we invest in quality people. We are not a welfare organization that is responsible for teaching people social skills. Newman has proven to be a very poor investment thus far even before he is judged in a court of law where I am confident he will be found guilty and almost certainly become a guest of the prison system.
I have no doubt that the Club has been given this advice and that is why they have delisted him. Personally, I don't believe he deserves any further consideration by the Club and they should wash their hands of him.
Your opening sentence beggars belief, how would you possibly know how many more deserving kids there are out there than Newman?

I was being somewhat sardonic in order to mimic JTN's tone. If you actually read my post though I was saying that Newman is very talented, and relatively few out of the available players out there would have better skillsets. The club obviously believes that if this talent can be applied he'll be a great asset to the team. "Deserving" is a matter of both effort AND capability, and we know he has the latter in spades so giving him a chance to sort out the former is both reasonable and professional.

It's ironic that you talk up social skills and then go on to pronounce guilt upon someone who has not been tried. So much for "innocent until proven guilty." IMO even if he did assault another person, it's moronic to judge the situation without knowing who or what started the fight. For all we know he might have been threatened and his actions might have been (perceived) self defense. Jumping to conclusions based upon limited information is not really a great social behavior either. We both agree that if he's sent to prison for 8 months then the club should look elsewhere, but I see no reason to do the court's job for them, especially when it jeopardizes our team's chances of keeping someone who has great potential to play a role in the team which we really don't have any depth in.

 

[dajesmac]

To be fair, we don't really know the circumstances of Newman's GBH charge.

It's a fairly easy thing to do to get into a fight whilst clubbing in Perth - you don't exactly have to be a headcase to get involved. As far as we know, Newman threw one punch, and it was a good one.

I don't condone his actions but I think people are drawing unfair conclusions on his character.

 

[Chris_6678]

Also when people question why Newman left at halftime in a WAFL match. I guarantee if you have the threat of jail hanging over your head playing footy would be the last thing you want to do. Was happy the club gave him time off to get his head right and was also happy to see he came back from the break in a lot better shape than last year.

 

[stewpyd2]

To be fair, we don't really know the circumstances of Newman's GBH charge.

It's a fairly easy thing to do to get into a fight whilst clubbing in Perth - you don't exactly have to be a headcase to get involved. As far as we know, Newman threw one punch, and it was a good one.

I don't condone his actions but I think people are drawing unfair conclusions on his character.

Exactly. Anyone venturing into Northbridge/Fremantle etc etc are at risk of this. Unfortunately I know of another guy who went to prison because he was acting in self defence when someone threw a bottle at his gf's head and then started becoming aggressive towards him. There are some real low lifes out there - and sometimes innocent parties get caught in the crosshairs.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Everyone threw stones at the black belt dude who knocked Luke Adams out, but he was acting in self defence and was innocent after all...

 

[flamingEMBERS]

I was being somewhat sardonic in order to mimic JTN's tone. If you actually read my post though I was saying that Newman is very talented, and relatively few out of the available players out there would have better skillsets. The club obviously believes that if this talent can be applied he'll be a great asset to the team. "Deserving" is a matter of both effort AND capability, and we know he has the latter in spades so giving him a chance to sort out the former is both reasonable and professional.

It's ironic that you talk up social skills and then go on to pronounce guilt upon someone who has not been tried. So much for "innocent until proven guilty." IMO even if he did assault another person, it's moronic to judge the situation without knowing who or what started the fight. For all we know he might have been threatened and his actions might have been (perceived) self defense. Jumping to conclusions based upon limited information is not really a great social behavior either. We both agree that if he's sent to prison for 8 months then the club should look elsewhere, but I see no reason to do the court's job for them, especially when it jeopardizes our team's chances of keeping someone who has great potential to play a role in the team which we really don't have any depth in.

I don't, if he gets 8 months he would have had an 8 month pre-season and be ripe and ready to play in a premiership campaign.

 

[beatlesmith]

Weirdly, it seems that the people who bemoan Newman's spot on the list over Dalziell are the same people who would stick up for Ben Cousins and his indiscretions.
Club legends deserve another chance, but a kid that most supporters have barely seen play should be tossed overboard because he clearly "doesn't want it".
Dane Swan and Steve Johnson turned it around. Let's hope Newman does too.

 

[the harry]

Weirdly, it seems that the people who bemoan Newman's spot on the list over Dalziell are the same people who would stick up for Ben Cousins and his indiscretions.
Club legends deserve another chance, but a kid that most supporters have barely seen play should be tossed overboard because he clearly "doesn't want it".
Dane Swan and Steve Johnson turned it around. Let's hope Newman does too.

Not saying I agree with the thought process but it's easy to say that one had runs on the board in terms of showing the requisite effort and also his incidents were/are self destructive, rather than (alledgedly) harmful to another.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Weirdly, it seems that the people who bemoan Newman's spot on the list over Dalziell are the same people who would stick up for Ben Cousins and his indiscretions.
Club legends deserve another chance, but a kid that most supporters have barely seen play should be tossed overboard because he clearly "doesn't want it".
Dane Swan and Steve Johnson turned it around. Let's hope Newman does too.

On a side note, I think it is time that we gave Cousins a lap of honour in a Hilux next season to give him a true send off.

 

[mick06]

To be fair, we don't really know the circumstances of Newman's GBH charge.

It's a fairly easy thing to do to get into a fight whilst clubbing in Perth - you don't exactly have to be a headcase to get involved. As far as we know, Newman threw one punch, and it was a good one.

I don't condone his actions but I think people are drawing unfair conclusions on his character.

Just look at Billy Slater in England. If that punch had broken the guys jaw is he up on GBH when he was provoked and retaliated? No vision of Newman's and haven't heard the story so i wont comment.

 

[the harry]

Just look at Billy Slater in England. If that punch had broken the guys jaw is he up on GBH when he was provoked and retaliated? No vision of Newman's and haven't heard the story so i wont comment.

If the guy falls back an hits his head he could have been on more than GBH charges.

Being provoked is a poor excuse for something that isn't very excusable.

 

[beatlesmith]

Whether Newman will go free at trial depends heavily on whether the defence of sunt pueri pueri, pueri puerilia tractant - "boys will be boys" (espoused by Snyder J in Van Houten) holds up.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

We also happen to be a business that has to make wise decisions/investments to ensure our future and an important factor in that equation is that we invest in quality people. We are not a welfare organization that is responsible for teaching people social skills. Newman has proven to be a very poor investment thus far even before he is judged in a court of law where I am confident he will be found guilty and almost certainly become a guest of the prison system.
I have no doubt that the Club has been given this advice and that is why they have delisted him. Personally, I don't believe he deserves any further consideration by the Club and they should wash their hands of him.
Your opening sentence beggars belief, how would you possibly know how many more deserving kids there are out there than Newman?

Ted what makes you think he will get jail time ?
My old man is a prison officer in charge of the gate at Casurina and Haika remand prison, he has said to me it would be very very
unusual for a first time offender to get jail time these days. especially with GBH charge on the lower end of the scale.
That being the broken jaw the victim received, GBH is usually reserved for much more serious injuries received, there
would even a case for the defence lawyer to challenge the magistrate about down grading the charge to assault.

 

[beatlesmith]

Ted what makes you think he will get jail time ?
My old man is a prison officer in charge of the gate at Casurina and Haika remand prison, he has said to me it would be very very
unusual for a first time offender to get jail time these days. especially with GBH charge on the lower end of the scale.
That being the broken jaw the victim received, GBH is usually reserved for much more serious injuries received, there
would even a case for the defence lawyer to challenge the magistrate about down grading the charge to assault.

GBH for broken jaws is pretty cut and dry. GBH means harm which dangers or is likely to endanger life, or cause, or be likely to cause permanent injury to health. From memory the rationale is that if a broken jaw goes untreated, the victim would not be able to eat and so their life would be endangered.
If he were offered AOBH instead I imagine he'd plead guilty pretty quickly.

As far as jail time goes, who knows. There have been people who have received jail on a first offence GBH in the past few years, but those seem to be the exception. Depends on the circumstances, extent of the injuries and what Murray has done after the incident (I imagine the Eagles would have signed him up for anger management counselling within a week of it happening- looks good for sentencing. Also whether he is remorseful).

 

[billyboy 21]

If the guy falls back an hits his head he could have been on more than GBH charges.

Being provoked is a poor excuse for something that isn't very excusable.

So if someone chips you one you would just take it?

 

[the harry]

So if someone chips you one you would just take it?

If you can handle it and brush it off, yeah.

I was refering to verbal provocation though. People take the step from words to dangerous behaviour far too easily.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

GBH for broken jaws is pretty cut and dry. GBH means harm which dangers or is likely to endanger life, or cause, or be likely to cause permanent injury to health. From memory the rationale is that if a broken jaw goes untreated, the victim would not be able to eat and so their life would be endangered.
If he were offered AOBH instead I imagine he'd plead guilty pretty quickly.

As far as jail time goes, who knows. There have been people who have received jail on a first offence GBH in the past few years, but those seem to be the exception. Depends on the circumstances, extent of the injuries and what Murray has done after the incident (I imagine the Eagles would have signed him up for anger management counselling within a week of it happening- looks good for sentencing. Also whether he is remorseful).

Beatlesmith was his jaw broken or was it fractured ?

 

[the harry]

Beatlesmith was his jaw broken or was it fractured ?

Broken jaw requiring "facial surgery".

Mr Newman was allegedly involved in a fight outside The Library nightclub on Lake Street on November 10 last year. It is alleged the 18-year-old victim was left with a broken jaw.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/16416599/eagle-newman-to-fight-assault-charge/

Police alleged that two men, both aged 18, became involved in an altercation at the Library nightclub about 1.30am on November 10.
An 18-year-old man has undergone facial surgery as a result of the alleged incident.
Newman, who turned 19 just days later, was charged with causing grievous bodily harm.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/young-eagle-in-court-on-gbh-charges-20121130-2al9x.html

 

[BradWCE]

Beatlesmith was his jaw broken or was it fractured ?

Aren't they the same thing?

 

[the harry]

Just a quote from earlier this year about how serious the matter

But Superintendent Migro alleged Newman’s conduct was “violent and on licenced [sic] premises, that it involved considerable force, was out of proportion to any provocation offered, and points to aspects of the case that suggest that this was not a spontaneous incident”.

http://www.oneperth.com.au/2013/03/19/cops-overruled-on-charged-eagle/

Edit: more from the above article.

http://www.oneperth.com.au/2013/03/19/cops-overruled-on-charged-eagle/

The written determination by liquor commission presiding member Evan Shackleton notes that Newman is alleged to have assaulted Brett Daniel Marris at the Library Nightclub at about 1.30am on November 10 last year.
The determination refers to a statement of material facts alleging Newman and Mr Marris had been arguing when Newman punched Mr Marris to the left side of his face before a fight broke out, several punches were thrown and Mr Marris received a broken jaw.
http://www.oneperth.com.au/2013/03/19/cops-overruled-on-charged-eagle/

http://www.oneperth.com.au/2013/03/19/cops-overruled-on-charged-eagle/

 

[beatlesmith]

Beatlesmith was his jaw broken or was it fractured ?

Strictly speaking a fracture is a break.
I think jaw fractures that require surgery are usually what sets off GBH alarm bells, while it may be that minor fractures that do not require surgery do not. In this case it was the former.

 

[larrikin]

Just a quote from earlier this year about how serious the matter



http://www.oneperth.com.au/2013/03/19/cops-overruled-on-charged-eagle/

The not-spontaneous bit is a bit of an alarm bell

 

[the harry]

The not-spontaneous bit is a bit of an alarm bell

Yeah I hadn't found that article when updating his player thread. It's certainly the most detail on the matter that I've seen reported, unfortunately it's not good detail for Newman.

Understandable now that they failed to get the charge down graded. Jail suddenly doesn't seem out of the question.