Player Watch Nathan Freeman

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

If we can't get a deal that keeps us happy then Freeman can take his chances in the ND or PSD. With Carlton, Brisbane, GCS and Essendon all with selections ahead of the Saints he can't be guaranteed where he might end up. Especially if the Saints don't commit with their 1st pick. Not sure he's pick 1-5 worthy and if the Saints opt for someone else at 5 he'd have a nervous wait till their 2nd round pick. Even in the PSD hard to see him surviving till pick 5. I hope the Pies play real hard.

Reposted to The Collingwood Blog

 

[left at home]

injuries and form happen to players and that's where you get your chance, especially if your own form is good
to make your mark. the better the team is the harder it is to break in, but when you do the greater the reward is.would been nice]
I thought he had something we lacked in our team, speed that could break the lines, and strength to go with it.
disappointed the young man and his dad could not see this.
that the opportunity with a good preseason presented itself would have seen him in the 1st at the start of the season
and in a team that if all thing been equal play in the finals next year.
that's why I am disappointed in the young man, not because of the no 10 draft pick or the money[if stayed played well
upgrade of contract would have been nice]. the chance to prove your self with the best is always more rewarding than the easy option

 

[Mungo Mulligan Stew]

Agree with your post in so many ways, but I can't support three examples of alliteration in the same sentence. I just can't.

[giggle]
Reposted to The Collingwood Blog

 

[ppoiter]

Interesting comments from Leigh Matthews

But Leigh Matthews said the Pies should call Freeman's bluff and risk losing him for nothing.

Matthews said the Pies had to stand firm and threaten to send Freeman into the pre-season draft, out of principle alone.

"Collingwood should not trade him," Matthews declared on Sports Today.

"I reckon it's a principle the clubs have to be prepared to do, otherwise this is going to happen next year and it's going to become even more regular.

"The principle is more important, long term, than maybe the net loss."

Its a nice idea but the reality is he'll probably get to St Kilda anyway, so we'd really only be shooting ourselves in the foot. The clubs will always be trying to gain any advantage they can over one another, so if this sort of thing needs to be prevented it has to come from the AFL

 

[jmac70]

Does anyone else think that it was a bad idea to offer Freeman a performance based contract decided on the number of games he played. If he had have stayed, I'd have wanted him to be managed very conservatively for the next year or two. I'd have wanted him to be rested when his hamstrings were tight. I wouldn't want him to have a large financial incentive to ignore and be secretive about warning signs.

Not sure too many people would have supported the type of contract offered by the Saints of almost a million dollars over three years. It is understandable why Freeman has chosen to leave and whilst it is disappointing we may end up better off.

 

[jmac70]

Its a nice idea but the reality is he'll probably get to St Kilda anyway, so we'd really only be shooting ourselves in the foot. The clubs will always be trying to gain any advantage they can over one another, so if this sort of thing needs to be prevented it has to come from the AFL

Not hard to see why Brisbane are such a poor club with attitudes like that.

 

[ppoiter]

As a guide we are not Brisbane or GWS.
Freeman has chosen the wrong club to shaft.
I would not be getting too cocky.
We could do same next year with Mcartin or similar high pick & offer big bucks to leave.

I like this idea. Spite would be a big reason for the offer but we do need another key forward..

 

[76woodenspooners]

Wasting top ten pick is annoying,

Agreed

number of Ex Collingwood players at other clubs is disturbing.

Not really ...

Cameron Wood - disturbing? Nah
Dale Thomas - disturbing? Nah
Chris Dawes - disturbing? Nah
Heritier Lumumber - disturbing? Nah (besides Varcoe is great compensation)
Jon Ceglar - disturbing? Not really
Sharrod Wellingham - disturbing? Maybe (but Grundy was good compensation)
Heath Shaw - disturbing? Maybe (but Adams was good compensation)
Dayne Beams - disturbing? Maybe (but DeGoey + Greenwood + Crisp was good compensation)

Any others?

 

[Unknown Identity]

It's funny how so many posters commented on how they believe the club mismanaged his hamstring injury over the past 18 months and when he decides to leave the club all of a sudden he's money hungry, pea hearted, weak so and so etc..

Our incentive based offer had the potential to earn more money than at St Kilda while Saints base offer was a lot higher.

He has no idea how long of a career he will have now and his explosive burst of pace has diminished, with no guarantees it will return.

Cut the kid some slack and take a look at it from his perspective and his families.

Footy Fans have a shocking tendancy to be so self involved that it's just about their feelings.

 

[Lord of the Pies]

Agreed



Not really ...

Cameron Wood - disturbing? Nah
Dale Thomas - disturbing? Nah
Chris Dawes - disturbing? Nah
Heritier Lumumber - disturbing? Nah (besides Varcoe is great compensation)
Jon Ceglar - disturbing? Not really
Sharrod Wellingham - disturbing? Maybe (but Grundy was good compensation)
Heath Shaw - disturbing? Maybe (but Adams was good compensation)
Dayne Beams - disturbing? Maybe (but DeGoey + Greenwood + Crisp was good compensation)

Any others?

Fair call, maybe I get too attached to Collingwood players, still pissed about Paul Williams leaving.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If we get a second rounder for him not all is lost. Better then retaining him and then being forced to delist in a couple of seasons. StKilda rate him (or at least rate his prospects of full rehabiliation) so best to trade him while he has value.

Not sure why he wants out but at face value it seems that he doesnt think he can make best 22 any time soon. Oh well, so long.

 

[Scodog10]

Agreed



Not really ...

Cameron Wood - disturbing? Nah
Dale Thomas - disturbing? Nah
Chris Dawes - disturbing? Nah
Heritier Lumumber - disturbing? Nah (besides Varcoe is great compensation)
Jon Ceglar - disturbing? Not really
Sharrod Wellingham - disturbing? Maybe (but Grundy was good compensation)
Heath Shaw - disturbing? Maybe (but Adams was good compensation)
Dayne Beams - disturbing? Maybe (but DeGoey + Greenwood + Crisp was good compensation)

Any others?

Kidding yourself with Beams and Shaw, IMO.

To see Shaw have his best and most consistent season at another club after the decade he spent with us is not only disturbing, but hurts a little as well. Beams speaks for himself without injury he wins his second AA gig and is a clear winner of the B&F.

Yeah the compensation was good, but we cant deny their good deeds simply on the basis of what we received in return, IMO. Also:

Stanley - disturbing? Nah
R Shaw - disturbing? Maybe.
Paine - disturbing? Nah

Those last 3 based on 2015 with Shaw already gone and the other two to possibly follow.

 

[ppoiter]

Agreed



Not really ...

Cameron Wood - disturbing? Nah
Dale Thomas - disturbing? Nah
Chris Dawes - disturbing? Nah
Heritier Lumumber - disturbing? Nah (besides Varcoe is great compensation)
Jon Ceglar - disturbing? Not really
Sharrod Wellingham - disturbing? Maybe (but Grundy was good compensation)
Heath Shaw - disturbing? Maybe (but Adams was good compensation)
Dayne Beams - disturbing? Maybe (but DeGoey + Greenwood + Crisp was good compensation)

Any others?

I miss Dawes. As shocking as his 2012 was its not like any of his replacements have been much better

 

[SpongePie]

I like this idea. Spite would be a big reason for the offer but we do need another key forward..

If we aren't recruiting out of spite or to troll other clubs, then my membership is going in the bin!!!

 

[SpongePie]

I miss Dawes. As shocking as his 2012 was its not like any of his replacements have been much better

He hasn't exactly done that great over at Melbourne. In any event didn't we get pick 18 for him? Do in effect good "replacement" is really Grundy. More than happy with that.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Ball was in the unique position in 2009 of being able to tell clubs he flat out wouldn't play for them if they drafted him, to the point that he was willing to sit out of footy if they drafted him. The entire reason he opted for the ND rather than the PSD was to add that extra risk to clubs that considered drafting him. Whilst it's conceivable that Freeman could do the same, it's not exactly an enticing option for him. The PSD carries no risk for clubs that use it, so threats are unlikely to deter them, and if Freeman opted for the ND, St Kilda's absolute best case scenario would be to get him with their second pick. It's unlikely that he would last till the third round in a shallow draft. Sitting out of footy for two years if he refuses a contract wouldn't be an enticing thought for a kid who's already had a stalled start to his career.

So what are the options?

1. Risk him being taken earlier in the PSD by Carlton/Essendon/Melbourne (Roos had big wraps on him in his draft year) who see little to no risk in taking a punt on a kid for two years who has a ton of upside.

2. Send him to the ND, where you'll have to use your second pick on him anyway, provided he lasts that long.

3. Throw the Pies your second pick and guarantee he will get to the Saints with no drama or unnecessary stress on the kid.

Seems like a pretty straightforward decision to me.

Yes this is a good picture. Also remember that wooden spoon clubs wouldnt want or need a player like Ball on a massive contract who had only a couple of years left in his broken body. One of the reasons they passed on him was that they were not in the premiership window and didnt have teh cap room or the inclination to spend that cap room on a player like him. Even Collingwood only got two good years out of him before he did his knee in 2012 and was never the same again..proving our offer was fair.

Freeman is a different situation altogether. If he became available in the draft or the PSD, these lowly clubs would likely snap him up based on reputation and potential...especialy given the salary does not take a huge chunk out of the cap. Not sure StKilda would want to take that risk just out of spite when they end up using the exact same pick they should be prepared to trade.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Everyone's saying they don't rate the depth of the draft but all clubs have to use at least two picks. I wonder if that's going to make it hard to trade first and second rounders? The last thing we'd want is to trade our first and second for Carlisle and Freeman and then have to use 40 and 55 on real long shots.

Cant see why not

 

[ppoiter]

He hasn't exactly done that great over at Melbourne. In any event didn't we get pick 18 for him? Do in effect good "replacement" is really Grundy. More than happy with that.

I think his pick was used on Broomy, Wellinghams was used on Grundy, correct me if I'm wrong. Will probably end up being an upgrade once Broomhead hits his prime, fair enough

 

[jmac70]

Wasting top ten pick is annoying, number of Ex Collingwood players at other clubs is disturbing.[/QU

Cant see why not

Welcome back Timmy.

 

[DaVe86]

Im seeing a lot of posters comment about the amount of players walking out the door.

I agree there have been some departures which hurt, but overall i just think its the landscape now until you get into the top 4 and players can smell a premiership. Until then it is about tinkering with your list until the right balance is struck.

Last year the doggies had their captain and a former brownlow medallist walk. They moved up the ladder.

Adelaide have had so many players leave, and it happened again this year with danger. They even lost their coach tragically. They made semis.

Sydney have jetta walking out, hawks will lose periphery players this year, st kilda has had a number of core players leave etc etc.

Its really just about maximising the value of the player in the way out and moving on.

Apart from dayne beams, i really dont think we have lost anyone who has gone on and thrived at a new club. But even with beams we maximised the return.

Freemans departure hurts a lot because we cant maximise his compo, but he hasnt played a game for 2 years now so its not like our best 22 has been affected short term.

Importantly, we have had players WANt to join us in the interim. Varcoe, Crisp, Adams and treloar for example.

I think we just have to get used to this new world.

It is a challenge for buckley going forward because this list needs to settle now. This is a big trade period, but by the end of it we should have the list we want to take us to a flag.

 

[Apex36]

Apart from dayne beams, i really dont think we have lost anyone who has gone on and thrived at a new club.

Pretty sure Heath Shaw was AA this year...

 

[Kirby]

I miss Dawes. As shocking as his 2012 was its not like any of his replacements have been much better

Yes he's a beauty. Just finished 19th in Melbourne's BnF. Kicked a whopping 11 goals in his 14 games this year.

That's some quality we badly need right there!

He's the luckiest man alive seriously. Melbourne are playing him $500,000 a year for being a good bloke.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I'm actually tempted to email the club, urging them to force Freeman to choose between the draft and us, do not give him the option to trade, do not give him the option to dick us around.

Reckon they'll listen to a Legends member?

On the one hand Hine has already stated that they'll explore trade scenarios which are in our very best interests... which likely precludes sending him to the PSD.

On the other hand, it would be one mighty extended middle finger to Freeman and the AFLPA. Sure, clubs like Brisbane might be leery of picking up a player who wants to go to another club, but is Freeman prepared to sit out another year of AFL football just to get what he wants?

 

[The Royal Sampler]

He's the luckiest man alive seriously. Melbourne are playing him $500,000 a year for being a good bloke.

Wow, that's awesome... I'm a great bloke so I wonder what I could get out of them?

 

[Lethal06]

Yes he's a beauty. Just finished 19th in Melbourne's BnF. Kicked a whopping 11 goals in his 14 games this year.

That's some quality we badly need right there!

He's the luckiest man alive seriously. Melbourne are playing him $500,000 a year for being a good bloke.

Yep, you nailed it.
Jessie White is a much better player than Dawes yet cops so much criticism from supporters. Both Dawes and White have a bit of the "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" syndrome but gee, White's version of Jane is so much more attractive than Dawes'.