Player Watch Nathan Freeman

[Wayne Arnold]

If culture drives success, which after all is OUR theory, and the reason for Leading Teams being introduced then yes, flags are a good indicator of culture. Personally I favour that as a measure based on a simpler factor. You don't win flags unless the players want to be there and play for each other. They haven't lost many quality players over the last decade or so.

As for near extinction LAST CENTURY, they were in debt as we were and they got themselves out of it.
Yep, that's about where we were placed.
They kept their players and added quality to suit needs. We went in a completely different direction. They won 2 more flags after 2008 and will play in a 4tyh consecutive GF. We fall in a heap. You could easily equate their 2008 to our 2010 or their 2012 to our 2011.

So where do you place their 2009 and 2010 seasons?

 

[MarkT2]

Im very happy with Nathan, im happy for him to be there ten years, as long as he building building etc
The best eras tend to have long term coaches, so heres hoing in his decade should he stay that long, we will have great success

You are very happy with everything at Collingwood all the time. Next year he'll be half way though the 10 years. 10 years is rare coaching tenure.

 

[MarkT2]

So where do you place their 2009 and 2010 seasons?

Smack in the middle of a good period by Geelong, Collingwood and St Kilda.
They slipped a bit with a few exits but the point is they didn't change coach and rebuild they fortified.

Honestly, it would be a bit over the top to expect them to have won every flag wouldn't it?

Hawks are a very good club and we should be jealous of their success.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Smack in the middle of a good period by Geelong, Collingwood and St Kilda.
They slipped a bit with a few exits but the point is they didn't change coach and rebuild they fortified.

Their 2013 premiership team only had 8 players from their 2008 side. That's quite a difference and suggests some form of rebuild/rejuvenation.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Their 2013 premiership team only had 8 players from their 2008 side. That's quite a difference and suggests some form of rebuild/rejuvenation.

Now now Mr Arnold, please dont make too much sense, that would never do.
Great post

 

[Saintly Viewed]

You are very happy with everything at Collingwood all the time. Next year he'll be half way though the 10 years. 10 years is rare coaching tenure.

Yes im happy.
Iby the way i dont think Collingwood does everything right al the time. No club is perfect, Nathan is not perfect (shock horror). I do however think we are in the right direction.
Come end 2012 we could have done what Geelong did, or North and be thereabouts.
But instead we chose the harder tougher more patient path of rebuilding a list.
I agre 10 years is rare, but if you have the right person it makes senses than chopping and changing.
Took mick 11 years to get our flag, thompson at geelong 8 years. Sometimes it just takes time.
If we had clarkson here as an example hed be building our list too as he did pre 2008 at hawthorn, then rebuilt it again. If clarkson went to melbourne his nickname would be Paul Roos. How is that going?
Having roughead, hodge, mitchell, riolli and others helps.
Have to have the list. So im patient because the earth is slow but the ox is patient.

 

[MarkT2]

Their 2013 premiership team only had 8 players from their 2008 side. That's quite a difference and suggests some form of rebuild/rejuvenation.

While remaining in contention with most of their key core.
I expect they will have a real challenge from here given how long they have been up.

 

[MarkT2]

Yes im happy.
Iby the way i dont think Collingwood does everything right al the time. No club is perfect, Nathan is not perfect (shock horror). I do however think we are in the right direction.
Come end 2012 we could have done what Geelong did, or North and be thereabouts.

Or Hawthorn - except that we couldn't because we chose a direction that alienated some quality players.

 

[Wayne Arnold]

While remaining in contention with most of their key core.
I expect they will have a real challenge from here given how long they have been up.

The point was the two sides were vastly different and list turn over occurs at every club. At Collingwood the list turn over has probably been more extensive and rapid. However, in 2009 and 2010 the Hawks went down to go up again (they weren't really in contention these two years). Across those two seasons they won 21 games and drew once. The last two seasons Collingwood has won 21 games. I expect Collingwood to rise up the ladder next year. If not, then the path taken and/or the coach can be debated and criticised.

 

[Fruit]

Was it 2006 that Alastair Clarkson was having the same things said about him that Bucks cops now. Eventually his young players matured and they bought into his game plan (which was laughed at by nearly everyone because it was too much like soccer) and they also drafted some mature players to top up when the time was right. Sound familiar?

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Or Hawthorn - except that we couldn't because we chose a direction that alienated some quality players.

If thats what you believe fair enough
We will just have to agree to disagree

 

[jmac70]

If thats what you believe fair enough
We will just have to agree to disagree

There is no doubt that the succession plan alienated some of the players. You can debate the idea but not what happened since. The question now is what will happen in the future.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

There is no doubt that the succession plan alienated some of the players. You can debate the idea but not what happened since. The question now is what will happen in the future.

You can only control the now to assist the future
Cant change the past, its gone.
Agre the succession plan wasnt as smooth as it could be, but thats now done, long time done too.

 

[MarkT2]

You can't change the past but you have the choice of learning from it and reacting or not.
"All is well now" is what we've said for the most part of half a century.

It is fair to say that what matters now is what we do from here. That's what we all said last year and what we did from there was the same as what had been doing and now here we are with more of the same.

All of that is to say the past isn't just in the past it is still the present and will therefore also be the future unless there is change.

 

[MarkT2]

There is no doubt that the succession plan alienated some of the players. You can debate the idea but not what happened since. The question now is what will happen in the future.

It wasn't just the succession plan. Having gone through with it we then pursued a cultural change process. The succession plan didn't impact Freeman or Seedsman and probably didn't impact Beams or O'Brien. There is more at play.

 

[Mick39]

The succession plan is close to the greatest self implosion in the club's entire history. When they write a book, it will rival the 1950 issue when Bervyn Woods was appointed coach.

 

[Rustin Cohle]

The succession plan is close to the greatest self implosion in the club's entire history. When they write a book, it will rival the 1950 issue when Bervyn Woods was appointed coach.

Could you possibly be more of a drama queen? I'm starting to think you are actually Mick Malthouse.

 

[Jasper84]

The succession plan is close to the greatest self implosion in the club's entire history. When they write a book, it will rival the 1950 issue when Bervyn Woods was appointed coach.

I genuinely don't get it. What are you hoping to achieve when you come on BF? If people agreed with you would it make you happier? Is there a joy in causing cyclical debates that have no resolution? Is the anger and ire of others directed towards you a source of pleasure? If you could outline your mission statement, we would be able to work to help you achieve your desires. Because honestly, at the moment you are just coming across the guy who deliberately annoys the hell out of people almost daring the mods to send you to Banville.

 

[jmac70]

It wasn't just the succession plan. Having gone through with it we then pursued a cultural change process. The succession plan didn't impact Freeman or Seedsman and probably didn't impact Beams or O'Brien. There is more at play.

Quite possibly. If we don't improve next season it will be Buckley leaving.

 

[Magpie Ink]

I genuinely don't get it. What are you hoping to achieve when you come on BF? If people agreed with you would it make you happier? Is there a joy in causing cyclical debates that have no resolution? Is the anger and ire of others directed towards you a source of pleasure? If you could outline your mission statement, we would be able to work to help you achieve your desires. Because honestly, at the moment you are just coming across the guy who deliberately annoys the hell out of people almost daring the mods to send you to Banville.

He's just another reincarnation of Blessed, RCT, Keanno47? etc etc.

You can spot it within a couple of posts.

It's just constant negative bullshit that gets nowhere.

 

[MarkT2]

Quite possibly. If we don't improve next season it will be Buckley leaving.

A few said that 12 months ago yet here we are. I don't really have much issue with Buckley's actual coaching of football. We've won about as many games as the list warrants. It's his man management and cultural strategy that has been disastrous IMO. Even that might have been OK it is wasn't on the back of the coaching change and after some acrimonious exits. I think Chris Scott provided the blueprint for a coaching change at a club in the midst of a successful run.

As you've said what's done is done. My concern now is that we seem to be drifting and not getting anywhere and I really can't see Eddie sacking Buckley of we are in the exact same position in 12 months. Buckley will be coaching Collingwood in 2 years no matter what.

 

[jasonwilde]

Im very happy with Nathan, im happy for him to be there ten years, as long as he building building etc
The best eras tend to have long term coaches, so heres hoing in his decade should he stay that long, we will have great success

It's hard to convey tone in some situations.

But yeah, if he ever takes us to a flag, it will be the best one of all IMO. We'll know within another two years if he is this person or not. I've always condemned the twats who want him sacked after a loss. If we have an awful year in 2016 then it will be hard to defend him but I think we should seriously challenge in 2017 and if we're not doing this but then, then okay, thanks for coming Nathan, have some money, take care

 

[jasonwilde]

It wasn't just the succession plan. Having gone through with it we then pursued a cultural change process. The succession plan didn't impact Freeman or Seedsman and probably didn't impact Beams or O'Brien. There is more at play.

The succession plan is close to the greatest self implosion in the club's entire history.

Oh, FFS!

 

[Kirby]

Ok this is something I got told tonight from someone who would know. I couldn't care less who doubts it.

The issue that is Freeman has gone with is largely ( but by no means only) is that he is blaming the club regarding his injury management. It particularly comes from this year. I'm a little drunk so will do my best but here goes:

During the early part of the season when he played VFL he never mentally felt quite right despite the fact that the doctors thought the hamstring was ok. It got to the point where he had the surgery to remove scar tissue around the string. At some point later in the season he started to get to the stage where he was almost right to play and the doctor was at the stage where he thought that he might as well play because there was not a lot to lose. This was with only a few rounds to go but the football department overruled this and decided it was better that he not risk it and concentrate on next year.

The decision was based upon the feeling that Nathan wasn't really quite over it despite his claim that he was now ok, as I'm told the club thought that he was not ready to deal with it. That it was better to wait for next year than to risk him injuring the hammy again.

I hope this makes sense?

 

[PicaBoo]

Ok this is something I got told tonight from someone who would know. I couldn't care less who doubts it.

The issue that is Freeman has gone with is largely ( but by no means only) is that he is blaming the club regarding his injury management. It particularly comes from this year. I'm a little drunk so will do my best but here goes:

During the early part of the season when he played VFL he never mentally felt quite right despite the fact that the doctors thought the hamstring was ok. It got to the point where he had the surgery to remove scar tissue around the string. At some point later in the season he started to get to the stage where he was almost right to play and the doctor was at the stage where he thought that he might as well play because there was not a lot to lose. This was with only a few rounds to go but the football department overruled this and decided it was better that he not risk it and concentrate on next year.

The decision was based upon the feeling that Nathan wasn't really quite over it despite his claim that he was now ok, as I'm told the club thought that he was not ready to deal with it. That it was better to wait for next year than to risk him injuring the hammy again.

I hope this makes sense?

A little bit. Just can't find the mismanagement part in the story.
Unless you mean he was fit to play but we said he couldn't.
Another interesting part is that he was the driving force to have the scar tissue removed , not the club. I can see that as a) the club meds not recognizing the scar tissue as hindrance and Freeman had to take the initiative b) Freeman having a say in his injury management c) the club was actually accommodating Freeman with his wishes/ complaints.
Which is a bit of a different picture that emerged from his camp earlier on.