Player Watch Nathan Freeman

[Kirby]

A little bit. Just can't find the mismanagement part in the story.
Unless you mean he was fit to play but we said he couldn't.
Another interesting part is that he was the driving force to have the scar tissue removed , not the club. I can see that as a) the club meds not recognizing the scar tissue as hindrance and Freeman had to take the initiative b) Freeman having a say in his injury management c) the club was actually accommodating Freeman with his wishes/ complaints.
Which is a bit of a different picture that emerged from his camp earlier on.

You summed it up pretty well. At the end of the season he claims that he then wanted to play(despite the club thinking he could earlier anyway) but then the club said no, that they'd prefer to set him again for next year.

It's a bit of a weird argument but I can summarise it as the club thought he was good.....he thought not.......surgery........club thought he was good............he thought not..............surgery again...............club thought he was good.........he wasn't sure but said he'd play.......club then thought it was almost end of the year and don't risk it.....wait until next year......he's not happy.

My best summary whilst still drunkish

 

[Mkcaptain]

You summed it up pretty well. At the end of the season he claims that he then wanted to play(despite the club thinking he could earlier anyway) but then the club said no, that they'd prefer to set him again for next year.

It's a bit of a weird argument but I can summarise it as the club thought he was good.....he thought not.......surgery........club thought he was good............he thought not..............surgery again...............club thought he was good.........he wasn't sure but said he'd play.......club then thought it was almost end of the year and don't risk it.....wait until next year......he's not happy.

My best summary whilst still drunkish

Probably unhappy he couldn't play a few good games to make St Kilda cough up an extra hundred thousand for him

 

[Bard]

Ok this is something I got told tonight from someone who would know. I couldn't care less who doubts it.

The issue that is Freeman has gone with is largely ( but by no means only) is that he is blaming the club regarding his injury management. It particularly comes from this year. I'm a little drunk so will do my best but here goes:

During the early part of the season when he played VFL he never mentally felt quite right despite the fact that the doctors thought the hamstring was ok. It got to the point where he had the surgery to remove scar tissue around the string. At some point later in the season he started to get to the stage where he was almost right to play and the doctor was at the stage where he thought that he might as well play because there was not a lot to lose. This was with only a few rounds to go but the football department overruled this and decided it was better that he not risk it and concentrate on next year.

The decision was based upon the feeling that Nathan wasn't really quite over it despite his claim that he was now ok, as I'm told the club thought that he was not ready to deal with it. That it was better to wait for next year than to risk him injuring the hammy again.

I hope this makes sense?

Pretty much what PicaBoo said. It's believable and what you say makes sense, it's just a massive overreaction from Freeman. I think we all understand the feeling of wanting to get out there and 'play' or feel like you're a part of the team outside of being a name on a sheet somewhere, but the club was clearly doing the best by him. Clearly he's just frustrated with how his career has gone to date and is taking it out on the club, which I guess isn't that surprising given his age.

 

[Anzacday]

So in other words he sooked 'cos he didn't get to play.
Given Ben Reid's history I can understand the club being conservative, (more to lose than gain).

 

[PicaBoo]

Pretty much what PicaBoo said. It's believable and what you say makes sense, it's just a massive overreaction from Freeman. I think we all understand the feeling of wanting to get out there and 'play' or feel like you're a part of the team outside of being a name on a sheet somewhere, but the club was clearly doing the best by him. Clearly he's just frustrated with how his career has gone to date and is taking it out on the club, which I guess isn't that surprising given his age.

But how bad are his hammies than. Really. All the arguments so far were that they were really bad. Now it sounds they could be fine but the club takes the caution route.
So Freeman spits the dummy at the negotiations because he can see his trigger for the performance based contract jeopardized by overcautious club meds. Who in his and undoubtedly his dads opinion don't know f * all about his hamstrings and treatment anyway.

 

[ClaytonM]

As you've said what's done is done. My concern now is that we seem to be drifting and not getting anywhere and I really can't see Eddie sacking Buckley of we are in the exact same position in 12 months. Buckley will be coaching Collingwood in 2 years no matter what.

I see things Quite differently. I don't think we are drifting at all. I think the Club and coach have a clear rebuild strategy and the players in general have bought in. There have been a few players leave for different reasons but I think overall our list will be stronger for the player turnover.

I do not think we were a real chance of winning a flag after 2011. Key players were aging, injuries to Luke Ball nd others hurt, and our winning game plan had been superseded. A rebuild was required to compete with the best lists and I am generally happy with how we have gone about it.

I think overall we were significantly better than last year, even if the win/loss column does not agree.

 

[Vampire013]

I'm still stunned that anyone would want to go from Collingwood to St.Kilda???? FFS !!!
I'm even more surprised by his decision because I saw him at the VFL finals with the other players and sitting together with Buckley.
If he was planning to leave, it does not make sense for him to be hanging around Bucks.
He was the least one I was worried about not re-signing.
He was a part of the clubs plans but the club was not a part of his plans !
Most are unhappy that he is leaving because no one could see if he can play.

 

[PieBeast]

So in other words he sooked 'cos he didn't get to play.
Given Ben Reid's history I can understand the club being conservative, (more to lose than gain).

Yeah nah, that's simply trivialising a far more complex issue.

More like if Kirby's mail is true and I have no reason to doubt him it sounds like the Club and Nathan haven't been on the same page in regards to the injury management all along and rightly or wrongly he might have interpreted this as our medical department being amateurish.

 

[Kirby]

Ok I'm sober now and have most of my brain back.

I think in summary it's fair to say that Freeman and our medical staff are not on the same page. It's a strange situation because our medicos don't think that there is much wrong with his string and believe that Nathan is mentally not pushing himself through it. It seems that he most likely blames them for the situation.

I did find it kind of strange that the club decided not to play him in the last couple of VFL games but I think, or at least the way I understand it, is that the club determined that they didn't think Freeman was mentally up to it and decided to pull the plug on the season to concentrate on next year.

I think this probably is the issue that Bucks was alluding to in his clip at Freeman in that interview........that his mental ability to get through his injury is something that he has to deal with no matter where he goes.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

2605 posts on a young fellow who wants to leave, not too bad. At least he will always have that if nothing else so who gets jumper 21?

 

[Crazy Tails]

2605 posts on a young fellow who wants to leave, not too bad. At least he will always have that if nothing else so who gets jumper 12?

Wasn't he 21? Shaz is 12.

 

[Jasper84]

The irony is that Buckley is so over qualified in hamstring management, he probably could have done Freeman's rehab for him.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Wasn't he 21? Shaz is 12.

Arrrrrrrrr i went dyslexic
I will correct, thanks
My bad!

 

[Crazy Tails]

Arrrrrrrrr i went dyslexic
I will correct, thanks
My bad!

No probs. In answer to your Q though maybe Bruzzy Maynard could come up from 37 to 21 next year or maybe Oxley from 43 to 21. We could also give it to our 2nd pick in the draft.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

No probs. In answer to your Q though maybe Bruzzy Maynard could come up from 37 to 21 next year or maybe Oxley from 43 to 21. We could also give it to our 2nd pick in the draft.

Great thinking
I always like to see who gets what number.
If they decide that Keefe/Thomas dont keep their numbers surely a clever promo tactic would be Air Jordan from 35 to 23 theyd sell heaps of jumpers.
Maybe even Frost could get 21.

 

[Lefthanded]

I'm still stunned that anyone would want to go from Collingwood to St.Kilda???? FFS !!!
I'm even more surprised by his decision because I saw him at the VFL finals with the other players and sitting together with Buckley.
If he was planning to leave, it does not make sense for him to be hanging around Bucks.
He was the least one I was worried about not re-signing.
He was a part of the clubs plans but the club was not a part of his plans !
Most are unhappy that he is leaving because no one could see if he can play.

A good point but it's hard to know what is the driving factor/s:
- does Freeman have friends in player group so supporting them
- did Freeman get along with Bucks and it's more medical staff that have driven his decision
- was decision driven by Freeman's dad
- did a big offer from Saints come after the VFL finals

 

[Lefthanded]

Is Buckley's interview from Tuesday something anyone has a link to? Barrett referenced it in sliding doors http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-02/sliding-doors-grand-final-edition and it's made me pretty curious.

 

[MarkT2]

Oh, FFS!

Care to elaborate?

 

[MarkT2]

I see things Quite differently. I don't think we are drifting at all. I think the Club and coach have a clear rebuild strategy and the players in general have bought in. There have been a few players leave for different reasons but I think overall our list will be stronger for the player turnover.

I do not think we were a real chance of winning a flag after 2011. Key players were aging, injuries to Luke Ball nd others hurt, and our winning game plan had been superseded. A rebuild was required to compete with the best lists and I am generally happy with how we have gone about it.

I think overall we were significantly better than last year, even if the win/loss column does not agree.

I agree they have a clear strategy. Hard to say players have bought in when they leave in historically high numbers, particularly when that started when we were contenders with a relatively young list.

As for being a realistic chance, had the players not been to a funeral before the Swans PF we could very well have continued our run against them and they ended up winning the flag. We were, understandably, flat as tacks in the PF. That was on top of 4 knee recos during the year. We were still a very good side in 2012 and Buckley coached us very well that year. We fell apart from there.

 

[DRIZZT]

Care to elaborate?

Dont mean to stick my nose in,but I think FFS stands for For heck Sake

 

[ClaytonM]

I agree they have a clear strategy. Hard to say players have bought in when they leave in historically high numbers, particularly when that started when we were contenders with a relatively young list.

As for being a realistic chance, had the players not been to a funeral before the Swans PF we could very well have continued our run against them and they ended up winning the flag. We were, understandably, flat as tacks in the PF. That was on top of 4 knee recos during the year. We were still a very good side in 2012 and Buckley coached us very well that year. We fell apart from there.

Yes we did fall away which in my opinion was inevitable. Didak, Jolly, Brown, Ball and Johnson were all past their prime and Maxy was starting to age. Our game plan was superseded and our list could not compete with the very best teams.

That is when the rebuild was required and rightly started.

 

[soreplums]

A few said that 12 months ago yet here we are. I don't really have much issue with Buckley's actual coaching of football. We've won about as many games as the list warrants. It's his man management and cultural strategy that has been disastrous IMO. Even that might have been OK it is wasn't on the back of the coaching change and after some acrimonious exits. I think Chris Scott provided the blueprint for a coaching change at a club in the midst of a successful run.

As you've said what's done is done. My concern now is that we seem to be drifting and not getting anywhere and I really can't see Eddie sacking Buckley of we are in the exact same position in 12 months. Buckley will be coaching Collingwood in 2 years no matter what.

i don't agree with this.

People and values/culture first drive strong organisations and set the foundations of sustained success. It's how Geelong and hawthorn have been able to do it in the most recent times.

I'm happy for Buckley to stay until the end of 2017 to see how we are tracking. If we are playing good consistent footy and are featuring passed the first week of finals in happy for him to continue

 

[left at home]

The irony is that Buckley is so over qualified in hamstring management, he probably could have done Freeman's rehab for him.

wish he had would have played for us

 

[doodles98]

i don't agree with this.

1. People and values/culture first drive strong organisations and set the foundations of sustained success. It's how Geelong and hawthorn have been able to do it in the most recent times.

2. I'm happy for Buckley to stay until the end of 2017 to see how we are tracking. If we are playing good consistent footy and are featuring passed the first week of finals in happy for him to continue

I don't agree with this
1. Can you specify what people and culture you refer to? If you are moralizing about off-field behavior or quirky difficult types then you don't know much about the history of successful AFL sides in this respect. Collingwood 2010, West Coast 2005/06, North in the 90's, Carlton 85/86 etc etc... The only culture any AFL club needs to worry about is a winning one.. a winning culture based on absolute team commitment and brotherhood.. however that is achieved. Individual and group dynamics aren't replicateable between different individuals and groups like a McDonalds cheeseburger. The best coaches are always able to work with what they've got and get the best out of them.
2. You are easily pleased and happy to settle for mediocrity. I don't think Eddy will be; nor hopefully will the rest of the board. No real Collingwood supporter should be either!

 

[soreplums]

I don't agree with this
1. Can you specify what people and culture you refer to? If you are moralizing about of field behavior or quirky difficult types then you don't know much about the history of successful AFL sides in this respect. Collingwood 2010, West Coast 2005/06, North in the 90's, Carlton 85/86 etc etc... The only culture any AFL club needs to worry about is a winning one.. a winning culture based on absolute team commitment and brotherhood.. however that is achieved. Individual and group dynamics aren't replicateable between different individuals and groups like a McDonalds cheeseburger. The best coaches are always able to work with what they've got and get the best out of them.
2. You are easily pleased and happy to settle for mediocrity. I don't think Eddy will be; nor hopefully will the rest of the board. No real Collingwood supporter should be either!

1. Not referring to specific people. Looking at strong organisational values and the behaviours that need to be expressed to develop that winning culture. The three clubs to look at in recent history are hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney. They all went through culture changes to help put them in the position they are in now where they compete for continued success. This is the path that we are on.


2. Not true. Success is outcome based and I agree that a winning culture needs to be built, but I know that it is a planned process and not something that you are automatically entitled too. You need to have the right people buy in.