National Broadband Network

[Ice-Wolf]

Let's try one more time; I am calling it a white elephant because:

- the scope is wrong
- the budget is wrong
- the management is wrong
- the contracting is wrong

The NBN should be built but it should have the right scope, be rolled out at the right pace, be managed well and contracted better.

$94B is too much for a phase 1 roll out. Even at $45B it is too much for a first phase.

Glad you weren't around when the CAN was built, or the Telegraph before it.

 

[Power Raid]

No, I am asking you if you aware of technology that will be better than FTTH which is what you're implying, not your opinion on the structure of the NBN roll out. Simple yes or no will suffice.

yes, personally I believe FTTH is the best technology



but I wouldn't roll this out as the ubiquitously.

I would also tax property owners for the roll out/ connection as it adds value to their asset.

 

[Power Raid]

Glad you weren't around when the CAN was built, or the Telegraph before it.

wanting government to have integrity and reveal full costings is terrible;
wanting capable project managers is horrible; and
saying anything wrong about "my precious" is evil


what do you think about 100% cost blow outs?

 

[Power Raid]

Do you feel that you avoided everything, and didn't answer anything?

I feel you do, because you attempted to justify yourself in a second post, but still didn't.



You claim the Government is at fault, but you heartily support big business smashing up the cost.

You question "How much is too much????!@#$?" But laugh at the obscene profits big business is making.

And on top of everything else, you question the benefits of the NBN. Seriously, if you think it's for movie downloads, or pr0n. There is no point in talking to you.

you seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions. I do know the internet is more than just pr0n and movie downloads.

do you want to ask a specific question? I am happy to answer a question if I didn't respond sufficiently previously.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Let's try one more time; I am calling it a white elephant because:

- the scope is wrong
- the budget is wrong
- the management is wrong
- the contracting is wrong

The NBN should be built but it should have the right scope, be rolled out at the right pace, be managed well and contracted better.

$94B is too much for a phase 1 roll out. Even at $45B it is too much for a first phase.

1. Where has this $94B cost come from?
2. What's this talk about "phase 1"? Are there other phases to come?

 

[Power Raid]

1. Where has this $94B cost come from?
2. What's this talk about "phase 1"? Are there other phases to come?

1) The $94B figure was provided by a leading engineering group on the project who explained the cost blow outs were due to contracts falling over as engineering groups fail to gear up, mismanagement of contracting, the scope and normal issue related to major projects.
2) Currently the program is seen as one big phase being rolled out over time. I personally wouldn't take that approach, rather I would complete the project in phases and consider the best technology to be used for each area.

3) I would make property owners pay for the improved infrastructure that increases the value of their assets

 

[yibbida]

1) Malcolm Turnbull

 

[yibbida]

wanting government to have integrity and reveal full costings is terrible;
wanting capable project managers is horrible; and
saying anything wrong about "my precious" is evil


what do you think about 100% cost blow outs?

How the he'll can you support Turnbull's bullshit network then?

 

[Footy Smarts]

1) The $94B figure was provided by a leading engineering group on the project who explained the cost blow outs were due to contracts falling over as engineering groups fail to gear up, mismanagement of contracting, the scope and normal issue related to major projects.

Link?

2) Currently the program is seen as one big phase being rolled out over time. I personally wouldn't take that approach, rather I would complete the project in phases and consider the best technology to be used for each area.

But you said "$94B is too much for a phase 1 roll out". Even if the figure you quote is correct that's for the whole thing. You made it seem like that was for just the first part which is completely disingenuous.

 

[Power Raid]

How the he'll can you support Turnbull's bullshit network then?

I don't support one over the other. I want the best one for the nation.

Personally, I think the both have merits but on balance my attitude is if you are going to do it, do it properly. Thus I would support Labor's plan. The qualification is I don't think a ubiquitous roll out is the right way to go and I don't support how it is being funded. On that basis, I prefer the Liberals.


In a perfect world:
1) Re-assess the scope. Roll out the appropriate technology for the region rather than a one size fits all.
2) Roll out the project so the largest revenues are generated first rather than the most votes
3) Contract in such a way the engineers are aligned
4) Make property owners contribute to the massive free kick they are receiving. This is no different to property developers paying for infrastructure such as power, water and parks.

There are probably 30 or 40 other issues which could be listed if investigated further

 

[Power Raid]

Link?



But you said "$94B is too much for a phase 1 roll out". Even if the figure you quote is correct that's for the whole thing. You made it seem like that was for just the first part which is completely disingenuous.

Footy Smarts the $94B was provided by a director, in the company of other board members, of a major engineering firm picking up the contracts as the smaller engineering firms fail to gear up.


Sorry for the confusion, the total cost provided was $94B. Let's see what the final figure is.

 

[Footy Smarts]

4) Make property owners contribute to the massive free kick they are receiving. This is no different to property developers paying for infrastructure such as power, water and parks.

Do property owners have to pay a specific fee to get themselves connected to the power grid?

 

[yibbida]

Footy Smarts the $94B was provided by a director, in the company of other board members, of a major engineering firm picking up the contracts as the smaller engineering firms fail to gear up.


Sorry for the confusion, the total cost provided was $94B. Let's see what the final figure is.

Like I said before if it's Downer EDI lol

 

[TheMase]

4) Make property owners contribute to the massive free kick they are receiving.

I don't really understand this. If every premise gets connected, everyone benefits. The government exists to serve everyone. Therefore everyone contributes through their taxation or actually in this case through their plan fees.... Therefore everyone that benefits pays for their "free" kick.

Since it benefits everyone I don't really get the issue.

 

[Patrick Bullet]

yes, personally I believe FTTH is the best technology



but I wouldn't roll this out as the ubiquitously.

I would also tax property owners for the roll out/ connection as it adds value to their asset.

Why would it add value if every other house has it? It'll only add value if some houses have it and some don't.

 

[Power Raid]

I don't really understand this. If every premise gets connected, everyone benefits. The government exists to serve everyone. Therefore everyone contributes through their taxation or actually in this case through their plan fees.... Therefore everyone that benefits pays for their "free" kick.

Since it benefits everyone I don't really get the issue.

really?

I don't think that statement is correct.

 

[Power Raid]

Ok, here is the specific question.

Why do you ask "How much is too much?", while laughing at businesses ripping off the Government?

when business is laughing, it reflects the government has lost control of the project. Have you heard of the saying "a fool and their money are soon parted?" Well that is our government.


What I am emphasising is it is great to have good policy but that is all undone if the delivery doesn't meet the spin.

Is it so wrong to say, I want good infrastructure but good management as well?


If the budget was $34B, which is now disclosed as $44B but will cost $94B then something is wrong. Is it not worthwhile taking a deep breathe and getting the project back on track?

 

[Power Raid]

Like I said before if it's Downer EDI lol

wrong

 

[Power Raid]

I don't really understand this. If every premise gets connected, everyone benefits. The government exists to serve everyone. Therefore everyone contributes through their taxation or actually in this case through their plan fees.... Therefore everyone that benefits pays for their "free" kick.

Since it benefits everyone I don't really get the issue.

what is wrong with some capitalist pig property owner paying for internet infrastructure the same way as they would for sinking power lines, connecting sewerage or water?

Why should young non property owners fighting to get into the market have to subsidise those capitalist pigs and then pay more for the value added land?

 

[Power Raid]

Do property owners have to pay a specific fee to get themselves connected to the power grid?

yes,

power, water, sewerage etc etc

 

[Power Raid]

Do property owners have to pay a specific fee to get themselves connected to the power grid?

they even have to contribute 10-20% of their land to the council or pay a fee toward community parks

 

[TheMase]

what is wrong with some capitalist pig property owner paying for internet infrastructure the same way as they would for sinking power lines, connecting sewerage or water?

Why should young non property owners fighting to get into the market have to subsidise those capitalist pigs and then pay more for the value added land?

You mean like me? Young non property owner...
Everyone gets it therefore it is uniform across the board. No advantage to individual property, except those already connected which will have an inflated price due to a competitive advantage over other properties if FTTN goes ahead.

 

[Power Raid]

You mean like me? Young non property owner...
Everyone gets it therefore it is uniform across the board. No advantage to individual property, except those already connected which will have an inflated price due to a competitive advantage over other properties if FTTN goes ahead.

????????

If there is no value add by connecting NBN then we shouldn't connect it

If there is, the the beneficiary should pay. What is wrong with getting someone who can afford $200-800k worth of land contribute to the value add?

 

[Pessimistic]

Its simply the huge savings in connecting everyone at once rather than piecemeal

You can argue public or private till the cows come home but the planning an execution to build lasting infrastructure is the key

 

[Power Raid]

Its simply the huge savings in connecting everyone at once rather than piecemeal

You can argue public or private till the cows come home but the planning an execution to build lasting infrastructure is the key

make it like sewerage and make people pay if they connect or not.