Remove this Banner Ad

National Broadband Network

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dry Rot
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users Tagged users None

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Pessimistic said:
Cant really comment further, but it brought it home to me that the NBN would find plenty of use, even if it was surveillance and other personal intrusions. Whether thats a good or bad thing is another matter.

Fwiw turnbull has said areas where busuness premises are will get fttp, whether they have that already is a different thing.

Our network guy told me A really fast pipe between two offices across the greater melbourne area would be about 200 grand a year.

Also NBN would mean outsourced it infrastructure would be much more common, so IT people in larger organizations might find a job shift happening, so be careful what you wish for
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Have you looked looking at hosted aaS providers with multiple pops ? They would already have the network pipes available, UPSd, monitored etc etc.

We do site to site real time and disaster recovery replication of quite large datasets.

Outsourcing is already occurring where I am. Luckily? for us the IBM guys in India and China have nfi what they are doing so in 5 years time it will swing around and come back in again.

And the business hate it because in India there is only a 2 hour overlap where both countries are functional.
 
Pessimistic said:
We have a requirement at work which would be very simple if most places had reasonably good upload speeds

Basically video collection and sending to a central store, but one or two mb upload speeds wont cut it

As it is we will need to devise a system where people have to collate and mail usb drives around the state
Click to expand...


Could you get multiple physical lines and logically bond them?

http://www.fusionbroadband.com.au/bonding/#&panel1-2
 
My brother likes photography and I am setting up a cloud backup system for his files.

Found he has 600GB. On a standard type home ADSL plan you're uploading for 3 months.

There is so much data, that is not illegally downloaded movies, swimming around on personal hard drives.

Whether we need to slash open a vein of public cash and get a ton of comms companies to stand under it with buckets in order to have a system that will service the need for high data transfer speeds is another question.

Maybe that's the only way we'll ever get it.
 

Log in to remove this Banner Ad

Chief said:
My brother likes photography and I am setting up a cloud backup system for his files.

Found he has 600GB. On a standard type home ADSL plan you're uploading for 3 months.

There is so much data, that is not illegally downloaded movies, swimming around on personal hard drives.

Whether we need to slash open a vein of public cash and get a ton of comms companies to stand under it with buckets in order to have a system that will service the need for high data transfer speeds is another question.

Maybe that's the only way we'll ever get it.
Click to expand...

You could spend $6000 on 60 $99 10gb. 4g wireless plans, it would still take a while
 
How can tax cuts ie not taking someone's OWN money be considered corporate welfare or a gift?

Tax cuts would benefit far more businesses than an NBN. People don't seem to be able to grasp the law of diminishing returns with respect to broadband speed. It really isn't that difficult.

The rampant misology on this thread is mind boggling. I guess at least you have a clue re technology unlike JRoo who just repeats Murdoch in a pavlovian manner as is typical from the moronic FB element on here.

Chief I am glad your brother likes photography. Nice hobby. However, why should taxpayers fund it?

Pessimistic

Were you aware of this? Note FAIRFAX

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business...vity-Commission/2005/04/14/1113251738794.html

Vertical separation of Telstra's wholesale infrastructure from its retail services would be expensive, time-consuming and would involve its own efficiency costs, the commission said in its national competition policy review.
 
medusala said:
How can tax cuts ie not taking someone's OWN money be considered corporate welfare or a gift?

Tax cuts would benefit far more businesses than an NBN. People don't seem to be able to grasp the law of diminishing returns with respect to broadband speed. It really isn't that difficult.

The rampant misology on this thread is mind boggling. I guess at least you have a clue re technology unlike JRoo who just repeats Murdoch in a pavlovian manner as is typical from the moronic FB element on here.

Chief I am glad your brother likes photography. Nice hobby. However, why should taxpayers fund it?

Pessimistic

Were you aware of this? Note FAIRFAX

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business...vity-Commission/2005/04/14/1113251738794.html

Vertical separation of Telstra's wholesale infrastructure from its retail services would be expensive, time-consuming and would involve its own efficiency costs, the commission said in its national competition policy review.
Click to expand...


I can relate to that, my point is the privatisation could have been done better, for perhaps lower sale price. Wasnt one of the main reasons to introduce competition therefore continuous improvement in services ?
That occurrred in wireless which is now beating cable hands dows. At a higher price

Fixed cable is a monopolistic mess
 
medusala said:
People don't seem to be able to grasp the law of diminishing returns with respect to broadband speed. It really isn't that difficult.
Click to expand...

Why don't you explain it then? (I suspect it will be something similar to this article from 2005 which suggested that 1.5Mbps was all that was needed... http://news.investors.com/technolog...s-comes-into-play-when-net-gets-superfast.htm)

In you explanation you need to take into account Nielsen's Law and Paul David’s productivity paradox.
 
Diminishing returns feed into productivity increases as faster, more throughput means lower costs to businesss and their clients.

And doesnt fraudband have even faster diminishing returns ?
 
medusala said:
Chief I am glad your brother likes photography. Nice hobby. However, why should taxpayers fund it?
Click to expand...
If he gets an NBN plan that he pays for, how is that being paid for by taxpayers?
 
Each connection costs what? Each household pays what for said connection?

There has been plenty of analysis on the subject to suggest that unless prices are raised substantially the venture will run at a loss. Taxpayers will cover such loss.

yibbida Diminishing returns is hardly a new phenomenon. Take business for example. 20Mbps is more than enough for most businesses (most of them numerically are small businesses). Lets say some need far more eg IT, media. They are only a very small % in any event. The increase from 20 to 100 Mbps will benefit very few. Marginal utility is very low. That is before we even get to households. Where is the economic benefit to households? See below re usage stats. People are well aware as to what households will use it for. There is no economic benefit from uses mentioned below.

http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/st...l-internet-traffic-during-peak-viewing-times/

re productivity, numerous studies suggest a limited correlation re IT and productivity (and IT is far more than just broadband). Even a study just looking at broadband would be wrong, it has to look at marginal speed not simply access.

How is Nielsens law relevant to a discussion of the economic benefits? That bandwidth usage grows is merely indicative of the link above.

Again - NO economic argument.

Even the boffins as Treasury could NOT produce one that wouldn't be laughed at. You really don't think the government wanted them too?

Suppose that extending a certain highway to dual carriage or putting in a rail link to Tullamarine are both good ideas.

How do you supposed one should work out which provides more value for money?

Thumb in the air? Is that a good way to make investment decisions?

On what basis do you think the economic return from an NBN creates a higher economic return than a cut in the corporate tax rate?
 
medusala said:
Each connection costs what? Each household pays what for said connection?

There has been plenty of analysis on the subject to suggest that unless prices are raised substantially the venture will run at a loss. Taxpayers will cover such loss.
Click to expand...

links? (And not Turnbull's pamphlet)

medusala said:
yibbida Diminishing returns is hardly a new phenomenon. Take business for example. 20Mbps is more than enough for most businesses (most of them numerically are small businesses). Lets say some need far more eg IT, media. They are only a very small % in any event. The increase from 20 to 100 Mbps will benefit very few. Marginal utility is very low. That is before we even get to households. Where is the economic benefit to households? See below re usage stats. People are well aware as to what households will use it for. There is no economic benefit from uses mentioned below.

http://www.theinternetpatrol.com/st...l-internet-traffic-during-peak-viewing-times/

re productivity, numerous studies suggest a limited correlation re IT and productivity (and IT is far more than just broadband). Even a study just looking at broadband would be wrong, it has to look at marginal speed not simply access.
Click to expand...

again, links to the numerous studies?

I found these in about 2 seconds:

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom...tte_Benefits_of_High_Speed_Broadband_2013.pdf

http://www.archive.dbcde.gov.au/2013/september/benefits_of_digital_economy_from_nbn

http://www.deridder.com.au/files/Queensland-30-June.pdf

http://www.commsalliance.com.au/__d...6/8413/Economic-Impact-of-Broadband-final.pdf

http://www.csiro.au/Organisation-St...vity-and-Services-Flagship/Smart-farming.aspx

http://www.ericsson.com/news/1729555

http://www.ericsson.com/res/thecomp...3/socioeconomic-effect-of-broadband-speed.pdf

medusala said:
How is Nielsens law relevant to a discussion of the economic benefits? That bandwidth usage grows is merely indicative of the link above.

Again - NO economic argument.
Click to expand...

If we don't have the bandwidth and other countries do, there will be no impact on economic decisions by investors? In the 21st century? LOL

medusala said:
On what basis do you think the economic return from an NBN creates a higher economic return than a cut in the corporate tax rate?
Click to expand...

On what basis do you think a cut in corporate tax rate will create a higher economic return?

http://www.rossgittins.com/2012/12/the-case-against-lower-company-tax-rate.html

http://www.tai.org.au/node/1930
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Y you have linked to the govt and industry lobbyists. Please. No sound economic modelling there just self interest. We already know treasury numbers were a mess.

Even worse you have linked to Gittins who scrapes the barrel by quoting Stiglitz.

If it were profitable to hire a worker or buy a new machine before the tax, it would still be profitable to do so after the tax ... what is so striking about claims to the contrary is that they fly in the face of elementary economics: no investment, no job that was profitable before the tax increase, will be unprofitable afterward."

By his logic a tax at 90% would still be ok (see Ken Henry and mining tax). A ludicrous assertion from someone who has zero idea of the real world, where the notion of opportunity cost fails to exist. See Stiglitz's train crash vs Hugh Hendry on the topic of Greece.

Here is a tip, perhaps read an article and have a think about it before mindlessly regurgitating articles written by people with no clue.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-235194996.html

The limited body of rigorous empirical analyses linking productivity returns to increased broadband investment suggests that the relationship is extremely complex and contingent upon the presence or absence of other factors. Whilst there is broad agreement that a positive correlation exists between broadband adoption and elements of economic growth relative to a counterfactual of either no internet access or only dial-up access (e.g. GREENSTEIN & McDEVITT, 2009; CRANDALL et al., 2007), the results are not always straightforward. For example: the direction of causality is not always clear (CRANDALL, et al., 2007); the benefits may be diminishing as broadband penetration rises (LEHR, OSORIO, GILLETT & SIRBU, 2006); and the benefits accrued may be limited to specific user groups (FORMAN, GOLDFARB & GREENSTEIN, 2009). Two recent empirical studies using data accrued from observed patterns of different types of broadband adoption (GRIMES, REN & STEVENS, 2009 (GRS) using New Zealand firm-based data and GREENSTEIN & McDEVITT, 2009 (GM) using economy-wide United States data) suggest that gains accrued from broadband investment may be substantially smaller than those projected from earlier qualitative and case studies. In particular, GRS finds that firms using 'fast' broadband were no more productive than firms using standard-speed broadband, even though firms using standard broadband were on average around 10% more productive than firms using dial-up internet access
 
medusala said:
Y you have linked to the govt and industry lobbyists. Please. No sound economic modelling there just self interest. We already know treasury numbers were a mess.

Even worse you have linked to Gittins who scrapes the barrel by quoting Stiglitz.
Click to expand...

Quoting a Nobel prize winning Economist is scraping the barrel? :rolleyes:


And since when has the CSIRO and Deolitte been government and industry lobbyists?
 
medusala said:
Each connection costs what? Each household pays what for said connection?

There has been plenty of analysis on the subject to suggest that unless prices are raised substantially the venture will run at a loss. Taxpayers will cover such loss.
Click to expand...
If the connection is built into the monthly price, what's the problem?

If not, you've got a customer you can sell credit cards, wine subscriptions, electricity supply, gas supply, mobile phones, new cars, guitars, power tools, TVs, cable TV, insurance, footy tickets...
 
medusala said:
20Mbps is more than enough for most businesses (most of them numerically are small businesses). Lets say some need far more eg IT, media. They are only a very small % in any event. The increase from 20 to 100 Mbps will benefit very few.
Click to expand...


Today it probably is but surely the government is spending all this money for the future, not just today? 15 years ago (give or take) a 28.8k modem was enough. Today one of those would struggle to load google. What sort of speeds will we need in 2030? 2050? I don't know and you don't know, but we can be sure it will be more than we need today and the history regarding computer technology suggests it will be much, much more.
 
The deloitte report is headed

Australian government. Department of broadband.....

Chief if the predicted ROI is to occur prices will be very high. Price elasticity of demand happens. See UK where people have been reluctant to pay top £ for super fast broadband
 
Didnt they rate current NBN take up at about 30%, which sees like a similar figure to cable broadband which has been avaialble for quite a few years now ?
 

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

medusala said:
The deloitte report is headed

Australian government. Department of broadband.....

Chief if the predicted ROI is to occur prices will be very high. Price elasticity of demand happens. See UK where people have been reluctant to pay top £ for super fast broadband
Click to expand...

You do know that "super fast broadband" in the UK is Fraudband (fttc) don't you? Where they promise speeds "up to" but don't deliver the promised speeds.

Take up of the 100Mbps plans on the FTTH NBN have exceeded the forecast take up rates.
 
http://delimiter.com.au/2014/01/15/telstra-nbn-co-havent-started-talks-yet/

Telstra yesterday confirmed it had not yet kicked off renewed negotiations with NBN Co over access to its HFC cable and copper networks, as concerns continue to grow that the Coalition’s Broadband Network Project, which has several components highly dependent on the talks succeeding, is likely to be significantly delayed.
Click to expand...

Only 1081 days until the end of 2016 and not one of the 60,000+ nodes has been installed.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad

🥰 Love BigFooty? Join now for free.

Back
Top Bottom