Player Watch Ned Long

[Johno9911]

For me the difference I've seen in his one and a quarter games this year - compared to his matches last year, he's either gotten stronger to or learnt how to stand up/shrug off tackles, something he couldn't do last year.

For a guy on the slower side that lacks breakaway speed, being able to hold ground in a tackle and make a clean dish-off is key, as you don't have the ability to burst away from a tackle to get outside to dispose of the ball. With Titch on the decline Ned could potentially fill a key role in our midfield this year and beyond as that strong contest/defensive tackler midfielder that would compliment the class of Nick and the explosiveness of JDG (and in time big Ed).

Additionally as the next gen of big body mids continue to evolve and get bigger and stronger, a defensive midfielder that can match their size at the contest could become a critical component of midfields across the league.

Having said all of that though - he's put in one excellent performance against a shambles of a Port Adelaide side - so I will temper expectations for now. Hopefully he gets a good run in the next few weeks and can test himself against the likes of Cripps, Henney/Warner and Neale in the coming weeks.

 

[Jen2310]

For me the difference I've seen in his one and a quarter games this year - compared to his matches last year, he's either gotten stronger to or learnt how to stand up/shrug off tackles, something he couldn't do last year.

For a guy on the slower side that lacks breakaway speed, being able to hold ground in a tackle and make a clean dish-off is key, as you don't have the ability to burst away from a tackle to get outside to dispose of the ball. With Titch on the decline Ned could potentially fill a key role in our midfield this year and beyond as that strong contest/defensive tackler midfielder that would compliment the class of Nick and the explosiveness of JDG (and in time big Ed).

Additionally as the next gen of big body mids continue to evolve and get bigger and stronger, a defensive midfielder that can match their size at the contest could become a critical component of midfields across the league.

Having said all of that though - he's put in one excellent performance against a shambles of a Port Adelaide side - so I will temper expectations for now. Hopefully he gets a good run in the next few weeks and can test himself against the likes of Cripps, Henney/Warner and Neale in the coming weeks.

No matter how poor port were, at the end of the day he did go up against very good mids. Rozee. JHF and the like so that can’t be underestimated

 

[Spiral_Out]

Easily the most promising signs we've seen from a fringe player in a long time.

He locked himself as our main inside mid for a while, he ain't sub material, he starts.

 

[nahnah]

The going early reminds me of Kreuger game vs Demons last year, lets see how he backs it up before locking him into any major role

 

[Peters_Nuts]

No matter how poor port were, at the end of the day he did go up against very good mids. Rozee. JHF and the like so that can’t be underestimated

Great point. Port's forward and backline are a dogs breakfast, though Long still had to compete against; Rozee, Wines, JHF, Boak and Drew.

 

[manicpie]

Great point. Port's forward and backline are a dogs breakfast, though Long still had to compete against; Rozee, Wines, JHF, Boak and Drew.

All the data seems to point out that long was a huge reason why we won the way we did. I'd be devastated if he loses his spot but if that's what the club decides then it's fine by me

 

[Chunky Steak]

I enjoy Hoyne's segment each week as the data picks up stuff that the eye misses.

But the reverse is also true and Hoyne's dogmatism when it comes to stats means that he isn't able to account for that. Rather than saying "this is the data and it can help us understand and appreciate what's going on" he insists that it's near infallible and almost all- encompassing. Data doesn't account for the game being played by humans. There's emotional momentum to games, there are key acts that lift a team that won't count as a more than another stat in Champion Data's eyes. All that good stuff that we love, they miss.

Minor gripe: I wish someone down at SEN would teach Hoyney how to pronounce the word "his". Hearing him say "he's" each week does my bloody head in.

And to make it relevant to Ned again, that's by far the best I've seen him utilise that massive rig of his. He needs to tackle hard, back it up with repeat defensive efforts and play "see ball get ball" to stay in the side.

 

[No SPIN]

This is an interesting listen regarding Long! I don’t buy into champion data though Hoyne makes a good point.

Don’t Buy?
The premier stats provider to every AFL Clubs has lauded the performance, ( through their spokesman ) of one of our young kids.
Let’s all just be pleased for the recognition the kid received.
No need to detract from that opinion because you have reservations about Champion data.

Just celebrate the kid!

 

[Peters_Nuts]

Don’t Buy?
The premier stats provider to every AFL Clubs has lauded the performance, ( through their spokesman ) of one of our young kids.
Let’s all just be pleased for the recognition the kid received.
No need to detract from that opinion because you have reservations about Champion data.

Just celebrate the kid!

Not taking anything away from Ned. The eye test could tell you have bloody good he was.

I don't buy into Champion Data too much because I think at times it can over value players and discredit others based on their model. For example, these are the players Champion Data ranks as elite last season; Mitch Hinge, Callan Ward, Pickett, Neal-Bullen, Tom Papley, Justin McInerney.

Just take it with a grain of salt is all.

 

[rand corp]

In a word: encouraging

 

[No SPIN]

Not taking anything away from Ned. The eye test could tell you have bloody good he was.

I don't buy into Champion Data too much because I think at times it can over value players and discredit others based on their model. For example, these are the players Champion Data ranks as elite last season; Mitch Hinge, Callan Ward, Pickett, Neal-Bullen, Tom Papley, Justin McInerney.

Just take it with a grain of salt is all.

You don’t buy the data because you think you have a better grasp on the game?
These guys live and die by the stats they provide, which Clubs rely on almost exclusively.
They will have a definition of Elite that would allow them to justify the rating of these players accordingly.
Unless you have reviewed this definition and concluded these players don’t fit the criteria, then you have no logical basis to question their conclusions.
You have an opinion as we all do - but unlike Champion Data, we are not experts.

 

[Peters_Nuts]

You don’t buy the data because you think you have a better grasp on the game?
These guys live and die by the stats they provide, which Clubs rely on almost exclusively.
They will have a definition of Elite that would allow them to justify the rating of these players accordingly.
Unless you have reviewed this definition and concluded these players don’t fit the criteria, then you have no logical basis to question their conclusions.
You have an opinion as we all do - but unlike Champion Data, we are not experts.

Didn’t think criticising champion data would offend anyone yet here we are

My apologies!

 

[No SPIN]

Didn’t think criticising champion data would offend anyone yet here we are

My apologies!

All good mate.
But just take the praise for Long at face value - no need to diminish it by basically saying you don’t rate CD.

 

[sr36]

All good mate.
But just take the praise for Long at face value - no need to diminish it by basically saying you don’t rate CD.

Champion Data records data. Hoyne though is more than just relaying data - he then uses that data to support his views on games and he regularly does so in a way that assumes causation when all he can see from the data is correllation. Hoyne and his comments are fair game.

 

[No SPIN]

Champion Data records data. Hoyne though is more than just relaying data - he then uses that data to support his views on games and he regularly does so in a way that assumes causation when all he can see from the data is correllation. Hoyne and his comments are fair game.

Of course the data assumes causation- otherwise it would be entirely useless, and Champion data would not have a business.
If you think that Hoyne is misreading the data, then that's an entirely different issue.

 

[sr36]

Of course the data assumes causation- otherwise it would be entirely useless, and Champion data would not have a business.
If you think that Hoyne is misreading the data, then that's an entirely different issue.

Data doesn't assume anything - Hoyne assumes causation from the data. That's my point.

 

[No SPIN]

Data doesn't assume anything - Hoyne assumes causation from the data. That's my point.

Is he any different to any ones else interpreting causation from the same data?
If he is then you have a point, otherwise he's no different to anyone else.

 

[sr36]

Is he any different to any ones else interpreting causation from the same data?
If he is then you have a point, otherwise he's no different to anyone else.

My point is that he isn't any different. He's fair game.

 

[No SPIN]

My point is that he isn't any different. He's fair game.

Mate this is my last comment on this.
If he is NO different to anyone else interpreting causation, then everyone is fair game, not just Hoyne.

 

[sr36]

Mate this is my last comment on this.
If he is NO different to anyone else interpreting causation, then everyone is fair game, not just Hoyne.

We're agreed then. I only commented as you were portraying Hoyne and champion data as unquestionable experts. If there are unquestionable experts in the AFL, it's the coaches and everything they do gets questioned.

 

[Pie eyed]

Really glad Long held his spot.
Had a solid game last week without any razzle.

On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Granit1962]

His last couple of games, especially the Port game gives us cause for optimism. I had high hopes for Ned throughout the preseason until I saw him live on the Gold Coast and I thought he looked too clumsy to make it. I though he looks a cross between Willis and McGough. He has however, has endurance, size, strength, shown an ability to stand up in tackles, while last year he took to long to dispose of the ball, he seems to have improved on that aspect of the game. The other thing of note, Naicous in his post game interview singled out Ned as a pleasure to play with. I am now imagining that he may be that bull of mid we need. If he can keep up his numbers, maintain an ability to dispose of the ball without infringing, I have no doubt his skills will improve. He is a fascinating watch for this evenings game - I hope he is not sub.

 

[sr36]

His last couple of games, especially the Port game gives us cause for optimism. I had high hopes for Ned throughout the preseason until I saw him live on the Gold Coast and I thought he looked too clumsy to make it. I though he looks a cross between Willis and McGough. He has however, has endurance, size, strength, shown an ability to stand up in tackles, while last year he took to long to dispose of the ball, he seems to have improved on that aspect of the game. The other thing of note, Naicous in his post game interview singled out Ned as a pleasure to play with. I am now imagining that he may be that bull of mid we need. If he can keep up his numbers, maintain an ability to dispose of the ball without infringing, I have no doubt his skills will improve. He is a fascinating watch for this evenings game - I hope he is not sub.

There often seems to be an assumption that what you see at 22 is the finished product, but the hard workers continue to improve for the rest of their career. By the sound of what he did to get back on a list, he's a hard worker who you can expect to gradually improve over the next 5 years.

You can see why the Hawks cut him, as they've built a list and game plan that prioritises kicking skills - might depend on which way the game goes as to whether Ned is a long termer or not.

 

[pablo disco bar]

Perfect conditions for the beast

 

[Vicky Park]

He’s the sub.