List Mgmt. New List Manager

[thylacine60]

this place..........

 

[Ricky Mott]

Stop spewing crap, Ellis wasn't offered anything near what you posted to play for the Blues, hence why he's playing at the GC and not us.

He’s not playing for Carlton on that money because SOS stopped his mate giving it to him. Fact!

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Once incredibly tiresome, the SOS fanboys have actually become quite cute.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Once incredibly tiresome, the SOS fanboys have actually become quite cute.

Cute like a migraine.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Cute like a migraine.

It's at least provided some insight into what playing on SOS would have been like... Their dogged approach is very much moulded on the example set by their god.

 

[Arr0w]

Will be interesting to see if they do replace SOS, or absorb the role. If it's the later, wondering who has the final say on list management/trading/drafting

 

[DirkDiggler]

The board are asleep at the wheel. Liddle will get his way. Liddle’s mates Agresta and Llyod will look after List Management. Club has failed in enticing an experience List manager. Ordinary short list has been put together. What a balls up! Worrying times ahead if Lloyd has anything to do with List Management.

Do you write for the Herald Sun? Some sensationalist stuff there

 

[BlueJet]

Do you write for the Herald Sun? Some sensationalist stuff there

The Hun at least tries to paint their drivel as having somehow evolved with time,
RM's post is effectively a copy/paste of what they've been saying on the topic for the last few months.

 

[Wickzki]

The board are asleep at the wheel. Liddle will get his way. Liddle’s mates Agresta and Llyod will look after List Management. Club has failed in enticing an experience List manager. Ordinary short list has been put together. What a balls up! Worrying times ahead if Lloyd has anything to do with List Management.

Not sure if attacking Silvagni here or Liddle.

Surely nobody attacks both...

Limp Bizkit wants you to keep trollin' trollin' trollin'

 

[Arr0w]

Seems there are still some strong factions on this board

Would be interested to known what the preferances are on both sides of the fence

Who and or what type of List Manager do you want at the club

I still prefer a strong negotiator, one that will still look at a bang for buck FA/Trade option/s, while still topping up on youth, each and every year

"Trade for needs, draft best available"

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Seems there are still some strong factions on this board

Would be interested to known what the preferances are on both sides of the fence

Who and or what type of List Manager do you want at the club

I still prefer a strong negotiator, one that will still look at a bang for buck FA/Trade option/s, while still topping up on youth, each and every year

"Trade for needs, draft best available"

Would definitely like to see us get more creative in the rookie draft, targeting high upside players (Phillips a step in the right direction). Would also like us to bring in more mature WAFL/SANFL/VFL talent. Also not against acquiring more of the cheaper "B-grade" free agents who fill a need, in the Newnes mould.

Agree that we need to keep bringing youth in wherever possible, but so much of the list is already set with talented young players covering almost every line.

 

[Wickzki]

Seems there are still some strong factions on this board

Would be interested to known what the preferances are on both sides of the fence

Who and or what type of List Manager do you want at the club

I still prefer a strong negotiator, one that will still look at a bang for buck FA/Trade option/s, while still topping up on youth, each and every year

"Trade for needs, draft best available"

A strong negotiator who at this stage is better skilled at free agency and trades than the draft.

Mind you, I don't want a slouch at the draft but if we're still praying that our draft picks become key parts of our nucleus it means that SOS got it wrong and that an unfortunate percentage of our high level draftees over the past half-decade have fallen short of our expectation. At this point we want to find the players who will complement in the draft and those players don't need to be mid-to-high first rounders.

Getting in the free agents, undervalued trade targets, etc. to solidify missing ingredients in the best 22 and depth players is where it needs to be for us. If we get a diamond in the rough then fantastic but we need the secondary pieces now.

Need a list manager like the Hawks had immediately before and throughout their run. I want someone who can spot a Josh Gibson, knows his value to his current club but more so his value to us being greater than the former and will go out and get him.

 

[Arr0w]

Would definitely like to see us get more creative in the rookie draft, targeting high upside players (Phillips a step in the right direction). Would also like us to bring in more mature WAFL/SANFL/VFL talent. Also not against acquiring more of the cheaper "B-grade" free agents who fill a need, in the Newnes mould.

Agree that we need to keep bringing youth in wherever possible, but so much of the list is already set with talented young players covering almost every line.

So who/what type of list manager do you want, or do you believe someone currently at the clubs should take the reins

 

[Arr0w]

A strong negotiator who at this stage is better skilled at free agency and trades than the draft.

Mind you, I don't want a slouch at the draft but if we're still praying that our draft picks become key parts of our nucleus it means that SOS got it wrong and that an unfortunate percentage of our high level draftees over the past half-decade have fallen short of our expectation. At this point we want to find the players who will complement in the draft and those players don't need to be mid-to-high first rounders.

Getting in the free agents, undervalued trade targets, etc. to solidify missing ingredients in the best 22 and depth players is where it needs to be for us. If we get a diamond in the rough then fantastic but we need the secondary pieces now.

Need a list manager like the Hawks had immediately before and throughout their run. I want someone who can spot a Josh Gibson, knows his value to his current club but more so his value to us being greater than the former and will go out and get him.

Don't disagree, but i still believe you regenerate through youth and plug holes/needs, such as a Newman/Newnes/McGovern

I don't want to do a North, hanging on to senior players too long, while still topping up on bit players and disgarding youth

 

[Wickzki]

Don't disagree, but i still believe you regenerate through youth and plug holes/needs, such as a Newman/Newnes/McGovern

I don't want to do a North, hanging on to senior players too long, while still topping up on bit players and disgarding youth

I agree with you but clearly Cripps/Docherty and younger (2015-now draftees) are the types you build a premiership team around. We let the likes of Jones, Casboult, etc, etc. walk/retire when it's their time to go. We should still have another 5+ years with even the oldest of the youth brigade.

If we have the opportunity to draft someone to their level, fantastic.

If we can trade in a premiership caliber best 22 player who has had a falling out at their current club (e.g. Brian Lake, could be Ollie Wines) you make your play especially if its not going to cost the world.

The problem with North is that they didn't have a premiership caliber nucleus to bring those types in. However, North are on a different playing field business wise to us. We're always going to have a strong supporter base - and will successfully grow our membership as we start our next successful period in club history - but not playing finals and not being competitive is not going to kill us. Not everyone - North being a prime example - can afford to do what SOS did with Carlton. Had North done what SOS did and had it not been successful right away (which holds true to where we're at) they'd quickly, very quickly, find themselves in a similar boat to Fitzroy. Noncompetitive small clubs are simply not financially viable. The AFL won't let another Fitzroy happen but they very well could do a South Melbourne.

 

[Accidental genius]

If two people in a department always agree, one of them is irrelevant in any discussions.

Not if the original ideas come from both and not always from one of them. You may then say they only agree so that next time the other will agree with them. Agreed?

 

[Arr0w]

I agree with you but clearly Cripps/Docherty and younger (2015-now draftees) are the types you build a premiership team around. We let the likes of Jones, Casboult, etc, etc. walk/retire when it's their time to go. We should still have another 5+ years with even the oldest of the youth brigade.

If we have the opportunity to draft someone to their level, fantastic.

If we can trade in a premiership caliber best 22 player who has had a falling out at their current club (e.g. Brian Lake, could be Ollie Wines) you make your play especially if its not going to cost the world.

The problem with North is that they didn't have a premiership caliber nucleus to bring those types in. However, North are on a different playing field business wise to us. We're always going to have a strong supporter base - and will successfully grow our membership as we start our next successful period in club history - but not playing finals and not being competitive is not going to kill us. Not everyone - North being a prime example - can afford to do what SOS did with Carlton. Had North done what SOS did and had it not been successful right away (which holds true to where we're at) they'd quickly, very quickly, find themselves in a similar boat to Fitzroy. Noncompetitive small clubs are simply not financially viable. The AFL won't let another Fitzroy happen but they very well could do a South Melbourne.

It's a fine line Wick.

We have seen in the past bringing in the likes of a Judd, before having a core of talent in a similar age bracket, can be a false dawn, thankfully that has changed, but the hard work of regeneration starts now.

Port and North, while being competitive, failed with their acquisitions, that young core wasn't strong enough

To get a better indication of where our list is at, select a best 26, without the likes of Jones and older, that will give you a better indication of why we need to embrace the draft each year

I want a list manager, that continually has an eye on the medium to long term, short term will take care of itself

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

It's a fine line Wick.

We have seen in the past bringing in the likes of a Judd, before having a core of talent in a similar age bracket, can be a false dawn, thankfully that has changed, but the hard work of regeneration starts now.

Port and North, while being competitive, failed with their acquisitions, that young core wasn't strong enough

To get a better indication of where our list is at, select a best 26, without the likes of Jones and older, that will give you a better indication of why we need to embrace the draft each year

I want a list manager, that continually has an eye on the medium to long term, short term will take care of itself

Intriguing and sensible poInts you raise there Arrow, but i would also like to add, with our new recruiting manager ,do we mostly continue down the SOS path of going down the playing it (mostly) safe and choose mostly best available player, or do we start making more punts on high risk/high reward players ?

Having been burnt by the likes of Troy Menzel and Shaun Hampson in the past, i am not sure, we have to make sure we have got our culture and young player development infrastructure Spot on, before we start rolling the dice again in the draft, even if it is still bit of a lottery, especially once you past the first round these days.

 

[BlueJet]

Not sure if attacking Silvagni here or Liddle.

Surely nobody attacks both...

Limp Bizkit wants you to keep trollin' trollin' trollin'

Reads as a swipe at Liddle, Lloyd and Agresta - I'm not seeing it as having a crack at SOS at all.

Seems there are still some strong factions on this board

Would be interested to known what the preferances are on both sides of the fence

Who and or what type of List Manager do you want at the club

I still prefer a strong negotiator, one that will still look at a bang for buck FA/Trade option/s, while still topping up on youth, each and every year

"Trade for needs, draft best available"

Honestly, without being able to quantify the strengths of the existing recruiting/list management team it's difficult to put a finger on what exactly is required to bolster these areas IMO.
If you were looking for a direct replacement for SOS, a broader skillset/knowledge base would be imperative with specialists reporting into them.
I agree wholeheartedly regarding drafting best available as this ensures a stream of quality prospects coming into the squad & ultimately strengthening your hand at the trade table if needs be.

 

[Arr0w]

Intriguing and sensible poInts you raise there Arrow, but i would also like to add, with our new recruiting manager ,do we mostly continue down the SOS path of going down the playing it (mostly) safe and choose mostly best available player, or do we start making more punts on high risk/high reward players ?

Having been burnt by the likes of Troy Menzel and Shaun Hampson in the past, i am not sure, we have to make sure we have got our culture and young player development infrastructure Spot on, before we start rolling the dice again in the draft, even if it is still bit of a lottery, especially once you past the first round these days.

I think you can do both EJ.

Best available backs in the club/development/playing group, to extract the output based on the talent at hand, no matter the obstacles. Guys like Stack are a great example of late picks in the draft

People say drafting best available is fought with danger, given you may acquire similar types, but I am sure the likes of Dusty, Bont, Cripps could all play in the same team.

Same can be said for Hurley, Bliclavs, Roughead, Cameron, all of which could play both ends of the ground

If you end up with a surplus of talent in a specific area, it becomes a lucrative trade commodity for other needs

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Personally I think the job should be able to be absorbed by the current group. They were actually recruited to the club as specialists in each area and as a group they should have most things covered. As in terms of who should have the final say. I don’t really know because no way is our plan going to be as steadfast as it has been under SOS so whoever has the final say has a bloody tough job because it’s not as simple as simply rebuilding anymore but of getting the exact pieces that we need from limited currency. Both from drafting and trading, both young and old players.
I also suspect the coaching staff will have a lot bigger say in recruiting from now on (Not drafting) so I’d suspect there to be a hell of a lot more group decisions from now on. We probably need someone very rounded and a lot less autocratic then SOS. Also someone who can adapt quickly to change because our plan will change a hell of a lot more year to year then it has over the last 5 years.

 

[BlueTongue]

Will be interesting to see if they do replace SOS, or absorb the role. If it's the later, wondering who has the final say on list management/trading/drafting

Cain Liddle...?

 

[Arr0w]

Cain Liddle...?

Don't even joke BT

 

[HARKER]

I'm somewhat numbed out about the whole situation and am resigned to us getting a 'make-do' instead of the best.

It will likely be something we just have to fix at a later date. It's unfortunate for us to get to this point, but here we are.....again.

 

[DangerousD]

Having been burnt by the likes of Troy Menzel and Shaun Hampson in the past,

I have heard a few refer to Menzel in the same way and i don't see it as a big of a burn as some, Menzel was a great talent and looked like he would be a fantastic player. Skill and talent were not lacking thats for sure, but mental application and all the stuff thats a lot harder to measure and predict were his downfall. Not every pick comes off, but Menzel, perhaps in a better environment would have fared better.

I feel similar in a way to Yarran, the pick was sound, the talent and skill were there, but external factors were not on our side.

I can't remember, but did we pick Menzel knowing he had question marks, regarding his work ethic and stuff like that?