New Stadium required

[Kwality]

Skilled Stadium? Will be a 35,000 seat stadium when next phase of development is completed. 50 minutes by train. Cats only play 7 or 8 games there a year.

Makes more sense than developing Ballarat. Sure Cooky could put together a deal that'd benefit all parties bar the people of Ballarat. If North fans wont go to Geelong, Ballarat would be an enormous waste of money.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/c...ches-in-ballarat/story-e6frfg8o-1226262724764

 

[Pessimistic]

Princes Park ?

First remove carlton from the equation, they overcharged, had surly staff and was hard to get in before bounce time.

The gymnasium - isnt it an open space ? think laterally and run a 'kids club' in there many similar initiatives will get kids and poarents along to unattractive games.

Parking and trams were a probalm but the train line to the zoo was poorly advertied - 5 m walt to the ground.

Biggest problem is lack of lights - dont ever think that could be solved

 

[Kwality]

Princes Park ?

First remove carlton from the equation, they overcharged, had surly staff and was hard to get in before bounce time.

The gymnasium - isnt it an open space ? think laterally and run a 'kids club' in there many similar initiatives will get kids and poarents along to unattractive games.

Parking and trams were a probalm but the train line to the zoo was poorly advertied - 5 m walt to the ground.

Biggest problem is lack of lights - dont ever think that could be solved

Wouldnt expect any support from the Carlton ratepayers, always anti visitors / footy fans.
Melbourne City Council wouldnt support turning back the clock.

A shame really, I liked the place, but then again, I like going to the footy, not dreaming up reasons not to go.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Princes Park ?

First remove carlton from the equation, they overcharged, had surly staff and was hard to get in before bounce time.

The gymnasium - isnt it an open space ? think laterally and run a 'kids club' in there many similar initiatives will get kids and poarents along to unattractive games.

Parking and trams were a probalm but the train line to the zoo was poorly advertied - 5 m walt to the ground.

Biggest problem is lack of lights - dont ever think that could be solved

The big problem was it was always owned by Carlton.

Carlton had no need for a boutique stadium for theirselves and only wanted to screw any other clubs that did.
There was no underlying problem that a decent multi-story carpark and some walking overpasses couldnt have fixed.

 

[azza29]

There was no underlying problem that a decent multi-story carpark and some walking overpasses couldnt have fixed.

True but try getting anything like that built in one of the worst NIMBY areas in Melbourne.

IMO Melbourne doesn't need a 25k seater for the handful of games , Etihad with the top level closed does the job well enough. By my count there were only 12 games at Etihad last year that pulled less than 25k and none below 15k.

What is the point of building a stadium which would only host a handful of matches each year? Sydney has plenty of these and they are a waste of money. Better to have a small number of regularly used and well maintained venues.

 

[adamj1300au]

building a new 25 to 30 k stadium is a short term dream, in the long term is will be to small and a waste of 800m dollars or there abouts.

with the growth of the city expanding all the time buy the time of the completion of the stadium there will be talk of it being made to small n& should of been made to hold 40k.

what is the problem with visy park? (apart from being carltons home), before it was banished from from being an afl venue it had grandstand up grades thanks to john elliott, its close to the city and has decent public transport to get to it?

 

[jd1991]

building a new 25 to 30 k stadium is a short term dream, in the long term is will be to small and a waste of 800m dollars or there abouts.

with the growth of the city expanding all the time buy the time of the completion of the stadium there will be talk of it being made to small n& should of been made to hold 40k.

what is the problem with visy park? (apart from being carltons home), before it was banished from from being an afl venue it had grandstand up grades thanks to john elliott, its close to the city and has decent public transport to get to it?

Visy park - Princess Park unless you are on direct public transport route is a nightmare to get to. By car there is insufficient parking close by - and the traffic chaos that it caused was horrible around the stadium. (I live in Templestowe and preferred to go to Western Oval than Princess Park in the day)

No need for a boutique stadium. Clubs should all be looking at building a support base, to generate a minimum 25k to any game no matter who the opponent is. I know that will not be able to achieve short term, but it should be a medium term goal.

Short term, clubs that have issues with reaching that target should explore other options - eg. Norths hobart for 2 games against non Vic teams and also there want to do the same in Ballarat.

Why cant a Bulldogs side look at Kardina Park for the same. (Geelong are very open at providing this to any team that wishes to avail themselves of this)

 

[azza29]

No need for a boutique stadium. Clubs should all be looking at building a support base, to generate a minimum 25k to any game no matter who the opponent is. I know that will not be able to achieve short term, but it should be a medium term goal.

Exactly. If a club is expecting a sub-20k crowd they can just close level 3 of Etihad, or (if they're Melbourne) level Q of the MCG. No point in building a stadium just to accommodate tiny crowds.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Visy park - Princess Park unless you are on direct public transport route is a nightmare to get to. By car there is insufficient parking close by - and the traffic chaos that it caused was horrible around the stadium. (I live in Templestowe and preferred to go to Western Oval than Princess Park in the day)

No need for a boutique stadium. Clubs should all be looking at building a support base, to generate a minimum 25k to any game no matter who the opponent is. I know that will not be able to achieve short term, but it should be a medium term goal.

Short term, clubs that have issues with reaching that target should explore other options - eg. Norths hobart for 2 games against non Vic teams and also there want to do the same in Ballarat.

Why cant a Bulldogs side look at Kardina Park for the same. (Geelong are very open at providing this to any team that wishes to avail themselves of this)

I think the chance for Visy is long over, for starters I think the AFL ( or independant company ) would have needed to buy it off Carlton, since it was not suitable for Carlton home games.

BUT: Lack of parking has been mentioned a million times.
You just need to build a suitable route from the eastern freeway feed to a multi story carpark. ie spend money.

ALSO: A decent pedestrian way to the Parkville station would be pretty easy. ( A second carpark could be built near here for access by citylink travellers ).

But it wont happen because of the reasons you mentioned above.

Further to that, the expansion of the league has actually reduced the need for additional Stadiums. Ie two Stadiums can be used in Sydney on the same day, and one in gold coast and one in Brisbane on the same day.

The only problem with a small crowd is that Etihad's managment are price gouging to maximise their profits prior to the AFL taking it over. NOTE Profits are not necessarily related to costs and all that crap about closing the top level is smoke and mirrors. ( For example If Apple halved the cost of manufacturing an IPOD they would probably reduce the cost by about five bucks ).

 

[eskabah]

I disagree - I think having 15-30 thousand crowds at docklands is a waste, the atmosphere would be better at a smaller 25-35 thousand oval.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I disagree - I think having 15-30 thousand crowds at docklands is a waste, the atmosphere would be better at a smaller 25-35 thousand oval.

No worse than 40-50 at the G really.

 

[eskabah]

building a new 25 to 30 k stadium is a short term dream, in the long term is will be to small and a waste of 800m dollars or there abouts.

$800M for a 25 - 30 K?

Where does this figure come from?
The revamped Showgrounds is 25 thousand seats and costs $70m ish, Gold Coasts ground is 25 thousand and cost $144M.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

$800M for a 25 - 30 K?

Where does this figure come from?
The revamped Showgrounds is 25 thousand seats and costs $70m ish, Gold Coasts ground is 25 thousand and cost $144M.

I guess we assume if its in Victoria the gov will get involved they will increase the foundations to hold 100 000 even though the architecturally aclaimed roof cant facilitate it , the people building the desalination plant will somehow win the contract even tough they cost twice as much as anyone else and costs will blow out by a factor of 5 or 6.

 

[Inferno]

A boutique stadium of 25-30k in Altona would work well, although you'd need to contractually force North + Dogs to play at least a minimum of 6 games each (preferably 7-8ish) there to make it worth it. Certainly it would be a much better option then redeveloping Princes Park or the Western Oval.

Alternatively both teams are welcome to play home games down at Geelong

I guess we assume if its in Victoria the gov will get involved they will increase the foundations to hold 100 000 even though the architecturally aclaimed roof cant facilitate it , the people building the desalination plant will somehow win the contract even tough they cost twice as much as anyone else and costs will blow out by a factor of 5 or 6.

Nah the construction can be done my the same guys who made Myki, they already have experience in making things they have no experience in.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

A boutique stadium of 25-30k in Altona would work well, although you'd need to contractually force North + Dogs to play at least a minimum of 6 games each (preferably 7-8ish) there to make it worth it. Certainly it would be a much better option then redeveloping Princes Park or the Western Oval.

Alternatively both teams are welcome to play home games down at Geelong



Nah the construction can be done my the same guys who made Myki, they already have experience in making things they have no experience in.

Like the baseball park.

 

[jd1991]

I disagree - I think having 15-30 thousand crowds at docklands is a waste, the atmosphere would be better at a smaller 25-35 thousand oval.

What I am suggesting is that all clubs should be looking at medium term to establish a minimum crowd support of 30k to any game no matter the opponent. This should be the aspiration of all clubs. They should set plans in place to achieve this, if they need to work with the AFL administration in developing an approach to assist in building the regularity of patronage to undertake this.

For the smaller Vic based AFL clubs, there is a method that the Hawks have used, that can be used by other clubs.

What the Hawks did was identify an area that was not serviced directly by an AFL club (ie Tassie). This areas other major component is that it provided strong net inflows of migration (internal Australian migration) to Melbourne. It then committed that it was not just about an income boost but a long term strategy to boost there membership and support above the standard Vic club increase, by committing to this.

As such, Tassie has a net migration to melbourne. Hawks become of the years the number 1 supported side via juniors in Tassie (as its hard to convert adults from one club to another). A percentage of these junior supporters when reaching adult hood will migrate to melbourne, thus increasing the Hawks melbourne based members above the Victorian competetion average.

The examples in a couple of games last year against poorly supported (in Victoria) non Vic teams is that Hawks played Port (when they were abysmal) and got 28K to the game. When we played Fremantle we got 33k to the game. They are now good basis going fwd to continue to build on.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What I am suggesting is that all clubs should be looking at medium term to establish a minimum crowd support of 30k to any game no matter the opponent. This should be the aspiration of all clubs. They should set plans in place to achieve this, if they need to work with the AFL administration in developing an approach to assist in building the regularity of patronage to undertake this.

For the smaller Vic based AFL clubs, there is a method that the Hawks have used, that can be used by other clubs.

What the Hawks did was identify an area that was not serviced directly by an AFL club (ie Tassie). This areas other major component is that it provided strong net inflows of migration (internal Australian migration) to Melbourne. It then committed that it was not just about an income boost but a long term strategy to boost there membership and support above the standard Vic club increase, by committing to this.

As such, Tassie has a net migration to melbourne. Hawks become of the years the number 1 supported side via juniors in Tassie (as its hard to convert adults from one club to another). A percentage of these junior supporters when reaching adult hood will migrate to melbourne, thus increasing the Hawks melbourne based members above the Victorian competetion average.

The examples in a couple of games last year against poorly supported (in Victoria) non Vic teams is that Hawks played Port (when they were abysmal) and got 28K to the game. When we played Fremantle we got 33k to the game. They are now good basis going fwd to continue to build on.

If you got to the point where all teams generated similar support, you would still get a discrepancy where say a Collingwood /Carlton game would draw 100 000 but a Collingwood /WestCoast would draw far less.

In practise those sorts of levels are still a long way off.

 

[jd1991]

If you got to the point where all teams generated similar support, you would still get a discrepancy where say a Collingwood /Carlton game would draw 100 000 but a Collingwood /WestCoast would draw far less.

In practise those sorts of levels are still a long way off.

I agree they are a long way off. What I am, suggesting is that a club no matter the opposition try to increase the minimum turn out. When ever you have 2 teams from the same state, you will have a higher number of people attending. And when you have two higher drawing teams, this will be a higher attendance again.

Instead of stating that all our problems will be solved by having a boutique stadium, all clubs should aim to increase there minimum attendance. This is what I am by a aspirational goal. Its not achievable short term, but for a number of clubs it will be achievable medium term.

This then does away with the need to have a boutique ground in Melbourne. Short term I also listed some options: -
1. Look at Geelongs ground
2. Investigate the use of major regional centres (north with Ballarat) There is also Bendigo and Albury/wadonga also as possibilities.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I agree they are a long way off. What I am, suggesting is that a club no matter the opposition try to increase the minimum turn out. When ever you have 2 teams from the same state, you will have a higher number of people attending. And when you have two higher drawing teams, this will be a higher attendance again.

Instead of stating that all our problems will be solved by having a boutique stadium, all clubs should aim to increase there minimum attendance. This is what I am by a aspirational goal. Its not achievable short term, but for a number of clubs it will be achievable medium term.

This then does away with the need to have a boutique ground in Melbourne. Short term I also listed some options: -
1. Look at Geelongs ground
2. Investigate the use of major regional centres (north with Ballarat) There is also Bendigo and Albury/wadonga also as possibilities.

It won't help, we'd then need a bigger ground than Etihad to hold the crowd for the big games.
Regional Centre's suck, Imagine ( in the future ) the Darwin team travelling to melbourne, then needing to get on a bus to Bendigo, ( though Wadonga would be a great option for something like Nth vs GWS ).

 

[Inferno]

Like the baseball park.

Your point? If there was an AFL stadium there I imagine it would be a little bit more catered for i.e. exits from the freeway and a new station/walkway from Laverton station.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Your point? If there was an AFL stadium there I imagine it would be a little bit more catered for i.e. exits from the freeway and a new station/walkway from Laverton station.

I actually used to go to the Baseball a bit in Perth, ( started off when they were giving away free tickets ) at the WACA and the Baseball park there.
Tried in when I moved to vic, but the altomsphere and journey out there wasn't the same.
For every reason Waverly failed, Altona would fail.

 

[eskabah]

For every reason Waverly failed, Altona would fail.

In 1998 the average crowd at Waverley was 33,000, and the one final they played that year they got 50,000. They AFL hang their hat on having the 3rd highest average attendence to a sporting league when they got 36,000 which may have dropped down the list with the introduction of GC and GWS, but the average crowd in 2011 was 34,893, almost all AFL grounds these days have a much better transport infustructure.

So was Waverley really a failure?

 

[Kwality]

With the benefit of hindsight I believe the AFL would have been able to gain more from the closure of Waverley but I'm not sure any of the basic decisions would change.

Was it a success, certainly wasnt a failure.

 

[eskabah]

Good point Kwality, it never became what it was intended to be, but it was a usable suburban ground, and still could be today. If made to a more sizable 40-50,000, and with the implement of Eastlink, it had potential.

But what was said earlier about Altona, I think is Valid. The AFL could consult with the Victorian Gov. and find an area out west, amongst the new developments, somewhere close to a train station and a freeway for access. Purchase the land with the plan of using it as a smaller suburban Foootball Oval, lets say 40,000 ish. It could even long term be the home of the Bulldogs with a few other teams playing the odd game, for the sake of their supporters in that area. I think it would be a worthy investment, now that the East and South East is so bloody expensive.

 

[blaze036]

The AFL has already made 2 new stadiums... making a 3rd new one in perth. Upgrading skill, upgrading AO, upgrading MCG, upgrading SCG, upgrading a tassy ground (i think).

All this is either about to happen, has very recently happened or is happening now. How much money does the AFL have for stadiums? already a TONNE of work being done.