Toast Nic Naitanui #1 Ranked player in AFL

[WCE_phil]

There's actually a really simple way to do this. How does the team perform when the player is in team / on the ground as opposed to when they aren't.

On that basis I would say Nicnat is easily the most influential player in the competition over the course of this season.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Best player arguable and it's very difficult to compare players who play in different positions anyway, especially when there is so much variation even amongst players who on paper play the exact same position. Which is what Champion Data is trying to do.

Best ruckman though? No contest.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Best player arguable and it's very difficult to compare players who play in different positions anyway, especially when there is so much variation even amongst players who on paper play the exact same position. Which is what Champion Data is trying to do.

Best ruckman though? No contest.

Do you think Melbourne fans would prefer Nic over Gawn?
If you did a survey of the fans of the other 16 clubs other than West Coast and Melbourne do you think the survey would say Nic or Gawn is the best ruckman in the comp? Totally different ruckman, both great at what they do.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Do you think Melbourne fans would prefer Nic over Gawn?
If you did a survey of the fans of the other 16 clubs other than West Coast and Melbourne do you think the survey would say Nic or Gawn is the best ruckman in the comp? Totally different ruckman, both great at what they do.

No idea, and don't really care either.

Melbourne fans probably still think they were right in picking Jack Watts over Nic Nat.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

No idea, and don't really care either.

Melbourne fans probably still think they were right in picking Jack Watts over Nic Nat.

The point is we all rate our own higher.
Nic is a midfielder who is good at the ruck knocks.
Gawn is a genuine ruckman in the traditional sense.
Not comparable I don’t think.
Maybe we should be asking how NN stacks up as a midfielder in the comp.

 

[Goldfish]

Do you think Melbourne fans would prefer Nic over Gawn?
If you did a survey of the fans of the other 16 clubs other than West Coast and Melbourne do you think the survey would say Nic or Gawn is the best ruckman in the comp? Totally different ruckman, both great at what they do.

Leaving WCE and Melb fans out, would be very interesting to see who would lean one way or the other. Probably depends on how much football you watch tbh, I haven't watched enough Melbourne this year to give an unbiased assessment, and I daresay not many Melbourne supporters would have watched enough WCE to have an unbiased opinion either.

 

[WCE_phil]

The point is we all rate our own higher.
Nic is a midfielder who is good at the ruck knocks.
Gawn is a genuine ruckman in the traditional sense.
Not comparable I don’t think.
Maybe we should be asking how NN stacks up as a midfielder in the comp.

5th best clearance midfielder in the comp.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

5th best clearance midfielder in the comp.

Which leads me to believe this is where he fits. He has been bloody great this year.

 

[Doashuey]

Do you think Melbourne fans would prefer Nic over Gawn?
If you did a survey of the fans of the other 16 clubs other than West Coast and Melbourne do you think the survey would say Nic or Gawn is the best ruckman in the comp? Totally different ruckman, both great at what they do.

Assuming the surveyed fans watch both players closely and had some footy IQ, I would say it depends on their midfield.
A team like the Dogs with a very strong midfield that is very good at winning contested ball would probably be better off with Gawn, who could also strengthen their aerial work down back where they are a bit undersized.
A team like the Gold Coast or Hawks, or even Pies (even with Grundy they lose twice as many clearances as they win) with a much shallower midfield could really use a clearance beast like NN to get the ball moving their way from stoppages.

Both excellent players but bring different things to the table so each will be a better fit for different teams. That said, NN will definitely bring more punters through the gates.

 

[Campaigner for good]

What I find most remarkable about Naitanui is what he is achieving without one of his biggest differentiators... Since his second knee reco I don't believe that he has had anywhere near the vertical leap he once had, I think he is about average these days. But, he compensates with elite timing and strength. And then once he gets his hands to it he still has his elite ability to direct the ball down to advantage.

 

[baby pluto]

This is not a contest or a boxing match. I have my reasons, you have yours. I agree to disagree. we will leave it at that. Clutching at straws has negative and competitive connotations which is not what I am trying to do here. as long as we can have a debate that is emotionally detached, fastidiously civil, and unimpeachably rational, I am good. I am guilty of it myself for not following it all the time. At least I try.

Based on my opinion, Nic Nat is not even close since this is based on an overall best player not by position. Tom Stewart has had a better more consistent year. Toby Green has had more impact , Jarryd Lyons, Zac Bailey and Hugh McCluggage come to mind. David Mundy comes to mind in terms of consistency and impact. Tom Hawkins and even selwood had better season. Touk Miller from suns is also massive. Salem, may, lever, Patracca and Oliver all had a better season than Nic Nat. It is not reputation, it is form and outcome and for you to say Nic Nat had a better year than Dusty last and this year, goes to show how vastly biased you are towards NN. There is no other justification.

There are at least few more players from swans, port and dogs that would have been way more consistent than NN is year.

Zac Bailey has had a better year than Naitanui? You’re an idiot.

 

[eaglespremiers]

for you to say Nic Nat had a better year than Dusty last and this year, goes to show how vastly biased you are towards NN. There is no other justification.

Your argument seems to be:
1. Naitanui has flaws (yes, he does)
2. Naitanui's flaws are to such an extent that impacts his output as a ruckman and limits his current standing (I disagree, I think he exemplifies the best type of ruckman and every other ruckman has far greater flaws)
3. there are more consistent players in the competition (possible, what's that got to do with his ranking this season? Consistency is one consideration in the discussion of the best player. However, he's definitely been the most consistent West Coast player)
4. here's a list of players who have been better (no, I don't accept your list. Bontempelli, Miller, Wines and maybe one or two others may have claims to be better this year but the list is short (and does not include Gawn). I completely reject your position that Martin has been better in 2020-2021. Naitanui's form was and is indisputably better than Dustin Martin's over the last two seasons. There is no way to reconcile your position with the statistics or the legitimate impact that either player had during this period. And any appeal to last year's finals series does not validate your position).

Your claims of my bias are baseless and reflect a desperate attempt to discredit the more legitimate position.
Despite my frustration with your tactics of proffering a position without statistical support or any form of merit I can assure you that I am not getting emotional. I simply would like to know your grounds for your opinion. You continually fail to provide that.

 

[WCE_phil]

greatwhiteshark said:
The point is we all rate our own higher.
Nic is a midfielder who is good at the ruck knocks.
Gawn is a genuine ruckman in the traditional sense.
Not comparable I don’t think.
Maybe we should be asking how NN stacks up as a midfielder in the comp.

5th best clearance midfielder in the comp.

Isolation induced Sociopath.
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Reactions:Goldfish and greatwhiteshark

Now if anyone would like to tell me of any midfielders are rating as Ruckmen it might highlight the perspective.

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

Your argument seems to be:
1. Naitanui has flaws (yes, he does)
2. Naitanui's flaws are to such an extent that impacts his output as a ruckman and limits his current standing (I disagree, I think he exemplifies the best type of ruckman and every other ruckman has far greater flaws)
3. there are more consistent players in the competition (possible, what's that got to do with his ranking this season? Consistency is one consideration in the discussion of the best player. However, he's definitely been the most consistent West Coast player)
4. here's a list of players who have been better (no, I don't accept your list. Bontempelli, Miller, Wines and maybe one or two others may have claims to be better this year but the list is short (and does not include Gawn). I completely reject your position that Martin has been better in 2020-2021. Naitanui's form was and is indisputably better than Dustin Martin's over the last two seasons. There is no way to reconcile your position with the statistics or the legitimate impact that either player had during this period. And any appeal to last year's finals series does not validate your position).

Your claims of my bias are baseless and reflect a desperate attempt to discredit the more legitimate position.
Despite my frustration with your tactics of proffering a position without statistical support or any form of merit I can assure you that I am not getting emotional. I simply would like to know your grounds for your opinion. You continually fail to provide that.

Naitanui's form was and is indisputably better than Dustin Martin's over the last two seasons.

That comment right there was the end of this conversation. God bless you and take care. Oh, dear. indisputably better?hahahaha

 

[eaglespremiers]

Naitanui's form was and is indisputably better than Dustin Martin's over the last two seasons.

That comment right there was the end of this conversation. God bless you and take care. Oh, dear. indisputably better?hahahaha

You are beyond delusional.

 

[BeornJ]

Some people here would be great people to invite to a birthday party!

'A jolly good fellow? That's a stretch. Amiable sure but jolly is a massive reach. And in regards to 'so says all of us' I counted at least three people not singing that portion of the song including Grandpa over there! '

 

[Truckosaurus]

Some people see the glass as half full, some see it as half empty, and some think that half a glass some other guy has looks better than the half a glass they're holding.

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

You are beyond delusional.

your fishing tactics are as good as your footy IQ. It's cute.

 

[eaglespremiers]

your fishing tactics are as good as your footy IQ. It's cute.

I think you are confused as to who is the troll here.
I will leave you to your own devices. Nothing more can be gained from me interacting with you on this topic.

 

[Quinz]

Karim Abdul Yeo = Nima = Garry Lyon

 

[THE A5]

your fishing tactics are as good as your footy EQ. It's cute.

EFA

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

Karim Abdul Yeo = Nima = Garry Lyon

hahah.

 

[Wedgetailed Westerner]

Dude if you think I need to provide you with more evidence to justify if those names mentioned are far better than Nic nat than me and you have a different way of looking at the game. remotely accurate?? are you going to tell me Nic Nat has dusty and Bont covered?? on what basis?? the data?? there is heaps of leaks on that data mate. But in this case you d not even need to get into the details of flaws within that data. God gave you a pair of eyes. Unless you only just watch Eagles play and not really interested in the game overall. There is nothing, and I say this respectfully, outside the Data provided, there is nothing you could say to mount an argument that Nic Nat is the best player in the competition. If you played footy and watched footy you should know better that this is a laughable statement. Concession?? of course Nic Nat is a good player and top 20, there is a massive difference between top 20 to top 10 then to top 5 and the best. He does not even come close.

If you read the OP correctly and most other posts, discounting yours of course, you will realise that it is for the year, not in general. All those players you tried to use as an example have as eaglespremiers has said have not had good years. Using said players to try and prove your point, to me looks foolish.
Do I believe he is better than the Bont? In certain areas he is and certain areas he's not. But you can't argue he us the best ruckman in the comp. Gawn is the closest but they are two different Ruckman who play different ways.

 

[Karim Abdul Yeo]

If you read the OP correctly and most other posts, discounting yours of course, you will realise that it is for the year, not in general. All those players you tried to use as an example have as eaglespremiers has said have not had good years. Using said players to try and prove your point, to me looks foolish.
Do I believe he is better than the Bont? In certain areas he is and certain areas he's not. But you can't argue he us the best ruckman in the comp. Gawn is the closest but they are two different Ruckman who play different ways.

Oh, dear. God bless and take care.NN dominates Dusty and now it appears that he has bont covered too. Keep them coming. This is great read.

 

[WCErevival]

The point is we all rate our own higher.
Nic is a midfielder who is good at the ruck knocks.
Gawn is a genuine ruckman in the traditional sense.
Not comparable I don’t think.
Maybe we should be asking how NN stacks up as a midfielder in the comp.

You could swap their descriptions. Nics game is all about his tap work and centre clearances (traditional ruckman). Gawns is more about disposals and helping out around the ground.