He will be AA, both him and Gawn will be and both will be very worthy.
Toast Nic Naitanui #1 Ranked player in AFL
- Thread starter BeornJ
- Start date
- Tagged users None
He will be AA, both him and Gawn will be and both will be very worthy.
Expert commentators are stumped trying to split the AFL’s top big men, but Champion Data says the answer is obvious.
Trying to choose which of the AFL’s top ruckmen will line up for the opening bounce in the All-Australian team is one of the biggest calls for selectors of the team of the year.
Superstars Max Gawn and Brodie Grundy have been dominant at stages, Tom Hickey has been a surprise packet at the Swans and Sean Darcy is on fire for the Dockers in the second half of the season.
But Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne says unfairly maligned big man Nic Naitanui is head and shoulders ahead of the pack.
“I love the conversation at the this time of the year, there’s four weeks to go and people are starting to get their All-Australian teams going,” he said on a new episode of Pure Footy, the weekly analysis show exclusive to heraldsun.com.au.
“We’re talking about ruckmen and we’re talking about Sean Darcy, who is flying at the moment and coming home strong, Max Gawn is automatically up there in a lot of people’s eyes as the All-Australian ruckman. For me it’s not even a question in terms of who’s an All-Australian ruckman this year.
“How anyone can argue with him not being All-Australian is beyond me.
“This guy just gets judged so harshly.
“In every category for a ruckman — he’s first in every area, and by a long way.”
This season Naitanui is the No. 1 ranked ruckman for contested possessions, clearances, centre clearances and hitouts to advantage, and second for score involvements.
And another number makes his performances even more astounding.
“He’s playing 68 per cent game time. His peers, the top five ruckmen in the competition, are all playing at least 80 per cent game time — Max Gawn is playing 91 per cent — and he’s still by far and away the No. 1 ruckman in the competition in all those areas.
“It’s great to see new blood up there, but I think sometimes people can just get sucked in by the new faces and forget about the existing stars who have been there for more than a decade.”
Trying to choose which of the AFL’s top ruckmen will line up for the opening bounce in the All-Australian team is one of the biggest calls for selectors of the team of the year.
Superstars Max Gawn and Brodie Grundy have been dominant at stages, Tom Hickey has been a surprise packet at the Swans and Sean Darcy is on fire for the Dockers in the second half of the season.
But Champion Data analyst Daniel Hoyne says unfairly maligned big man Nic Naitanui is head and shoulders ahead of the pack.
“I love the conversation at the this time of the year, there’s four weeks to go and people are starting to get their All-Australian teams going,” he said on a new episode of Pure Footy, the weekly analysis show exclusive to heraldsun.com.au.
“We’re talking about ruckmen and we’re talking about Sean Darcy, who is flying at the moment and coming home strong, Max Gawn is automatically up there in a lot of people’s eyes as the All-Australian ruckman. For me it’s not even a question in terms of who’s an All-Australian ruckman this year.
“How anyone can argue with him not being All-Australian is beyond me.
“This guy just gets judged so harshly.
“In every category for a ruckman — he’s first in every area, and by a long way.”
This season Naitanui is the No. 1 ranked ruckman for contested possessions, clearances, centre clearances and hitouts to advantage, and second for score involvements.
And another number makes his performances even more astounding.
“He’s playing 68 per cent game time. His peers, the top five ruckmen in the competition, are all playing at least 80 per cent game time — Max Gawn is playing 91 per cent — and he’s still by far and away the No. 1 ruckman in the competition in all those areas.
“It’s great to see new blood up there, but I think sometimes people can just get sucked in by the new faces and forget about the existing stars who have been there for more than a decade.”
Doesnt take enough marks confirmed. Delist.
- Mar 25, 2003
- 35,681
- 28,334
Anyone still saying NicNat is not deserving of being amongst the best players in the competition, and indeed one of the top couple of ruckmen, is just still blinded for various reasons - tall poppy syndrome, not wanting to look outside preconceived biases etc.
I'm not sure if I'd have him #1 (though he is certainly right amongst the best), but I do think he is probably the most influential players on his teams fortunes. I'd love to see a +/- stat in AFL similar to ice hockey, cause I would be 99% sure the disparity between our +/- when NicNat is on and off the field would be amongst the highest in the competition.
In terms of the AA team, it seems pretty clear cut it will be NicNat and Gawn. The two clear stand outs in the ruck. TBH though if I were picking a team to actually play a match, I'd be picking Gawn on his own. You get a player of equal quality, but the 90% game time means no second ruck required. But for a ceremonial team, as the AA is, then both should be in there, and hopefully NicNat gets the bragging rights (two years in a row) of being named in the ruck itself, though that will undoubtedly be a close call for the selection panel.
I'm not sure if I'd have him #1 (though he is certainly right amongst the best), but I do think he is probably the most influential players on his teams fortunes. I'd love to see a +/- stat in AFL similar to ice hockey, cause I would be 99% sure the disparity between our +/- when NicNat is on and off the field would be amongst the highest in the competition.
Not sure this actually increases his standing in the competition. His relatively low game time has certainly introduced an issue into our team structure. Either we have to go with a second ruckman, essentially leaving us down a midfield rotation, or we second ruck with Allen, who is now playing like he is pretty beaten up. We finally decided to go a different path last weekend, though I don't think Gov is fit enough to play ~30% game time in the ruck. But that is a conversation for another thread. NicNat is still a massive asset for us, despite this.
In terms of the AA team, it seems pretty clear cut it will be NicNat and Gawn. The two clear stand outs in the ruck. TBH though if I were picking a team to actually play a match, I'd be picking Gawn on his own. You get a player of equal quality, but the 90% game time means no second ruck required. But for a ceremonial team, as the AA is, then both should be in there, and hopefully NicNat gets the bragging rights (two years in a row) of being named in the ruck itself, though that will undoubtedly be a close call for the selection panel.
Last edited:
Could you link the AA thread? I can't find it anywhere for some reason
Forward Press
Hall of Famer
Analysis - Rolling All-Australian team for 2021
What do you think a ruckmans primary role is? I’d say winning the ball in the middle for your team would have to be up there. Have we gone back in time 25 years? The role rucks play has evolved. Yes, that's important, but so is presence around the ground. Given Dean Cox was the one who...
www.bigfooty.com
Cheers legendAnalysis - Rolling All-Australian team for 2021
What do you think a ruckmans primary role is? I’d say winning the ball in the middle for your team would have to be up there. Have we gone back in time 25 years? The role rucks play has evolved. Yes, that's important, but so is presence around the ground. Given Dean Cox was the one who...
And they were never seen again.
That AA thread is cooked.
Surely opposition supporters notice when Nic Nat beats their own ruckman when we play?
Do they not realise he does that to every ruckman?
Surely opposition supporters notice when Nic Nat beats their own ruckman when we play?
Do they not realise he does that to every ruckman?
Just read the last 2 pages... that Melbourne bloke really doesn't like Nic does he.
- Mar 25, 2003
- 35,681
- 28,334
Mostly that danster guy. You can read his ramblings in the Melbourne thread on the main board. Has less footy IQ than a newt.
That would give our 2 intercepting backmen a chance to go for a run, a bounce and rack up cheap one, two possessions….
win win
Karim Abdul Yeo
Cancelled
- Jul 30, 2013
- 1,404
- 1,936
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #40
most football knowledgeable people in the game?? lol what is that?? you mean adept?? or proficient?? that is so cute.
Karim Abdul Yeo
Cancelled
- Jul 30, 2013
- 1,404
- 1,936
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #41
calm your farm lads. To call Nic Nat the best player in the comp has got to be the funniest thing I have heard. He is good and has some great strengths but to suggest that overall he is the best player in any position is just outright stupid. Dusty, Bont, Neale, half of the Geelong squad, toby green, and many others are ahead of him. It sounds great and looks good and as fan I am happy but let's not kid ourselves here. so funny how the outcome is suited to your own confirmation bias people no longer question the method but the same people used to question champion data if the subject was a different team or player. stay consistent. I will.
Nic Nat a great player mainly solid can be great in patches, certainly not consistent enough to be considered elite. Absolutely no way on earth the best player in the competition. Probably makes top 20 easy. Elliot Yeo fit with few games under his belt probably kills Nic Nat in terms of consistency.
Nic Nat a great player mainly solid can be great in patches, certainly not consistent enough to be considered elite. Absolutely no way on earth the best player in the competition. Probably makes top 20 easy. Elliot Yeo fit with few games under his belt probably kills Nic Nat in terms of consistency.
Good post and points to the football masses, but I expect you will get a strong reply from the WCE Fanboi's.
Karim Abdul Yeo
Cancelled
- Jul 30, 2013
- 1,404
- 1,936
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #43
it takes courage to be different. I know what is coming. thanks.
Truly heroic
In your typical fashion you have not provided one salient reason why we should accept your opinion.
You have listed players that clearly have not been better than Naitanui this year (i.e. Dusty, Neale, "half of the Geelong squad" and Toby Green). None of those are even remotely accurate.
I suppose the biggest takeaway is that you concede that Naitanui "[p]robably makes top 20 easy". That concession from you is huge. So well done.
Karim Abdul Yeo
Cancelled
- Jul 30, 2013
- 1,404
- 1,936
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #47
Dude if you think I need to provide you with more evidence to justify if those names mentioned are far better than Nic nat than me and you have a different way of looking at the game. remotely accurate?? are you going to tell me Nic Nat has dusty and Bont covered?? on what basis?? the data?? there is heaps of leaks on that data mate. But in this case you d not even need to get into the details of flaws within that data. God gave you a pair of eyes. Unless you only just watch Eagles play and not really interested in the game overall. There is nothing, and I say this respectfully, outside the Data provided, there is nothing you could say to mount an argument that Nic Nat is the best player in the competition. If you played footy and watched footy you should know better that this is a laughable statement. Concession?? of course Nic Nat is a good player and top 20, there is a massive difference between top 20 to top 10 then to top 5 and the best. He does not even come close.
- Sep 21, 2004
- 37,273
- 26,196
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Norwood & Liverpool.
Its quite amazing hes playing his best footy now after 2 knees and starting in 2008.
On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
On SM-G925I using BigFooty.com mobile app
Naitanui has played far better football than Dustin Martin in both 2020 and 2021. Outside of the finals last year Martin was a shadow of his former output.
In fact it's been four years since Martin was the best player in the competition for the whole season.
I think you are being swayed by reputation rather than legitimate output.
I do believe that Bontempelli has had a better year than Naitanui, however, I definitely think that Naitanui has been top 5 this season and was thereabouts last season as well.
Your eyes should provide the most compelling reason for Naitanui being elite. The stats are just window dressing.
Your appeal to Naitanui's visible impact fails as well. You are absolutely clutching at straws.
Karim Abdul Yeo
Cancelled
- Jul 30, 2013
- 1,404
- 1,936
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Banned
- #50
This is not a contest or a boxing match. I have my reasons, you have yours. I agree to disagree. we will leave it at that. Clutching at straws has negative and competitive connotations which is not what I am trying to do here. as long as we can have a debate that is emotionally detached, fastidiously civil, and unimpeachably rational, I am good. I am guilty of it myself for not following it all the time. At least I try.
Based on my opinion, Nic Nat is not even close since this is based on an overall best player not by position. Tom Stewart has had a better more consistent year. Toby Green has had more impact , Jarryd Lyons, Zac Bailey and Hugh McCluggage come to mind. David Mundy comes to mind in terms of consistency and impact. Tom Hawkins and even selwood had better season. Touk Miller from suns is also massive. Salem, may, lever, Patracca and Oliver all had a better season than Nic Nat. It is not reputation, it is form and outcome and for you to say Nic Nat had a better year than Dusty last and this year, goes to show how vastly biased you are towards NN. There is no other justification.
There are at least few more players from swans, port and dogs that would have been way more consistent than NN is year.
