List Mgmt. Nick Daicos

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Robroy22

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Posts
4,699
Likes
7,506
Location
Jindabyne
AFL Club
Collingwood
At the risk of sounding insensitive, it sounds like the legend and the story may of inflated his abilities just a tad...

I'm sure he was a very good young player, better than Ablett? Better than Judd? He didn't win a best and fairest did he?


You're not insensitive mate, you just didn't see him. Looking at a few grainy 70's clips of JG and then trying to compare his back catalog to those who've been plastered all over the media in their primes (Judd and Ablett...I'm hoping you're referring to senior because Jnr Ablett wouldn't be fit to lace JG's boots!)

Yeah....He WAS simply that good. He's got Judd and Ablett covered for mine...without the stats being quoted.
And actually people saying Daics was just a very good player have got blindfolds on as well. He was brilliant, every bit as good as Jezza and Baldock and easily superior to the Didaks and Wingards that people try and compare to him these days! Cyril Rioli might have him for speed but Daics was pure DANGER anywhere forward of centre...defenders hated being sent to him, like they did with Peter Hudson because they knew they couldn't stop him. Daics had no weaknesses to exploit.

In my time it's Greening first, Bobby Rose number two and Daicos three. Carman was a costly flash in the pan and Bucks was a machine.
 

35Daicos

Premium Platinum
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Posts
5,874
Likes
6,688
Location
Adelaide
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
Collingwood (VFL), Man Utd.
This gone off Topic
It certainly has, but since young Nick is still years away from (potentially) playing for us, it's not surprising! He's probably lucky to have his own thread at this stage of his development!! When he begins starring in the TAC Cup (and hopefully National Junior Championships) then there'll be a lot more to talk about!
 

Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Posts
13,591
Likes
15,440
AFL Club
Collingwood
You're not insensitive mate, you just didn't see him. Looking at a few grainy 70's clips of JG and then trying to compare his back catalog to those who've been plastered all over the media in their primes (Judd and Ablett...I'm hoping you're referring to senior because Jnr Ablett wouldn't be fit to lace JG's boots!)

Yeah....He WAS simply that good. He's got Judd and Ablett covered for mine...without the stats being quoted.
And actually people saying Daics was just a very good player have got blindfolds on as well. He was brilliant, every bit as good as Jezza and Baldock and easily superior to the Didaks and Wingards that people try and compare to him these days! Cyril Rioli might have him for speed but Daics was pure DANGER anywhere forward of centre...defenders hated being sent to him, like they did with Peter Hudson because they knew they couldn't stop him. Daics had no weaknesses to exploit.

In my time it's Greening first, Bobby Rose number two and Daicos three. Carman was a costly flash in the pan and Bucks was a machine.
So despite the fact players have gotten much better over time, more professional, train a lot more, bigger player pool, better grounds to play on ect ect, you think that the past players are better than modern players? You don't think you have a massive nostalgic bias?
 

jonbe54

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Posts
13,809
Likes
7,974
Location
Rural paradise
AFL Club
Collingwood
It certainly has, but since young Nick is still years away from (potentially) playing for us, it's not surprising! He's probably lucky to have his own thread at this stage of his development!! When he begins starring in the TAC Cup (and hopefully National Junior Championships) then there'll be a lot more to talk about!
Actually I hope he doesn't dominate the TAC and Nats - not just because of the picks we will have to give up but for his own personal development.

Far better for him to be a polished and accomplished young player than 'the next big thing'

Add that to being son of Peter and it's a heavy burden indeed.
 

Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Posts
13,591
Likes
15,440
AFL Club
Collingwood
Actually I hope he doesn't dominate the TAC and Nats - not just because of the picks we will have to give up but for his own personal development.

Far better for him to be a polished and accomplished young player than 'the next big thing'

Add that to being son of Peter and it's a heavy burden indeed.
I hope he dominates to such a degree that he's rated the number 1 pick
 

TradeDraft

Premium Gold
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Posts
116,309
Likes
46,728
Location
Mornington Peninsula
AFL Club
Collingwood
Thread starter #208
It certainly has, but since young Nick is still years away from (potentially) playing for us, it's not surprising! He's probably lucky to have his own thread at this stage of his development!! When he begins starring in the TAC Cup (and hopefully National Junior Championships) then there'll be a lot more to talk about!
Fair Call
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,269
Likes
32,042
AFL Club
Collingwood
You're not insensitive mate, you just didn't see him. Looking at a few grainy 70's clips of JG and then trying to compare his back catalog to those who've been plastered all over the media in their primes (Judd and Ablett...I'm hoping you're referring to senior because Jnr Ablett wouldn't be fit to lace JG's boots!)

Yeah....He WAS simply that good. He's got Judd and Ablett covered for mine...without the stats being quoted.
And actually people saying Daics was just a very good player have got blindfolds on as well. He was brilliant, every bit as good as Jezza and Baldock and easily superior to the Didaks and Wingards that people try and compare to him these days! Cyril Rioli might have him for speed but Daics was pure DANGER anywhere forward of centre...defenders hated being sent to him, like they did with Peter Hudson because they knew they couldn't stop him. Daics had no weaknesses to exploit.

In my time it's Greening first, Bobby Rose number two and Daicos three. Carman was a costly flash in the pan and Bucks was a machine.
Certainly you are right with people downplaying Daicos.

Absolute sublime player.

Cyril sorry not close overall to Daicos as an example.

If Peter Daicos had played for Hawthorn the media and especially Bruce mcavaney would still be going on about him.

For a long time I’ve felt Collingwood greats are somewhat undervalued because many in the media have deep seeded anti Magpie blood cells.
 

Robroy22

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Posts
4,699
Likes
7,506
Location
Jindabyne
AFL Club
Collingwood
So despite the fact players have gotten much better over time, more professional, train a lot more, bigger player pool, better grounds to play on ect ect, you think that the past players are better than modern players? You don't think you have a massive nostalgic bias?

Ever seen Genius at work mate? Watch Federer play tennis...compared to today's best. Watch Kelly Slater surf or Serena Williams still dominating at an age where she should have been well surpassed.
I actually work quite closely with GFC (yeah I know...traitorous aint it? They all give it to me mercilessly if they beat us!) and I've seen lots of the best TAC and AFL talent up close and personal for many years now, so I tend to think I know a little bit about talent when I see it.
You're undoubtedly right that a majority of players have improved over the journey, the middle to lower tier players definitely are better than before, BUT
the absolute cream, the ones that you can tell are a cut above the rest, they haven't changed that much over time. Jono Brown would always have been the dominant forward he became for the Lions. Patrick obviously is a gun (always has been / don't get a big head!) and Charlie Curnow will be unbelievable if he gets a good team around him.
Seeing all of these champs as young men (and Patrick for a lot longer obviously) they're sort've the same age as Johnny Greening was when he was DOMINATING the league. I can confidently state that in my judgement JG was at least two tiers above any junior player I've ever seen. Some say Marcus Whelan, Des Fothergill and Ron Todd we're prodigies as well but Johnny Greening was certainly one.

So you can claim bias if you want mate but sometimes you just might have to admit that someone else may have a valid view.
 

Robroy22

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Posts
4,699
Likes
7,506
Location
Jindabyne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Certainly you are right with people downplaying Daicos.

Absolute sublime player.

Cyril sorry not close overall to Daicos as an example.

If Peter Daicos had played for Hawthorn the media and especially Bruce mcavaney would still be going on about him.

For a long time I’ve felt Collingwood greats are somewhat undervalued because many in the media have deep seeded anti Magpie blood cells.


Sorry Saint, I know Daics was sublime but Cyril was just as dangerous...if in different ways. Cyril was a wonderful player and would have been wherever he played.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Posts
13,591
Likes
15,440
AFL Club
Collingwood
Ever seen Genius at work mate? Watch Federer play tennis...compared to today's best. Watch Kelly Slater surf or Serena Williams still dominating at an age where she should have been well surpassed.
I actually work quite closely with GFC (yeah I know...traitorous aint it? They all give it to me mercilessly if they beat us!) and I've seen lots of the best TAC and AFL talent up close and personal for many years now, so I tend to think I know a little bit about talent when I see it.
You're undoubtedly right that a majority of players have improved over the journey, the middle to lower tier players definitely are better than before, BUT
the absolute cream, the ones that you can tell are a cut above the rest, they haven't changed that much over time. Jono Brown would always have been the dominant forward he became for the Lions. Patrick obviously is a gun (always has been / don't get a big head!) and Charlie Curnow will be unbelievable if he gets a good team around him.
Seeing all of these champs as young men (and Patrick for a lot longer obviously) they're sort've the same age as Johnny Greening was when he was DOMINATING the league. I can confidently state that in my judgement JG was at least two tiers above any junior player I've ever seen. Some say Marcus Whelan, Des Fothergill and Ron Todd we're prodigies as well but Johnny Greening was certainly one.

So you can claim bias if you want mate but sometimes you just might have to admit that someone else may have a valid view.
The fact that the player pool, professionalism and competitiveness have all massively increased over time says that the best players have gotten better over time. The fact that he was able to dominate more in that era compared to now is because of the fact half his opponents probably had a 6pack the night before a game or a pack of ciggies at half time. The defensive tactics of that era were so terrible that no one really knew how to shut down good players apart from hurting them too. Federer and Williams are modern day greats and much better than the players from the 70s no doubt. Like in all sports, players get better over time.

When you say that all the best players you've seen were from the 70s/80s you're clearly looking through an extremely biased nostalgia lens. I mean in the 70s the VFL was an amatuerish suburban league for christ sake, the modern players are undoubtedly so much better overall. Of course there were champions in the past, but you can't compare them to now.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,269
Likes
32,042
AFL Club
Collingwood
Sorry Saint, I know Daics was sublime but Cyril was just as dangerous...if in different ways. Cyril was a wonderful player and would have been wherever he played.
True.

But not as good as Daicos, sorry for me not in that realm.

Rioli was further blessed being in a great team, as it keeps him in good supply.

Daicos played in poor and good teams and just better in my view. Far better.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,269
Likes
32,042
AFL Club
Collingwood
The fact that the player pool, professionalism and competitiveness have all massively increased over time says that the best players have gotten better over time. The fact that he was able to dominate more in that era compared to now is because of the fact half his opponents probably had a 6pack the night before a game or a pack of ciggies at half time. The defensive tactics of that era were so terrible that no one really knew how to shut down good players apart from hurting them too. Federer and Williams are modern day greats and much better than the players from the 70s no doubt. Like in all sports, players get better over time.

When you say that all the best players you've seen were from the 70s/80s you're clearly looking through an extremely biased nostalgia lens. I mean in the 70s the VFL was an amatuerish suburban league for christ sake, the modern players are undoubtedly so much better overall. Of course there were champions in the past, but you can't compare them to now.
To do a poor man’s Kappa.
:eek:

You didn’t talk straight away about today’s generation v previous generations.

You went straight at John Greening saying if someone thought he was a star they had “old timers bias.”
As if you didn’t think that much of John Greening and older supporters were hallucinating.

I don’t recall Greening but everything you read or hear says he was an Uber elite talent.

I’d comfortably make the assumption if Greening was a youngster today with all the training and expertise of today, he’d be an elite player.

If you do not rate him, that’s fine. It’s all fun opinions.

Reminds me of the tale when Don Bradman once visited the West Indies dressing room. I think it was that wag, Pat Patterson who said to the great man:

If you played against us, with our pace bowlers, you’d only average 50.

The Don: well, I am in my eighties....

Class is forever.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Posts
11,328
Likes
14,126
Location
Abbotsford
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #216
The fact that the player pool, professionalism and competitiveness have all massively increased over time says that the best players have gotten better over time. The fact that he was able to dominate more in that era compared to now is because of the fact half his opponents probably had a 6pack the night before a game or a pack of ciggies at half time. The defensive tactics of that era were so terrible that no one really knew how to shut down good players apart from hurting them too. Federer and Williams are modern day greats and much better than the players from the 70s no doubt. Like in all sports, players get better over time.

When you say that all the best players you've seen were from the 70s/80s you're clearly looking through an extremely biased nostalgia lens. I mean in the 70s the VFL was an amatuerish suburban league for christ sake, the modern players are undoubtedly so much better overall. Of course there were champions in the past, but you can't compare them to now.
I always assume this is a different argument. The stars of today given their superiority in size, strength, preperation and living through the development of the modern game would run rings around payers of the past. I make that assumption when I talk of a Greening and when discussing him I am discussing him in context of the era he payed in.
 

Frank Gallagher

Diamond Encrusted Unobtainium Premium Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Posts
9,289
Likes
11,893
AFL Club
Collingwood
He was just electric. Could do everything, exciting, a match winner. Think Daics then go another level or two

Started as a 17 yo 4 month when debuted in 1968. Was round 5 and he only missed 1 game for remainder of the season. From there he played every Collingwood game until round 14 1972 when O'Dea belted him. He was only 21 yo and already had played 98 games. Had 14 votes in the Brownlow after 13 rounds. Thommo won it for us that year but Greening would have possibly won it if he finished the season. He was already a star pre 1972 but he was launching into the stratosphere, was going to be the no 1 payer in the game by seasons end as a 21 yo.

As great as he was Daics never reached that level of dominance. Carmen did in his 1st season in the VFL but was a mature 24 yo. Still that was as exciting as Greening in 72. Missed 8 matches with a leg injury and lost the Brownlow by 4 votes to Gary Dempsey. Dempsey hasd 21 matches to Carmens 14. Wow, later he self imploded so as much as I ioved watching him he doesnt get the sympathy Greening does. Specially after the 77 2nd semi. Why Phil why?
Better than Daicos my ass.
 
Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Posts
11,328
Likes
14,126
Location
Abbotsford
AFL Club
Collingwood
Moderator #218
Certainly you are right with people downplaying Daicos.

Absolute sublime player.

Cyril sorry not close overall to Daicos as an example.

If Peter Daicos had played for Hawthorn the media and especially Bruce mcavaney would still be going on about him.

For a long time I’ve felt Collingwood greats are somewhat undervalued because many in the media have deep seeded anti Magpie blood cells.
I agree there is a tendency to undervalue Collingwood players often but I dont think this applies to Daics. I think Cyril is in a similar class because they both had such a unique style and skillset and did things other players simply just didnt do through their era. Daicos certainly changed the concept of how goals could be kicked. As such because everyone loved watching him so much Daics is highly rated.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,269
Likes
32,042
AFL Club
Collingwood
I agree there is a tendency to undervalue Collingwood players often but I dont think this applies to Daics. I think Cyril is in a similar class because they both had such a unique style and skillset and did things other players simply just didnt do through their era. Daicos certainly changed the concept of how goals could be kicked. As such because everyone loved watching him so much Daics is highly rated.
Fair points re Cyril.
Cyril is a great player, elite. No argument.

But if picking between the two Daicos makes the grade for me ahead of Cyril.
Peter was in games for longer, Peter could destroy opponents from the middle of the ground.

And the numbers are compelling.
For all Cyril’s brilliance he never kicked 50 goals in a season and if I’m not mistaken only twice over 40 goals.
Might have even been stretched to have 30 goal seasons, maybe once or twice more.

He did the brilliant things true, but all that notwithstanding, his career goal kicking average is about 1.46 or so, under a goal and half. Possessions about 15 on average a game.

Peter Daicos kicks 2.2 goals a games, averages 18 possessions a game (in a less possession game era) and compellingly kicked over 50 goals a season 5 times including 97 in our flag of 1990.

Sorry Cyril does not match. Daicos is better for me.
 

Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Posts
13,591
Likes
15,440
AFL Club
Collingwood
To do a poor man’s Kappa.
:eek:

You didn’t talk straight away about today’s generation v previous generations.

You went straight at John Greening saying if someone thought he was a star they had “old timers bias.”
As if you didn’t think that much of John Greening and older supporters were hallucinating.

I don’t recall Greening but everything you read or hear says he was an Uber elite talent.

I’d comfortably make the assumption if Greening was a youngster today with all the training and expertise of today, he’d be an elite player.

If you do not rate him, that’s fine. It’s all fun opinions.

Reminds me of the tale when Don Bradman once visited the West Indies dressing room. I think it was that wag, Pat Patterson who said to the great man:

If you played against us, with our pace bowlers, you’d only average 50.

The Don: well, I am in my eighties....

Class is forever.
Thats not true at all, i said im sure Greening was a very good player I just object to people saying he was better than the best modern players. Modern day players are simply the best AFL footballers there has ever been you cant deny that, but of course there were superstars from the past who deserve recognition.
 

Robroy22

Premiership Player
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Posts
4,699
Likes
7,506
Location
Jindabyne
AFL Club
Collingwood
Thats not true at all, i said im sure Greening was a very good player I just object to people saying he was better than the best modern players. Modern day players are simply the best AFL footballers there has ever been you cant deny that, but of course there were superstars from the past who deserve recognition.

Lol....(just shakes head)
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Posts
41,269
Likes
32,042
AFL Club
Collingwood
Thats not true at all, i said im sure Greening was a very good player I just object to people saying he was better than the best modern players. Modern day players are simply the best AFL footballers there has ever been you cant deny that, but of course there were superstars from the past who deserve recognition.
Yeh, ok.

:think:
 

Kappa

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Posts
13,591
Likes
15,440
AFL Club
Collingwood
Lol....(just shakes head)
Unfortunatley i have overwhelming evidence on my side. We know as the player pool increases (and its increased a huge amount from the 70s) and competiveness increases, the top 5% end up better than the top 5% from the past. Thats just factual, its just evolution, im sorry to burst your nostalgic bubble. No doubt Greening and co are champions of their time but its folly to compare them to other eras
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom