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Leppa on Footy Classified, looks like a bloke who is really feeling the pressure of AFL coaching and doesn't handle the media all that well. Feel sorry for him really. Long, long way to go but can he turn that club around?
 

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Leppa on Footy Classified, looks like a bloke who is really feeling the pressure of AFL coaching and doesn't handle the media all that well. Feel sorry for him really. Long, long way to go but can he turn that club around?
Nah, he's on coaching death row unfortunately.

I do feel for him. Brisbane are in real strife; I'm not sure if the AFL quite realise how much.
 

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So I know Bunk Moreland and Stopher were all over the discussion because of their participation in the main board thread, but who else caught the Fitzroy article on the AFL website last week?

Ham-fisted attempted at whitewashing history at its best.

And I ask why. Why is the AFL still so intent on shitting on the Fitzroy supporters 20 years later and in fact, blatantly misrepresenting not only what happened, but the Fitzroy fans' true feelings on the matter?

They really are a horrible bunch. The people may change, but the overarching ethos doesn't.

For those that didn't see it: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-06-25/the-moment-that-began-fitzroys-long-slow-death

The moment that began Fitzroy's long, slow death
Ashley Browne June 25, 2016 10:00 AM

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Fitzroy getting ready to play their final match in Victoria against Richmond in 1996

Imagine the people who spent their whole lives there watching their club die around them
Former Fitzroy coach Robert Shaw
FITZROY people – players, coaches and supporters – have a variety of opinions and theories about why there is no longer a Fitzroy, at least at AFL level.

And this weekend marks a good time to revisit the dark final few years of the old Fitzroy as the Brisbane Lions take to the MCG on Saturday night in a commemorative jumper ahead of a Hall of Fame event in Melbourne later that evening.

Fitzroy played its last VFL/AFL game in 1996 against Fremantle at Domain Stadium. The end was incredibly sad and the Lions were farewelled with dignity by the Dockers, as they were the week before when they played their final game in Victoria at the MCG against Richmond in front of 48,884.

But the end came as blessed relief for most Fitzroy types. The battle for survival was long and bloody and exacted its toll on pretty much everybody.

"Like a sick dog," said Matthew Rendell, a former Fitzroy captain. "It was almost like 'please put us out of our misery.'"

And it was a long, slow death. As far back as 1962, Lou Richards wrote of his fears for Fitzroy in his autobiographyBoots and All, "Where they are headed for I'd hate to hazard a guess – I feel the future of Fitzroy is none too secure. They are hemmed in between two of the strongest clubs in the League in Collingwood and Carlton."

Who would have picked that 'Louie the Lip' would prove to be so sage? The great man ended up getting it right as after they left the Brunswick Street Oval at the end of 1966, the Lions passed through Princes Park (twice), the Junction Oval, Victoria Park and the Whitten Oval before, mercifully, the administrators were called in during the 1996 season.

Training and administration were equally nomadic. After leaving the Junction Oval in 1985, where at least the players had an indoor gym and their own lockers, they decamped to Northcote where the players hung their clothes on hooks on the wall and the weights were kept in a storage container. "It was horrendous," said Rendell.

The training base then moved to South Melbourne, which was marginally better The office staff moved first to a building in Lygon Street and then to rooms above the Albion Charles Hotel in Northcote.

"We knew we didn't have the best of facilities and we had no money," said Rendell.

"We were downtrodden in a way, but it didn't affect us and it brought us close together. We were the poor citizens."

But they could play a bit. The Lions were first mooted for relocation in 1979 to Sydney and then in 1986 to Brisbane. That move seemed destined to happen with the players giving it their assent at a meeting one Sunday morning after training and for a time it seemed so certain to happen that they even started looking for housing. But a last-minute financial deal came through and the Lions stayed put.

"I just wish we'd gone to Brisbane at the end of 1986," Paul Roos said. "Everyone wanted to go. The players were told. And from that moment on it was the slow death of the club."

Some Fitzroy supporters weren't happy about the merger with the Brisbane Bears. Picture: AFL Media


That year was remarkable in that amid all the uncertainty, the Lions made it all the way to the preliminary final. But their best chance for a flag came three years before, in 1983, during which the side coached by Robert Walls displayed its premiership credentials mid-year with a 150-point belting of first-placed North Melbourne at the Junction Oval.

This was a special side. Bernie Quinlan was kicking them from everywhere and was the best full-forward in the competition, Garry Wilson a champion rover, Rendell among the best ruckmen and Laurie Serafini and Micky Conlan also stars of the game. Paul Roos, Gary Pert and Richard Osborne were on their way to stardom.

Serafini might have inadvertently cost Fitzroy the flag. He was the club's no.1 defender but spent the finals series in the stands nursing the hamstring injury he suffered in the final home-and-away match. Rival key forwards Hawk Peter Knights (six goals) and Bomber Terry Daniher (five) got hold of the Roys in consecutive weeks in the finals to send them to a straight-sets finals exit.

The endless debate among Fitzroy people is whether a flag in either 1983 or 1986 would have kept the wolves from the door.

"No, we'd still be gone, Rendell said. "'Wallsy' said it as early as 1984. We'd just come off our best year, and nearly made the Grand Final, yet our membership went down.

"We just didn't have the financial support. We had some good crowds at games, sometimes up to 30,000 at the Junction and we were a team that people liked to watch, but not enough of them were from the top end of town. Those sort of people followed Carlton and Collingwood while we were the battlers."

The battlers were almost merged with Footscray in an AFL-brokered deal in 1989 before the Dogs fans rattled their tins and saved their club. But the Roys would enjoy one last, brief renaissance under Robert Shaw, who in his third year as coach in 1993 led the team to a 10-10 finish that appeared to be on the verge of making the finals once more.

Under Shaw, the Lions enjoyed some spectacular wins, such as wrecking Essendon's MCG homecoming in 1992, the last-gasp match-winner by Roos over Collingwood the following year and a win at the WACA over reigning premiers West Coast.

What followed that summer tore the heart out of Fitzroy and ultimately destroyed it. Dissatisfied with the financial deal at Princes Park, the Lions moved across town to the Whitten Oval, which disenfranchised many of their remaining supporters.

But that was nothing compared to the outrage when the Brisbane Bears offered Alastair Lynch a stunning 10-year, $2 million deal that he had no choice but to accept. Lynch was coming off a fantastic season in which he won the best and fairest, kicked 68 goals and was named full-back in the All Australian team.

"When 'Lynchy' left Fitzroy he was the best player in the competition," said Roos.

Paul Roos runs through the banner in his 250th game in 1994. Picture: AFL Media


The Lions then lost midfielders Paul Broderick and Michael Gale, and promising defender Jamie Elliott to Richmond. The steady trickle of departing players, which in previous years included stars such as Osborne, Pert and John Blakey, had become a torrent. But Lynch was the killer blow. "We should have shut the door there and then," longtime chairman of selectors, the late Gus Mitchell used to say.

Roos, who had resisted years of overtures from Carlton and Collingwood, would leave at the end of 1994 to join the Sydney Swans. At the same time, Shaw also quit the club to become the new coach of Adelaide.

"After six years (two as reserves coach, four as senior coach) I went home one night and decided I'd had enough," Shaw said.

"Imagine the people who spent their whole lives there watching their club die around them. I wasn't tough enough to handle six years."

The AFL didn't lift much of a finger to save the club. 'Merger' was the still the buzzword of the time and the League was nowhere near as generous with its funding as it is today. The priority for the economic rationalists at the AFL was also to establish second clubs in South Australia and Western Australia.

With no more help on the way, it all petered out from there. Fitzroy won two games in 1995 with an average losing margin of 60 points. The Roys then won just the one game in their final season, by which time the average losing margin had blown out to 72 points.

Supporters' loyalties were split thereafter. Some bolted to North Melbourne, which had unsuccessfully tried to engineer a merger before the Brisbane deal went down. Many – but not all – embraced the Brisbane Lions as better than nothing and with events such as this weekend's Hall of Fame, the Lions do a sound job of honouring the old Fitzroy.

1969 Brownlow medallist Kevin Murray at his Shepparton property. Picture: AFL Media


Kevin Murray, the greatest living Fitzroy player of all, has been steadfast in his support for the merged entity. Roos, despite his affiliations to the Sydney Swans and then Melbourne, has always regarded the Brisbane Lions as his former club. For those who crave the pure football experience, Victorian amateur club Fitzroy wears the jumper, sings the song and plays out of the old Brunswick Street Oval.

These days the greatest legacy left by Fitzroy is the incredibly large number of high-calibre people who passed through its doors and still remain in the game at a senior level. AFL ranks are full of coaches, chief executives and backroom staff who played in the maroon and blue.

Rendell attributes that to the selfless and hard-working culture Walls created in his five years as coach as well as to former administrator Arthur Wilson, who had a keen eye for playing talent with their lives in order as well. Roos said the steady stream of "high-quality" individuals who passed through the doors marked his time at Fitzroy.

"I’m forever indebted to guys like Garry Wilson, Mick Conlan, Bernie Quinlan, Laurie Serafini, for the values they taught me," he said.

"That's the sort of people they are."

For someone like Shaw, an Essendon person first and foremost, his time at Fitzroy left an indelible mark.

"What stood out to me was the people. The players were unbelievably defiant and spirited with all the changes going on and working there every day was pretty inspirational," he said.

"I'm lucky to have Essendon as my base club but it was one of the great experiences of my career to be part of Fitzroy."

Alastair Lynch, Robert Shaw and Michael Dunstan celebrate a win over North Melbourne. Picture: AFL Media


THE FITZROY LEGACY

Coaches
Paul Roos (Melbourne)
Ross Lyon (Fremantle)
Ken Hinkley (Port Adelaide)
John Barker (Carlton – senior assistant)
John Blakey (Sydney Swans – senior assistant)
Alan McConnell (GWS – senior assistant)

Chief executives
Gary Pert (Collingwood)
Carl Dilena (North Melbourne)
Keith Thomas (Port Adelaide)
Michael Nettlefold (former St Kilda chief executive)

Senior recruiters
Scott Clayton (Gold Coast)
Matt Rendell (Collingwood)
David Noble (Adelaide list manager)

Game development
Leon Harris (talent manager, Vic Country)
Matthew Armstrong (AFL Footy Development School)
Robert Shaw (dual premiership coach, Brighton Grammar School)

Media
Alastair Lynch (Fox Footy)

Others
Laurie Serafini (leading football industry recruiter)
Mick Conlan (former general manager, AFL Queensland & senior manager at Nike)
Jamie Cooper (footy artist)
Brett Stephens (tennis/athletic trainer)
 

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yaco55

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I see nothing manifestly wrong with the 'Demise of Fitzroy' article - Should have gone to Brisbane in 1987 and the club would still exist today - Unfortunately, Fitzroy's Board couldn't see the forest from the trees and had an unhealthy reliance on White Knights.
 

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I see nothing manifestly wrong with the 'Demise of Fitzroy' article - Should have gone to Brisbane in 1987 and the club would still exist today - Unfortunately, Fitzroy's Board couldn't see the forest from the trees and had an unhealthy reliance on White Knights.
Nothing...?

You mean like "it came as a relief to the supporters"? An utter crock. It wasn't a relief, it was a horribly sad thing that was borne out over many years and still cuts deep with their supporters 20 years later. Some of those are lost to the game completely now.

You mean like "the AFL didn't lift a finger to save the club"- well no they didn't. They lifted a finger many times to assist in their destruction, though.

The article mentioned nothing about all the whiteanting that went on. You might argue that Fitzroy were probably doomed regardless, but they tried many times to innovate and were stymied every time. Experiment with Tasmania- stymied. Experiment with Canberra- stymied. Attempt to engage new sponsors- stymied. Continuing leaking of sensitive information to their Caro of the time, Sheehan- tick. I could go on.

As I see it, the article was an attempt to be sympathetic on the surface but it basically came across as a roundabout apologist tome justifying the AFL's actions.

The game is poorer for Fitzroy's absence. A proud club with a rich history who were, in the end, bullied out of existence with a complete disregard for their supporters.
 

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So I know Bunk Moreland and Stopher were all over the discussion because of their participation in the main board thread, but who else caught the Fitzroy article on the AFL website last week?

Ham-fisted attempted at whitewashing history at its best.

And I ask why. Why is the AFL still so intent on shitting on the Fitzroy supporters 20 years later and in fact, blatantly misrepresenting not only what happened, but the Fitzroy fans' true feelings on the matter?

They really are a horrible bunch. The people may change, but the overarching ethos doesn't.

For those that didn't see it: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-06-25/the-moment-that-began-fitzroys-long-slow-death
The AFL see themselves as the all-wise, all-knowing 'guardians' of the game. By maintaining this nice, clean image, they can involve themselves in any project or cause that suits them and few, if any, will question their motive$. With their crushing grip on the football media, they can basically say what they want. We all learned this the hard way in these last few years.

At the time, I was too young to realise how involved and underhanded the league was in the demise of FFC. I wasn't too young to remember how sad the last few games in 1996 were though. I didn't have any real connection with the club, outside of my uncle being a casual supporter. But those scenes in those games against Richmond and Fremantle were something I'll never forget, sadly.

All this said, it is great that they exist still at some level and can even play at their traditional home now. And despite some having a healthy dose of cynicism towards the motives for wearing the Fitzroy jumper in Melbourne games, it was fantastic to see such a great jumper being worn on the big stage again. It really makes the paddle-pop lion look even more like the joke that it is.
 

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Seb Ross is tracking beautifully and has stepped it up big time - And he took the points against Dangerfield.
And to think people said i was mad to bring up Ross as a possible in trade deals with Carlisle. Not that i have any complaints with what we got, in fact it is a better result.
 

ant555

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I see nothing manifestly wrong with the 'Demise of Fitzroy' article - Should have gone to Brisbane in 1987 and the club would still exist today - Unfortunately, Fitzroy's Board couldn't see the forest from the trees and had an unhealthy reliance on White Knights.
Pretty harsh and really should not comment on things you do not know all the facts.
My late step father was a Fitzroy board member and it is not as simple as that. It was 1986 and the deal was not as straight forward as it looked from the outside, poorly funded and would have been the same as the Swans exit in 1982. There was no decent plan in place for the move and at the time Fitzroy where not in a huge amount of debt, no more than many other VFL clubs.
There where no White Knights, what killed them in the end was low membership base and moving from the Junction Oval to Princess Park where Carlton made sure they mad little money, ditto when they played at Victoria Park from home games there and then the Western Oval. The fact is Fitzroy where only $900k in debt when the AFL forced the merger on them due to people in high places using political connections to pressure Naru for chase their money from a $500k loan the club had with the Naru government. Because they where not a high profile club the then VFL had little interest in helping them or even getting them a half decent deal for home games.
The period that killed the club was 1988 and onward when the debt grew and players left. The fact is the board actually voted for a merger with the Bulldogs and then again with North at the end.
The reality is some teams had to go and the two with the lowest support base ended up going first. It is easy to say they should have gone in 1986 but at that stage they still had a very good side, where in average debt and less than a number of other VFL clubs. The fact that the Bears where bloody terrible shows just how bad the plan to get into Brisbane was.
Essendon had just as much debt in 1986, the difference was we had "white Knights with deeper pockets".

Collingwood, North, Essendon, Richmond, Footscray and Geelong all had higher debt levels than Fitzroy at various stages during the 70,s and 80,s.
 

yaco55

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Nothing...?

You mean like "it came as a relief to the supporters"? An utter crock. It wasn't a relief, it was a horribly sad thing that was borne out over many years and still cuts deep with their supporters 20 years later. Some of those are lost to the game completely now.

You mean like "the AFL didn't lift a finger to save the club"- well no they didn't. They lifted a finger many times to assist in their destruction, though.

The article mentioned nothing about all the whiteanting that went on. You might argue that Fitzroy were probably doomed regardless, but they tried many times to innovate and were stymied every time. Experiment with Tasmania- stymied. Experiment with Canberra- stymied. Attempt to engage new sponsors- stymied. Continuing leaking of sensitive information to their Caro of the time, Sheehan- tick. I could go on.

As I see it, the article was an attempt to be sympathetic on the surface but it basically came across as a roundabout apologist tome justifying the AFL's actions.

The game is poorer for Fitzroy's absence. A proud club with a rich history who were, in the end, bullied out of existence with a complete disregard for their supporters.
Swans moved to Sydney in 1982 and are doing fine - Fitzroy club made a fatal mistake in not moving to Brisbane in 1987 - There are enough players and the like who know this was the correct move - Though you will never get the Board to agree they made a mistake - Fitzroy would still be in the AFL if they moved to Brisbane - They cut their own throats.
 

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yaco, you've not addressed the argument though. They probably should have gone to Brisbane in 1986 (not that it would have guaranteed anything), but that doesn't undo anything in regards to what the AFL did over the next ten years following 1986 to kill them.

So no, I don't think it's fair to say they cut their own throats. They gave the VFL/AFL the knife, and the VFL/AFL cut. And that is disgraceful.
 

yaco55

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Pretty harsh and really should not comment on things you do not know all the facts.
My late step father was a Fitzroy board member and it is not as simple as that. It was 1986 and the deal was not as straight forward as it looked from the outside, poorly funded and would have been the same as the Swans exit in 1982. There was no decent plan in place for the move and at the time Fitzroy where not in a huge amount of debt, no more than many other VFL clubs.
There where no White Knights, what killed them in the end was low membership base and moving from the Junction Oval to Princess Park where Carlton made sure they mad little money, ditto when they played at Victoria Park from home games there and then the Western Oval. The fact is Fitzroy where only $900k in debt when the AFL forced the merger on them due to people in high places using political connections to pressure Naru for chase their money from a $500k loan the club had with the Naru government. Because they where not a high profile club the then VFL had little interest in helping them or even getting them a half decent deal for home games.
The period that killed the club was 1988 and onward when the debt grew and players left. The fact is the board actually voted for a merger with the Bulldogs and then again with North at the end.
The reality is some teams had to go and the two with the lowest support base ended up going first. It is easy to say they should have gone in 1986 but at that stage they still had a very good side, where in average debt and less than a number of other VFL clubs. The fact that the Bears where bloody terrible shows just how bad the plan to get into Brisbane was.
Essendon had just as much debt in 1986, the difference was we had "white Knights with deeper pockets".

Collingwood, North, Essendon, Richmond, Footscray and Geelong all had higher debt levels than Fitzroy at various stages during the 70,s and 80,s.
I am aware of these facts - Fitzroy's debt originated from the mid 1970's and gradually got worse over time - You are 100% correct the debt got worse from 1988. and the lack of facilities, uncertainty, etc,etc,etc lead to a player exodus. Of course there wold have been teething problems if Fitzroy moved to Brisbane in 1987 there would have been teething problems BUT the playing group were committed to the move and the VFL/AFL would have covered debt.

Anyway this is best discussed in the Fitzroy forum.
 

yaco55

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yaco, you've not addressed the argument though. They probably should have gone to Brisbane in 1986 (not that it would have guaranteed anything), but that doesn't undo anything in regards to what the AFL did over the next ten years following 1986 to kill them.

So no, I don't think it's fair to say they cut their own throats. They gave the VFL/AFL the knife, and the VFL/AFL cut. And that is disgraceful.
Read my previous post and we can take it the Fitzroy forum. One of the funniest/saddest incidents was the VFL disallowed Fitzroy from having a Brothel as a sponsor in the late 1980's.
 

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On a Fitzroy related note...

In 1990, when we were doomed to an extra week off because of the qualifying final draw between Collingwood and West Coast, Sheedy apparently organised a practice game against Fitzroy at Windy Hill in the intervening period, with all gate receipts going to Fitzroy to try and help them raise some money. I read that on the Fitzroy forum.

The practice game didn't help us overcome the effects of the break, sadly, but that's a very nice touch from Sheeds nonetheless.

Does anyone here remember this?
 

Doss

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I am aware of these facts - Fitzroy's debt originated from the mid 1970's and gradually got worse over time - You are 100% correct the debt got worse from 1988. and the lack of facilities, uncertainty, etc,etc,etc lead to a player exodus. Of course there wold have been teething problems if Fitzroy moved to Brisbane in 1987 there would have been teething problems BUT the playing group were committed to the move and the VFL/AFL would have covered debt.

Anyway this is best discussed in the Fitzroy forum.
It's a non-Essendon thread. I would think discussing Fitzroy at least in some capacity is perfectly valid here, especially so when it was subject of a recent article on the AFL website.
 
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