Oppo Camp Non-Essendon Thread X

[BrunoV]

Police had plenty of proof.. far more than ASADA will ever have against us.. but corruption saw it buried until said player finished his career.

Everyone who was involved in the case knew he was guilty.. his team mates knew he was guilty and most of the AFL knew he was guilty..

But I'm happy to leave it at that.

That's fine rines but don't complain about a lack of due process again either.

 

[rines]

That's fine rines but don't complain about a lack of due process again either.

In this case it WAS the lack of due process that I AM complaining about. The Police NEVER followed protocol, they officers involved buried it and have since been sanctioned over their actions.

SO essentially it was the VICTIM that again did not have due process followed.

So I will complain about a lack of due process where-ever I see it.

 

[BrunoV]

In this case it WAS the lack of due process that I AM complaining about. The Police NEVER followed protocol, they officers involved buried it and have since been sanctioned over their actions.

SO essentially it was the VICTIM that again did not have due process followed.

So I will complain about a lack of due process where-ever I see it.

No you're PICKING and CHOOSING when it is convenient to hide behind due process based on causes that suit you.

What you should understand is that the cause is irrelevant.

The COMPLAINANT is no more entitled to a fair hearing of her case than MILNE is. Just as ESSENDON is no more entitled to a fair and independent investigation than ASADA is entitled to do everything within the WADA code to stamp out the use of illegal PEDs in sport in whatever time frame it needs to satisfy itself one way or the other.

If you've got some proof that Milne was part of the cover up by the police then it may well be evidence of his guilt or it could simply just be that he was scared and acted foolishly (though it would all but destroy his credibility and probably make him guilty anyway). But you don't know anything which is why you can't call him a rapist.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

It's both, where is the due process for the accused? Horrible thing to live with if innocent.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

If you've got some proof that Milne was part of the cover up by the police then it may well be evidence of his guilt or it could simply just be that he was scared and acted foolishly (though it would all but destroy his credibility and probably make him guilty anyway). But you don't know anything which is why you can't call him a rapist.

Exactly, though what power would Milne have at time, he'd barely been at club for two years? The cover up would have come from either the AFL or St.Kilda power players and I'd imagine they'd do it regardless of guilt.

 

[Phone]

please dont even bother trying to compare criminal offences v doping offences in sport

 

[rines]

No you're PICKING and CHOOSING when it is convenient to hide behind due process based on causes that suit you.

What you should understand is that the cause is irrelevant.

The COMPLAINANT is no more entitled to a fair hearing of her case than MILNE is. Just as ESSENDON is no more entitled to a fair and independent investigation than ASADA is entitled to do everything within the WADA code to stamp out the use of illegal PEDs in sport in whatever time frame it needs to satisfy itself one way or the other.

If you've got some proof that Milne was part of the cover up by the police then it may well be evidence of his guilt or it could simply just be that he was scared and acted foolishly (though it would all but destroy his credibility and probably make him guilty anyway). But you don't know anything which is why you can't call him a rapist.

I feel sorry for you. Probably the reason why there is a woman r*ped every 8 minutes in this country, 1 in 4 will suffer sexual assault and less than 15% will report it.

Until we change attitudes like yours, this country and planet will never be safe for women.

 

[VelvetSledge]

Comparing the charges against Milne with the charges laid upon our football club have no place on this thread, this board, or this forum.

It is a highly emotional topic for all involved, and even mentioning the accused act against Milne with the supposed treachery of individuals within our football club is purely inflammatory.

It is no place to assume people's attitudes towards this act, and no place to put words in others mouths. We each have our own opinion on the topic, but this is neither here nor there.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

I feel sorry for you. Probably the reason why there is a woman r*ped every 8 minutes in this country, 1 in 4 will suffer sexual assault and less than 15% will report it.

Until we change attitudes like yours, this country and planet will never be safe for women.

What a campaignerish thing to say.

 

[eth-dog]

Hey rines, ever heard of "innocent until proven guilty"?

 

[BrunoV]

please dont even bother trying to compare criminal offences v doping offences in sport

No one is meant to be comparing the seriousness of the offences.

There is absolutely no issue with drawing a comparison between between procedural entitlements to the parties involved in both especially where everyone agrees that they are supposed to be the same.

 

[Doss]

A lot of Essendon supporters have felt that, say, James Hird was given a suspension without being given access to completely due and fair process.

Now, I'm not informed or in the know enough to be able to judge with any certainty whether there was interference or corruption at play in the Milne case. Clearly some are of the opinion that there was, and maybe they are right. Maybe they are not.

I think the point being made was, if you're going to contend that Hird was suspended without being given his right to a proper defence, then you can't really criticise the AFL for continuing to allow Milne to play given what they had to work with. Whether corruption or interference played a part or not, in the eyes of the law Milne hadn't been convicted. Rightly or wrongly.

It's not fair to say that pointing that out is symptomatic of why rape is still such a serious issue, though. The reason it is still such a serious issue is partly because some men still don't respect the rights of a woman to say "NO", and partly because in any population set, unfortunately, there are always bound to be a sub-set of scumbags who have no compunction about such perpetrating such despicable behaviour. There are almost certainly ongoing issues with the justice system that affect rates of reporting, too.

The stereotypes that popular culture still so commonly perpetuate and ingrain in people play a role, too.

It is such a vexed and terribly sad issue- for the victims, for their families, and, in some cases, for people who are falsely accused of it. I myself have a close relative who was r*ped. It affects her to this day.

 

[BrunoV]

I feel sorry for you. Probably the reason why there is a woman r*ped every 8 minutes in this country, 1 in 4 will suffer sexual assault and less than 15% will report it.

Until we change attitudes like yours, this country and planet will never be safe for women.

There is nothing more counterproductive to the cause of true equality for women than this sort of lazy feminist shit.

I knew you'd get sucked in and I almost feel guilty for doing it but now I can't be bothered with the tee-off.

The attitude towards women that results in those sorts of numbers of sexual assaults and rapes is an ingrained cultural problem. Abandoning procedural cornerstones such as a presumption of innocence is not going to change the attitudes of men who objectify, do not respect or even detest women.

Putting aside the garbage justified by religious and ethnic groups, if you want to start somewhere look at the way popular culture still does everything it can to undermine the credibility of women by unnecessarily sexualising so much of what they do (which is not something men are subjected to) and the mass of contradictions inherent in this sexualisation when the audience is almost wholly young girls and/or the way it helps to ingrain old fashioned gender roles.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

please dont even bother trying to compare criminal offences v doping offences in sport

You're right Phone. As the resident experts on this site will tell you, the latter is far more serious.

 

[lamaros]

Can we talk footy again?

I think Adelaide are a chance.

 

[JDavey]

Can we talk footy again?

I think Adelaide are a chance.

A chance? Yes, likely? No. Collingwood is very good and their depth is amazing. Can't see Tex having a big game first back either.

 

[Doss]

Not that the past should mean a lot, but Adelaide have an uncommonly terrible record against Collingwood.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

There is a real chance that this is Jack Frost's last game for the season. Tex will monster him.

The non selection of Nathan Brown is just ridiculous.

 

[George Washington]

You're right Phone. As the resident experts on this site will tell you, the latter is far more serious.

I'd give my kids meth before I gave them AOD.

 

[Phone]

You're right Phone. As the resident experts on this site will tell you, the latter is far more serious.

one actually affects people and one is just some court bullshit or whatever

 

[yaco55]

Trying to work out how the Toby Greene and Marley Williams cases were compared with Stephen Milne. The fact is that when Milne was charged by the police he was suspended by the AFL for 3 or 4 weeks.

 

[Zach Package]

There is a real chance that this is Jack Frost's last game for the season. Tex will monster him.

The non selection of Nathan Brown is just ridiculous.

I watched Nathan Brown up very close for a half the day after anzac day, lets just say it doesn't at all surprise me he's not in the side.
I'm not sure whether there was something wrong with him physically at the time, but he just looked soooo slow and reactive, belch really could have kicked 4 on him in the last quarter alone had he had stickier hands on the day

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Frost is actually an excellent body to body defender, his skills are atrocious though.

 

[yaco55]

Frost is actually an excellent body to body defender, his skills are atrocious though.

Good post. It seems that emerging defenders are labelled as scraggers. Fletch has done lots of scragging in his time.

 

[Ben the Gooner]

I watched Nathan Brown up very close for a half the day after anzac day, lets just say it doesn't at all surprise me he's not in the side.
I'm not sure whether there was something wrong with him physically at the time, but he just looked soooo slow and reactive, belch really could have kicked 4 on him in the last quarter alone had he had stickier hands on the day

Yeah, but Jack Frost........