Non Lions Discussion 2024

[briztoon]

You already went at him about this yesterday friend.

Yes, and I let him have the last say in the conversation yesterday, to wait for this game.

It is still a bad take.

 

[briztoon]

I was clearly talking long term and as you said most are injured. I wasn’t saying West Coast would perform better than Hawthorn this weekend. Although both have been pathetic

Still maintain West Coast have more pieces of a premiership puzzle than the hawks

But nah one weekends performance and Gaff playing 2s is the perfect representation of a list

They don't.

And the majority of West Coast supporters are well aware of this, as it's a regular discussion on their board, where I've been rather active for the last 3 years.

 

[Nathan Barley]

They don't.

And the majority of West Coast supporters are well aware of this, as it's a regular discussion on their board, where I've been rather active for the last 3 years.

Briztoon you are ******* amazing mate

 

[briztoon]

Briztoon you are ******* amazing mate

Yeah, go the man and not topic.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Yeah, go the man and not topic.

Your post did not warrant it

What do you think visitors of our board would take away from recent conversations?

Half of which has been about how we need a Harley Reid type and you know which team out of Hawthorn and West Coast have one?

I spend time on the west coast forum is not scoring you any points

 

[Elixuh]

I’m also mentally broken from a grand final loss by less than a goal to Collingwood followed by a 0-2 start and an ACL to kiddy but let’s not start pretending Port Adelaide are the kings of not choking in pressure situations.

Give it two more weeks of bad results and people will be saying Leppa was a better coach than Fagan.

Brab you just blindly defend the club. You realise the players are going to McDonald’s after games still in their game day kit ffs, eating big Mac’s and soft serves in the car park. And yet here you are defending the club.

 

[BRAB]

Brab you just blindly defend the club. You realise the players are going to McDonald’s after games still in their game day kit ffs, eating big Mac’s and soft serves in the car park. And yet here you are defending the club.

The boys did stop running against Carlton once we secured a free Big Mac upon passing 75 points. Very suspicious

 

[Nunez]

Yeah, go the man and not topic.

Far be it from me to defend Jackess - he and I have certainly clashed many times.

That said, you're in the wrong with this one mate. He's entitled to his opinion. You don't have to agree, but replying "bad take" multiple times is the Big Footy equivalent of "cool story bro".

 

[lionshine]

GWS have so many quality players. Incredibly talented list.

 

[BRAB]

Far be it from me to defend Jackess - he and I have certainly clashed many times.

That said, you're in the wrong with this one mate. He's entitled to his opinion. You don't have to agree, but replying "bad take" multiple times is the Big Footy equivalent of "cool story bro".

Bad take

 

[briztoon]

Your post did not warrant it

What do you think visitors of our board would take away from recent conversations?

Half of which has been about how we need a Harley Reid type and you know which team out of Hawthorn and West Coast have one?

I spend time on the west coast forum is not scoring you any points

Most conversation on our board has been about the lack of a big bodied mid, not the lack of a dynamic hybrid mid.

I've been active in the West Coast contract, trade and draft thread for three years. I've seen and been involved in all the discussions about where their list sits.

Apart from Oscar Allen, they have no one on their list from the 2016 draft to the 2020 draft that anyone could call a genuinely good player (who can stay fit), and just a couple of role players (Liam Duggan, Jake Waterman and Jamaine Jones).

They totally lack best 22 players in the 22 year old to the 28 year old age groups, apart from Allen. Ones who can stay on the fiield now anyway, as Liam Ryan has continual hamstring problems now. Most of their older players are just about cooked, in the same way Lyons and Rich are/were for us (Darling and Gaff certainly are, and McGovern is close).

Quite a few of their recent draftees have missed considerable time due to recurring injuries, and haven't shown much, apart from Ginbey and Reid (who's in his second game).


Hawthorn have many more players in that mid age group, to get them through their rebuild. I'm not saying Hawthorn has anyone as good as Reid, but they have way, way more kids playing regular AFL football at this stage, as they committed to their rebuild before West Coast did, have had the benefit of a couple of father sons, and trading out senior players to generate extra draft picks.


West Coast have almost no one worth trading to generate extra higher end picks, nor any free agents willing to leave that will generate extra draft picks. Not any they're willing to lose anyway.

Last year WC had pick 1, then pick 30. They've already traded away their third round pick this year, so are down to two decent picks this year.

As they lose their older players to retirement, they are replacing them with first year draftees, and it's literally a one out, one in scenario. And it's the very, very rare draftee that's ready from day one for AFL footy.

They're going to have to seriously overpay to bring in any free agents, if any want to come to them, and they're not being linked to any that will significantly move the needle. No I don't believe Tim English is going to improve them much, if at all, if he leaves for WC this trade period.

2022 WC is equivalent to 2016 North. Different reasons why both lists were/are very, very shallow on genuine talent, bu 8 years on and North are still a bottom 3 club, because their only mechanism to rebuild has been through the draft.

At least when we bottomed out in 2016 and 2017, we had mid aged Dayne Beams, Dayne Zorko, Tom Rockliff, Dan Rich and Mitch Robinson in and around our midfield to protect the kids (and in some cases, become trade assets). West Coast have 30 year olds Elliot Yeo, Tim Kelly and 28 year old Liam Duggan and no one else.

Unless they start attracting quality free agents, it's going to be a slow rebuild using just their natural picks.

In terms of recently drafted KPP stocks of any note, they have Rhett Bazzo (KPD) and Harry Barnett (Ruck) from the 2021 draft, and Archer Reid (KPF) from the 2023 draft.

And they have very few small forwards/defenders/flankers of note from recent drafts. And the possible best of them, Coby Burgiel can't get on the park due to continual hamstring problems.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Most conversation on our board has been about the lack of a big bodied mid, not the lack of a dynamic hybrid mid.

I've been active in the West Coast contract, trade and draft thread for three years. I've seen and been involved in all the discussions about where their list sits.

Apart from Oscar Allen, they have no one on their list from the 2016 draft to the 2020 draft that anyone could call a genuinely good player (who can stay fit), and just a couple of role players (Liam Duggan, Jake Waterman and Jamaine Jones).

They totally lack best 22 players in the 22 year old to the 28 year old age groups, apart from Allen. Ones who can stay on the fiield now anyway, as Liam Ryan has continual hamstring problems now. Most of their older players are just about cooked, in the same way Lyons and Rich are/were for us (Darling and Gaff certainly are, and McGovern is close).

Quite a few of their recent draftees have missed considerable time due to recurring injuries, and haven't shown much, apart from Ginbey and Reid (who's in his second game).


Hawthorn have many more players in that mid age group, to get them through their rebuild. I'm not saying Hawthorn has anyone as good as Reid, but they have way, way more kids playing regular AFL football at this stage, as they committed to their rebuild before West Coast did, have had the benefit of a couple of father sons, and trading out senior players to generate extra draft picks.


West Coast have almost no one worth trading to generate extra higher end picks, nor any free agents willing to leave that will generate extra draft picks. Not any they're willing to lose anyway.

Last year WC had pick 1, then pick 30. They've already traded away their third round pick this year, so are down to two decent picks this year.

As they lose their older players to retirement, they are replacing them with first year draftees, and it's literally a one out, one in scenario. And it's the very, very rare draftee that's ready from day one for AFL footy.

They're going to have to seriously overpay to bring in any free agents, if any want to come to them, and they're not being linked to any that will significantly move the needle. No I don't believe Tim English is going to improve them much, if at all, if he leaves for WC this trade period.

2022 WC is equivalent to 2016 North. Different reasons why both lists were/are very, very shallow on genuine talent, bu 8 years on and North are still a bottom 3 club, because their only mechanism to rebuild has been through the draft.

At least when we bottomed out in 2016 and 2017, we had mid aged Dayne Beams, Dayne Zorko, Tom Rockliff, Dan Rich and Mitch Robinson in and around our midfield to protect the kids (and in some cases, become trade assets). West Coast have 30 year olds Elliot Yeo, Tim Kelly and 28 year old Liam Duggan and no one else.

Unless they start attracting quality free agents, it's going to be a slow rebuild using just their natural picks.

In terms of recently drafted KPP stocks of any note, they have Rhett Bazzo (KPD) and Harry Barnett (Ruck) from the 2021 draft, and Archer Reid (KPF) from the 2023 draft.

And they have very few small forwards/defenders/flankers of note from recent drafts. And the possible best of them, Coby Burgiel can't get on the park due to continual hamstring problems.

I actually think the Hawks/North comparison is much closer. Wasting too many high picks on vanilla footballers

I think a closer look at Hawthorns list might be worthwhile

Sure they might have invested games in kids but there’s little top end talent which you’re unlikely to add while you head up the ladder. Players like Worpel and Newcombe are nice to have but not the hardest players to find and develop.

And if you want to talk about talent the 2 with the most talent, Jiath and Day can’t get on the park either.

I don’t think they’ve struck the right balance with who they’ve taken with early picks either while I think the West coast mids they’ve drafted recently complement each other nicely

 

[irel]

The Eagles will be given a helping hand which may include a top end priority pick or two in the manner of Norf's package.

Unfortunately we had to do it with minimal assistance from the AFL.

 

[briztoon]

The Eagles will be given a helping hand which may include a top end priority pick or two in the manner of Norf's package.

Unfortunately we had to do it with minimal assistance from the AFL.

Top end? Or multiple end of first round picks?

 

[McIvor]

Tell you what; having a look at the ladder and draw, a lot of the top 8 have had pretty soft draws that also continues next week. GWS (games against North and WCE), Port (WCE and Tigers), Melbourne (Hawthorne) Swans (games against Tigers and WCE coming up). I also saw that Melbourne have got Hawks and Eagles twice again this year.

Momentum is huge in footy and can’t help but think what a couple of easy games early in the season can do for belief of a team getting the wins compared to teams that have genuinely hard starts and ultimately battle a year because they are on the back foot.

 

[dlanod]

Looks to me that the “stand” rule isn’t being enforced so strictly this season.

Noticed that too. There's been leeway of a foot or so, or shifting yourself around, etc.

 

[BuntonRules]

Looks to me that the “stand” rule isn’t being enforced so strictly this season.

Should interptet it like netball does. You are allowed to step with one foot, but if the other leaves the ground it is travel.

 

[Crimso]

Noticed that too. There's been leeway of a foot or so, or shifting yourself around, etc.

And there looks to have been a few running in late from the side also.

 

[McIvor]

Where is the game going with it obvious that Wright will get suspended for contesting a mark like that Carlton guy Plownan years ago? So is the expectation that Wright just lets that Swan mark the ball uncontested? We may as well go contactless if this is a suspension act.

 

[Dalions]

Where is the game going with it obvious that Wright will get suspended for contesting a mark like that Carlton guy Plownan years ago? So is the expectation that Wright just lets that Swan mark the ball uncontested? We may as well go contactless if this is a suspension act.

Took his eyes off the ball and braced instead of contesting the mark imo

 

[BuntonRules]

Took his eyes off the ball and braced instead of contesting the mark imo

Watch On the Couch. Wright has done it before. Poor technique. Dangerous.

 

[BangyBangy]

Where is the game going with it obvious that Wright will get suspended for contesting a mark like that Carlton guy Plownan years ago? So is the expectation that Wright just lets that Swan mark the ball uncontested? We may as well go contactless if this is a suspension act.

He wasn't contesting a mark. He was certainly making body contact with the player that did, but he did it poorly, left the ground, had no eyes on the ball & cleaned him up (knowing where he was without making eye contact towards him).

I actually think he was lucky this was graded careless rather than intentional.

It was very intentional (IMO).

 

[McIvor]

Got to laugh at the hypocrisy of the AFL. Gives Wright four weeks citing community standards dictates such a suspension yet that thug Maynard gets off in last years finals series ending the career of a player and there is nothing to see.

The AFL were always waiting for an easy target club to make their statement.

Seriously pathetic hypocrisy by the AFL.

 

[Elixuh]

Got to laugh at the hypocrisy of the AFL. Gives Wright four weeks citing community standards dictates such a suspension yet that thug Maynard gets off in last years finals series ending the career of a player and there is nothing to see.

The AFL were always waiting for an easy target club to make their statement.

Seriously pathetic hypocrisy by the AFL.

The AFL has to their credit been consistent this season so far.

 

[martinson]

Maynard should've been rubbed out off last years rules.

What would he get this year ? 6 ?