Non Lions Discussion 2024

[lionshine]

Really hate this from Brad Scott

The AFL just announced all players & umpires will form a circle before each match this round and have a 1 minute silence for violence against women. Good timing from the Bombers

 

[Tom14]

Down by a point with 6 minutes to go, Essendon have 2 set shots in the space of a minute on 50, and both times lob it up to the top of the square. Suicide. 95% of the game it's the right option but down by a point with 6 minutes to go, put it right to the goal line and try to force a behind at least.

Game management. Game management. Game management.

Couldn’t agree more. Force through a point, and you have a chance at getting a turnover or good field position off the kick in. Players woefully misunderstand this.

 

[Tom14]

The AFL just announced all players & umpires will form a circle before each match this round and have a 1 minute silence for violence against women. Good timing from the Bombers

I’m not opposed to gestures and maybe I’m too much of a cynic but I think this is pretty pathetic from the AFL.

I’d like to see an actual substantive change to policy for when a player facing serious charges - no fault stand down.

Perhaps it is for the best that J***dy DG is injured this week too.

 

[M Malice]

I’m not opposed to gestures and maybe I’m too much of a cynic but I think this is pretty pathetic from the AFL.

I’d like to see an actual substantive change to policy for when a player facing serious charges - no fault stand down.

Perhaps it is for the best that J***dy DG is injured this week too.

I may be Naive but I assume men know that bashing and murdering women is abhorrent, players/coaches/umpires standing in a circle joining hands is not going to stop a lunatic from committing murder or assault.

Smacks of vacuous virtue signalling to my aged mind.

 

[Elixuh]

I’m not opposed to gestures and maybe I’m too much of a cynic but I think this is pretty pathetic from the AFL.

I’d like to see an actual substantive change to policy for when a player facing serious charges - no fault stand down.

Perhaps it is for the best that J***dy DG is injured this week too.

If the proposal is that they stand in a circle for a minutes silence then the AFL is doing the absolute bare minimum and I genuinely don’t think it makes one iota difference.

They should have something pre-prepared that can run for 5 minutes talking about the issue - there are thousands of advocates they could team up with to produce this with the clubs.

I don’t think you’re saying this but I don’t blame some people on this one that say this is just virtue signalling the from the AFL. Actually do something substantive AFL if you want to position yourself as one of the organisations leading the pack on this. But I suppose doing something serious would mean acknowledging the impact gambling has on DV.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

I may be Naive but I assume men know that bashing and murdering women is abhorrent, players/coaches/umpires standing in a circle joining hands is not going to stop a lunatic from committing murder or assault.

Smacks of vacuous virtue signalling to my aged mind.

It really is a cop out considering the seriousness of these issues. Let's hear some ideas to help, and then some real action, rather than these meaningless theatrical performances.

 

[Grasshopper17]

But I suppose doing something serious would mean acknowledging the impact gambling has on DV.

I legit had not put 2 and 2 together on this. I mean it makes sense to an extent... Interesting... Food for thought.

 

[KissKiss]

I may be Naive but I assume men know that bashing and murdering women is abhorrent,

Sadly it seems that there are still a bunch of men out there that dont think the bashing part is wrong. Still way too many people see their partners as property that they can slap around.

The AFL standing around in a circle wont do much, but more visibility and discussion might drive some other changes. Something more does need to be done especially around attitudes from young men

 

[M Malice]

Sadly it seems that there are still a bunch of men out there that dont think the bashing part is wrong. Still way too many people see their partners as property that they can slap around.

The AFL standing around in a circle wont do much, but more visibility and discussion might drive some other changes. Something more does need to be done especially around attitudes from young men

I'd like to see the correlation of the perpetrators of these heinous acts with existing involvement with government via the criminal justice system, mental health and drug addiction services, that is probably a major failure right there.

 

[rye]

Sadly it seems that there are still a bunch of men out there that dont think the bashing part is wrong. Still way too many people see their partners as property that they can slap around.

The AFL standing around in a circle wont do much, but more visibility and discussion might drive some other changes. Something more does need to be done especially around attitudes from young men

i worked in a family / criminal law firm for a bit. a lot of domestic abusers are incapable of acknowledging what they have done is wrong. it is distinct from a lot of crime pushed by economic reasons and even other violent crime which is predominantly between men in that there is never really an extraneous factor you can point to which drives the conduct. saw many men who had been physical with their partner say things to the effect of 'id never hurt her....'. although drugs, alcohol, gambling etc may contribute to the issue i think once the behaviour is learned its extremely difficult to correct.

im a big advocate in rehabilitation rather than punishment for the majority of offenders, but domestic abusers have some of the lowest prospects for rehabilitation imo.... thomas's conduct throughout his whole saga shows he just doesnt care. never again for him as far as im concerned.

 

[Elixuh]

i worked in a family / criminal law firm for a bit. a lot of domestic abusers are incapable of acknowledging what they have done is wrong. it is distinct from a lot of crime pushed by economic reasons and even other violent crime which is predominantly between men in that there is never really an extraneous factor you can point to which drives the conduct. saw many men who had been physical with their partner say things to the effect of 'id never hurt her....'. although drugs, alcohol, gambling etc may contribute to the issue i think once the behaviour is learned its extremely difficult to correct.

im a big advocate in rehabilitation rather than punishment for the majority of offenders, but domestic abusers have some of the lowest prospects for rehabilitation imo.... thomas's conduct throughout his whole saga shows he just doesnt care. never again for him as far as im concerned.

I’m all for people being afforded a second chance and the ability to make amends for the things they’ve done.

However, TT is in a position that probably 0.1% of society is in. All the support and resources he could need were provided by North and he was given multiple chances. Playing AFL is a privilege that TT has forfeited.

 

[Viceregal]

Having a minutes silence re violence against women ... apart from what has already been mentioned ... takes the focus away from the perpertrators of the violence (whether phsycial, psychological, emotionalm, material etc etc) and onto a specific subset of the victims (men and children are just as much victims of domestic violence (albeit the men are more likely on the receiving end of psychological, emotional, material and deprivation type abuses) but are being left out here).

If you begin with the premise that all violence/enforcement of will/maniputlation to resolve an issue is wrong then you need to have it as a moral wrong for all not when used by the men.

If you decide that violence/enforcement of will/manipulation is the standard endgame for an otherwise unresolved/unresolvable conflict in a relationship then you need to be working on everyone having buy-in on the compromise front and our society is a lot better at teaching us to 'stand up for our rights' than it is teaching us to embrace the us and the temporary pains for a better future for both.

Anyway why are we having this conversation in the non lions discussion thread???

 

[Grasshopper17]

Anyway why are we having this conversation in the non lions discussion thread???

Did I mention I'm really looking forward to the showdown tonight?

 

[notliondown]

I think it's right that the AFL continue to highlight and bring social issues to the forefront of peoples minds. Sport has a huge role in bringing people together and it can be a super force for good in being the ice breaker that gets families and friends talking about issues they may never otherwise.

I can imagine kids at the footy asking parents why the players are doing what they are doing and that just might be the start of change.

But this guy nails it. Like all issues at the moment, politicians seem so reluctant to decide on anything or actually make a decision so they continually want commissions or committees so blame can be shared and apportioned.

This is the perfect response

Former NSW Police officer tells politicians to lock up DV threats

Criminologist and former NSW Police detective Vincent Hurley, who went viral lecturing politicians on Q+A, says there are immediate solutions to keep women and children safe.

www.abc.net.au

 

[M Malice]

Showdown's always seem to produce great contests.

Taylor Walker

13

Taylor Walker

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.0

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

5.7

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

1.6

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

1.6

5star

really has had a fantastic career, 266 games, 622 goals(2.3 per game), which is a minutely better goals per game average than Tom Hawkins

26

Tom Hawkins

Age

35

Ht

197cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.2

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.4

3star

M

5.5

5star

T

1.9

4star

G

2.1

5star

D

12.7

3star

K

8.6

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

5.1

5star

T

2.1

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

7.8

2star

K

5.6

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

4.2

4star

T

1.0

3star

G

2.2

5star

, Tex is a little underrated.

 

[martinson]

Showdown's always seem to produce great contests.

Taylor Walker really has had a fantastic career, 266 games, 622 goals(2.3 per game), which is a minutely better goals per game average than Tom Hawkins, Tex is a little underrated.

He's still very good.

 

[M Malice]

He's still very good.

IIRC there were some reports a few years ago that we were going after him, dare to say with him in the side we win the Grand Final last season and maybe another one before. Although someone of significance probably wouldn't have come to us... Joe?

 

[martinson]

i worked in a family / criminal law firm for a bit. a lot of domestic abusers are incapable of acknowledging what they have done is wrong. it is distinct from a lot of crime pushed by economic reasons and even other violent crime which is predominantly between men in that there is never really an extraneous factor you can point to which drives the conduct. saw many men who had been physical with their partner say things to the effect of 'id never hurt her....'. although drugs, alcohol, gambling etc may contribute to the issue i think once the behaviour is learned its extremely difficult to correct.

im a big advocate in rehabilitation rather than punishment for the majority of offenders, but domestic abusers have some of the lowest prospects for rehabilitation imo.... thomas's conduct throughout his whole saga shows he just doesnt care. never again for him as far as im concerned.

In another life I saw enough to know that some people are just not capable of being rehabilitated. Without in any way knowing the facts or context of the current person under discussion.

 

[Dalions]

IIRC there were some reports a few years ago that we were going after him, dare to say with him in the side we win the Grand Final last season and maybe another one before. Although someone of significance probably wouldn't have come to us... Joe?

I will take a non Premiership over Tex Walker.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Remarkable first quarter. Early on Adelaide were beating Port exactly the same way they beat us in our first meeting last year: hard slingshot out of defence.

Port eventually got things right late in the quarter by lowering the eyes and hitting up shallower targets inside 50.

But 9 shots to 6, 20 entries to 9, but even expected score only has them 3 points ahead.



It all just seems a bit labour intensive to me, and the more footy I see over the last 12 months, the more convinced I become that being dominant in a territory sense is not conducive to hitting the scoreboard. It means you've either got to be able to come out the front of stoppages, quickly, or you need to adopt a more patient build up, and be willing to change angles like Boak did to Burgoyne in the middle of the quarter. And even if you do that well, it's highly likely your shot will be from either long range or a tight angle.

It would be wrong to say it's a fraudulent method but I do think it is highly inefficient.

Certainly it seems the best way to generate high quality shots at goal is from being able to force turnovers in your back half and move the ball quickly.

 

[M Malice]

Remarkable first quarter. Early on Adelaide were beating Port exactly the same way they beat us in our first meeting last year: hard slingshot out of defence.

Port eventually got things right late in the quarter by lowering the eyes and hitting up shallower targets inside 50.

But 9 shots to 6, 20 entries to 9, but even expected score only has them 3 points ahead.



It all just seems a bit labour intensive to me, and the more footy I see over the last 12 months, the more convinced I become that being dominant in a territory sense is not conducive to hitting the scoreboard. It means you've either got to be able to come out the front of stoppages, quickly, or you need to adopt a more patient build up, and be willing to change angles like Boak did to Burgoyne in the middle of the quarter. And even if you do that well, it's highly likely your shot will be from either long range or a tight angle.

It would be wrong to say it's a fraudulent method but I do think it is highly inefficient.

Certainly it seems the best way to generate high quality shots at goal is from being able to force turnovers in your back half and move the ball quickly.

I am not a huge stats fan but aren't scores from turnovers by far the highest percentage scoring method?

Makes sense as you catch your opposition in offensive mode with a not optimally set up defensive structure.

 

[martinson]

Remarkable first quarter. Early on Adelaide were beating Port exactly the same way they beat us in our first meeting last year: hard slingshot out of defence.

Port eventually got things right late in the quarter by lowering the eyes and hitting up shallower targets inside 50.

But 9 shots to 6, 20 entries to 9, but even expected score only has them 3 points ahead.



It all just seems a bit labour intensive to me, and the more footy I see over the last 12 months, the more convinced I become that being dominant in a territory sense is not conducive to hitting the scoreboard. It means you've either got to be able to come out the front of stoppages, quickly, or you need to adopt a more patient build up, and be willing to change angles like Boak did to Burgoyne in the middle of the quarter. And even if you do that well, it's highly likely your shot will be from either long range or a tight angle.

It would be wrong to say it's a fraudulent method but I do think it is highly inefficient.

Certainly it seems the best way to generate high quality shots at goal is from being able to force turnovers in your back half and move the ball quickly.

Geelong seems to be dining out on this . It's the gamestyle that's winning games this year. Even last year.

The other things that get underrated are that if you don't use a lot of juice in putting a score on the board you obviously have more energy late in the game. Likewise wearing down your opponent by clogging up their constant forward forays and burning them on the rebound is mentally demoralising for them.

I've seen this with us this year when we've dominated for significant periods of the game and without enough scoreboard pressure and the cupboard has been bare once momentum turns.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I am not a huge stats fan but aren't scores from turnovers by far the highest percentage scoring method?

Makes sense as you catch your opposition in offensive mode with a not optimally set up defensive structure.

Correct, however the main reason scores from turnover are generally higher than scores from stoppage is that there are so many more turnovers than stoppages in most games.

For example in tonight's game there have so far been 26 clearances but 61 turnovers.

 

[martinson]

Good to see the Crows using up all their accuracy this week and not against us.

 

[M Malice]

Correct, however the main reason scores from turnover are generally higher than scores from stoppage is that there are so many more turnovers than stoppages in most games.

For example in tonight's game there have so far been 26 clearances but 61 turnovers.

So it makes sense to have a very good turnover game as you get far more opportunities to score via that method.

We have been good with our turnover game over the last few years haven't we?