2nds Northern Blues 2016

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ctacp said:
Hope everyone didnt disappoint the first few times in the bedroom & end up never getting another go is all i'll say. Liam Jones is a carlton listed player & should be supported until he isnt. isnt his fault he was given a big contract. if poor coaching previously has not helped him improve & now with a better style & teacher he has worked his way into being a chance for selection good on him.
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Strange comparison to make, as Liam is a professional. In your example he would be a pr0n star (a pretty bad one too) not some kid having sex for the first time. He made it to this level having played the game many times and is being paid a healthy contract for it.

Don't get me wrong, if the MC decide he is good enough for a call up, I will support him the same as I would the other boys. 'Supporters' who malign certain players and bag them ad naseum are the worst. I simply am putting my opinion forward in a discussion about our reserves players form and whether or not they are close to a recall. I'm of the opinion that Liam Jones has nothing more to offer Carlton football club, I may be wrong.
 
TheKITC said:
I get that and fair play with the DA question too, personally I just don't think he has a future with the club and at the moment, we need to be all about the future. For those players that won't be around when the reset is up and firing, they bring leadership, they bring protection. I don't think Liam brings anything to the table, despite what Josh Fraser has to say to the contrary (he could be right, we'll see). I would just prefer to play KJ or even Weitering or Plowman up there with Casboult. If Jones is to play, it would have to be at the expense of Levi IMO.

Not taking anything away from Jones' performance, but as I've said it really doesn't fill me with any confidence at all. I've watched him play great VFL games before, it's never really been an issue for him.
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Taking everything you've said into consideration - why does Casboult hold his spot ahead of Jones?

It's not a matter of saying "Jaksch and Weitering and Plowman are all preferable to Jones" - there's no reason we can't play all three of those blokes in addition to Liam. I have an enormous amount of respect for Levi and the responsibility he bears for our team every week, however he's played four games this season and kicked 3 goals, 4 behinds, and at least 5 out on the full that I can think of. That's a conversion rate of 25% at best, and it could be lower.

Jones has kicked 8.2 from two games.

Jones is a year younger than Casboult.

Jones is contracted with Carlton for 2017.

I can't think of a single reason why Casboult can be considered part of our future, but Jones can't.

If his form warrants it, give him his due under a new coach and with a new gameplan. If he spuds it up over the next 3-4 games then we can write him off fairly. His inclusion isn't exactly going to cost us goals...
 

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Blue__Balls said:
Taking everything you've said into consideration - why does Casboult hold his spot ahead of Jones?
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He might not, but that's the only way I see Jones playing seniors for us in terms of balance. Can't have both IMO.

Blue__Balls said:
It's not a matter of saying "Jaksch and Weitering and Plowman are all preferable to Jones" - there's no reason we can't play all three of those blokes in addition to Liam. I have an enormous amount of respect for Levi and the responsibility he bears for our team every week, however he's played four games this season and kicked 3 goals, 4 behinds, and at least 5 out on the full that I can think of. That's a conversion rate of 25% at best, and it could be lower.

Jones has kicked 8.2 from two games.

Jones is a year younger than Casboult.

Jones is contracted with Carlton for 2017.
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They are preferable as forward options because I just don't see Jones as part of our future, where they could be/are. They could play in the same team, as those boys all play down back as well.

Yes, Levi has been ordinary in front of goals and has had a poor start to the season on some levels. Let's not forget Levi has played against Rory Thompson/Steven May, Alex Rance and Marcus Adams as pretty much a lone hand down there. Jones, whilst you still have to get them, has been playing in the VFL.

What I think Levi brings to the team, Jones cannot. Levi has great athletic ability for a huge man, he gets up and down the ground, is in the hunt and a big presence when the ball hits the deck and he makes a contest always, not to mention he's a contested marking beast. He is also a decent relief ruck if the team dictates that he needs to be. He shows aggression, he shows he is prepared to work and he shows passion.

Jones is a better kick but deficient in almost all other areas to Casboult IMO.

What in your opinion does Jones actually bring to the table? We know what he can do at VFL level, what does he provide us in the ones? What has changed between what we've seen on exposed form to now?

Blue__Balls said:
I can't think of a single reason why Casboult can be considered part of our future, but Jones can't.
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And fair enough too, if we all thought the same there would be no need for discussions like this. I can think of a reason though, Jones is not good enough and doesn't do enough to play AFL in my opinion.
 
I must add, FWIW I think Jones will possibly be picked this week or in the near future if his forms holds up in VFL. I just don't think he will provide us with enough when/if he does get a chance. If he proves me wrong and becomes a good player, no one would be happier. I want our team to perform well, let's not forget that in all of this.
 
blue_boyz14 said:
Been following Kerbatieh's progress for a little while.

Terrific talent who is learning about the work ethic needed to become an AFL footballer.

Massive kick (55+), nifty around goal. Not blindingly quick, but has solid evasion and agility.
Needs work on the endurance side of his game to be a more complete player.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him picked up as a rookie (here or elsewhere) if he has a solid year, which would probably be 30-35 goals and showing glimpses of a developing running game.
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I had him picked originally to go late first or early second last draft. I was really surprised when no one picked him up in the either the national or rookie drafts. I am really hoping that he has a great year at the Bullants and Carlton really look at picking him up with either a late pick in the national draft as a 19 year old or in the rookie draft.

I think that Hisham and Sumner would make a good pair of small forwards for us, working off the bigger bodies at the contests.
 
TheKITC said:
Yes, Levi has been ordinary in front of goals and has had a poor start to the season on some levels. Let's not forget Levi has played against Rory Thompson/Steven May, Alex Rance and Marcus Adams as pretty much a lone hand down there. Jones, whilst you still have to get them, has been playing in the VFL.

What I think Levi brings to the team, Jones cannot. Levi has great athletic ability for a huge man, he gets up and down the ground, is in the hunt and a big presence when the ball hits the deck and he makes a contest always, not to mention he's a contested marking beast. He is also a decent relief ruck if the team dictates that he needs to be. He shows aggression, he shows he is prepared to work and he shows passion.

Jones is a better kick but deficient in almost all other areas to Casboult IMO.

What in your opinion does Jones actually bring to the table? We know what he can do at VFL level, what does he provide us in the ones? What has changed between what we've seen on exposed form to now?
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As a forward, kicking is a fairly integral part of the caper. If Casboult can sort his demons out I'll back him in to the hilt, but right now he's hurting himself and his teammates whenever he gets the ball in hand.

He can go into the ruck. Useful...although based on his 1 hitout for the season so far it's not really worth mentioning.

Casboult shows passion...? He seems a top bloke, but more often than not he's looking frustrated and dejected, hiding his face in his hands. It boiled over this weekend with him pegging the ball at the umpire and giving away a silly free. We're not doing him in favours by keeping him in the side.

From what I've seen this year, Jones can kick straight and seems to have confidence on his side. He's not Tom Lynch, that's for sure, but if we're tossing up between a key forward who can't kick the ball between the point posts and one who has kicked 8 goals in two games in the reserves, I think the latter guy needs to be given a chance.

Make no mistake, a chance is all I'm advocating. I've been critical of Jones in the past and probably will be in future, but he's doing the right things at the moment and the bloke he's competing with is firing blanks.
 
Blue__Balls said:
As a forward, kicking is a fairly integral part of the caper. If Casboult can sort his demons out I'll back him in to the hilt, but right now he's hurting himself and his teammates whenever he gets the ball in hand.
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Let's not paint Jones as a sharpshooter here either. It's not that much of an improvement kicking wise and we really don't have that much else in the shed. Other things that are important for forwards these days include marking, forward pressure, providing a contest, leading patterns, footy IQ, providing follow up efforts, work rate, general presence and impact. All of which Casboult has Jones covered by comfortably.

Blue__Balls said:
He can go into the ruck. Useful...although based on his 1 hitout for the season so far it's not really worth mentioning.
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ATM we are playing Kreuzer and Phillips so he's currently a full time forward. It's worth mentioning when we are comparing Jones and Cas because the former cannot ruck at all and playing two rucks is a matter of conjecture for some at the moment.

Blue__Balls said:
Casboult shows passion...? He seems a top bloke, but more often than not he's looking frustrated and dejected, hiding his face in his hands. It boiled over this weekend with him pegging the ball at the umpire and giving away a silly free. We're not doing him in favours by keeping him in the side.
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That was a bull**** call to follow up a missed free kick. The passion is there and is obvious. Jones looks to go through the motions a lot when I've seen him play, looks lost too. I was sitting with Geoff Southby at NAB2 and he agreed that Jones just doesn't look like a footballer, just doesn't get the game. Runs to the wrong spots, doesn't show the effort required and simply isn't that talented.

I don't think there is any doubt Casboult is a frustrated player at the moment, his kicking is extremely errant, which undoes a lot of his really good work.

If they think it is in Levi's best interests to have a spell at a lower level, then Jones will no doubt get his shot. If they don't, I would be persisting with him for what else he provides and really put the right support around him for his kicking.
 
TheKITC said:
Strange comparison to make, as Liam is a professional. In your example he would be a pr0n star (a pretty bad one too) not some kid having sex for the first time. He made it to this level having played the game many times and is being paid a healthy contract for it.

Don't get me wrong, if the MC decide he is good enough for a call up, I will support him the same as I would the other boys. 'Supporters' who malign certain players and bag them ad naseum are the worst. I simply am putting my opinion forward in a discussion about our reserves players form and whether or not they are close to a recall. I'm of the opinion that Liam Jones has nothing more to offer Carlton football club, I may be wrong.
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I'm sure he'd do better than Levi - his inaccuracy would make him a dangerous co-star to work with
 

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mediumsizered said:
So we have someone suggesting that we use our 2 best young defenders in the forward line, alongside Levi, in preference to playing an in form Jones, who has kicked multiple goals in his last 5 games for the Northern Blues. I am now convinced the world has gone totally bonkers.
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Way to totally miss the point. Have you read the discussion?

I was saying I think using personal who are part of a future, or provide benefits to players who are to be part of our future through leadership or other such means, as opposed to Jones, who I consider to not be part of our future, would be preferable in a resetting environment. Weitering and Plowman were merely example of such players who have some potential to be used at either end.

I would much prefer to see them (again, it was purely an example) used there if the coaching staff felt they could aid our woes up forward as opposed to Liam Jones, who I don't think is an AFL standard footballer.
 
TheKITC said:
Way to totally miss the point. Have you read the discussion?

I was saying I think using personal who are part of a future, or provide benefits to players who are to be part of our future through leadership or other such means, as opposed to Jones, who I consider to not be part of our future, would be preferable in a resetting environment. Weitering and Plowman were merely example of such players who have some potential to be used at either end.

I would much prefer to see them (again, it was purely an example) used there if the coaching staff felt they could aid our woes up forward as opposed to Liam Jones, who I don't think is an AFL standard footballer.
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If we were pushing for wins, I think you'd have a fair point - but that's not the key indicator this season. We're in it for the long haul, and being able to play Weitering and Plowman together in the backline for a full season is going to benefit us a hell of a lot more in years to come than reducing our losing margins from 50 points to 30 points by swinging one of them forward. Plowman goes forward for a few games, Rowe and Jamison are both in the side - that doesn't achieve the objectives you're supporting.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/video/2016-04-18/plowman-and-sumners-first-outing

20 seconds in - Plowman realises Weitering has been outbodied and comes off his man to spoil. 1 minute 35 seconds in - Plowman not only spoils, but deliberately taps the ball to a loose Weitering, then shepherds Stringer so Weitering can immediately rebound to the open wing.

This is in their first game together. Imagine what they'll be doing when they've played 5 games together, 10, 100.
 
TheKITC said:
I must add, FWIW I think Jones will possibly be picked this week or in the near future if his forms holds up in VFL. I just don't think he will provide us with enough when/if he does get a chance. If he proves me wrong and becomes a good player, no one would be happier. I want our team to perform well, let's not forget that in all of this.
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Looking at the "big picture" I think we have to stick to Bolt's principles that
  • everyone starts with a clean slate (so forget Jones 2015 form)
  • Effort, adherence to game plan and form in VFL will be rewarded
Should not exclude Liam Jones from these principles.

If he is doing this to Bolt's satisfaction he deserves a go in the 1's.
 
Just a small thing, but the NB website is poor.
It has the schedule, but doesn't say what time the games are on.
That's pretty darn useless really.
 
VFL player review: Round 2
Cristian Filippo


14. Liam Jones
Stats: 14 disposals, 9 marks (5 contested, 4 inside 50), 3 inside 50s, 5 goals
From the coach: Another strong performance from Liam: he provided a real focal point forward of ball. He continues to provide repeat efforts and is showing good leadership.

18. Daniel Gorringe
Stats: 13 disposals, 4 marks, 4 inside 50s, 18 hitouts, 2 goals
From the coach: He gave us real spark in second half, with two important goals late in the game. He also put in some impressive follow-up efforts as a ruckman.

26. Matthew Dick
Stats: 18 disposals, 8 handball receives
From the coach: Matty played an important role as one of our defensive group, had good examples of one-on-one wins, and played an a big role in our set-up behind the ball.

31. Jayden Foster
Stats: 10 disposals
From the coach: Foster continues to work hard on areas of his game as a defender and he had a couple of impressive one-on-one contests: now it’s about finding consistency.

34. Jesse Glass-McCasker
Stats: 10 disposals, 5 handball receives
From the coach: Encouraging performance from Jesse: he spent time on Vardy, defended really well and at different times provided rebounding presence.

38. Billy Gowers
Stats: 15 disposals, 1 goal
From the coach: Bill had some important moments around the contest where he cleared the ball, and showed some signs of improvement in areas where he’s challenged. Kicked a big goal late to ice the game.

42. Mark Whiley
Stats: 11 disposals, 3 hard ball gets, 4 tackles
From the coach: He had a strong presence around the stoppages in the first half, and his ability to get first hands on the ball and apply tackle pressure was a feature.

43. Simon White
Stats: 22 disposals, 5 marks, 11 handball receives
From the coach: Terrific game from Whitey, who again gave us a very strong presence in our back six. There were a couple of individual efforts to go back with flight and compete, and he put together a four-quarter performance.

48. Kristian Jaksch
Stats: 12 disposals, 5 marks, 4 inside 50s, 3 goals
From the coach: Continues to show signs he’s on the right track, with some impressive contested marking and a big goal from outside 50. Consistency is the aim for KJ now.

49. Dennis Armfield
Stats: 14 disposals, 6 inside 50s, 4 tackles
From the coach: First up, his effort and energy were outstanding. Dennis’ ability to apply pressure was terrific, and his leadership and spirit were really the hallmarks of his game.

56. Andrew Gallucci
Stats: 12 disposals, 2 clearances, 3 tackles
From the coach: Tackling and chase pressure was a strong feature of his game, and his ability to work to the drop of the ball was an improvement on previous weeks. He provided good spark with the ball in vicinity.

60. David Cuningham
Stats: 14 disposals, 7 hard ball gets, 4 tackles, 1 goal
From the coach: Again he showed good signs of his ability to win the ball in traffic and stay strong in the contest, while this week he spent some time forward and kicked a smart goal.

65. Dillon Viojo-Rainbow
Stats: 12 disposals, 5 marks
From the coach: He didn’t have the same impact as previous weeks, but is working hard on areas of his game that we’ve identified he needs to improve. He had some important touches where he was involved in scoring chains.

67. Clem Smith
Stats: 6 disposals, 3 tackles
From the coach: In the second half he was really important with his ability to apply pressure, and was really important in setting up scoreboard pressure late in the game.

76. Jason Tutt
Stats: 21 disposals, 12 handball receives, 1 goal
From the coach: His effort to run and break the lines was important, and he continues to find a lot of the ball. There was a good intent to apply pressure.

80. Matthew Korcheck
Stats: 6 disposals, 2 contested marks, 13 hitouts
From the coach: It was his best game for the club - he competed well in the ruck, took two contested marks around the ground and provided good presence as a tall in aerial contests.
 
Geez, Clem just doesn't seem to be putting it together, does he?
Wonder if those early seniors games hurt his development from a confidence point of view?
Don't need to write him off yet though.
 
So have we totally given up on Foster as a forward?
Is there any hope he'll end up that ordinary, tall, dependable, long term defender like Lonergan or Walsh or dare I say it Bortolotto?
 
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