News & Events Norway Attacks

[Malifice]

If you read what he has written i dont think he is insane

Thats the scary part

Video games and Insanity.

Yet Al Queda terrorists that blow themselves up are apparently totally sane?

Perhaps if we remove violent viedeo games and implement a more robust mental health system, these kind of attacks will cease and the war on terror will be 'won'.

 

[grizzlym]

Video games and Insanity.

Yet Al Queda terrorists that blow themselves up are apparently totally sane?

Do you think that people who are willing to kill and sacrifice themselves to a cause are necessarily insane?

(To my mind fervent belief in something could easily be argued as borderline insanity, but the wholesome adoption of that notion places a whole bunch of people, causes and even nations into a problematic position. Was Mandela a terrorist? Even insane? It just shows, at least to me, that it's easy to simplistically brand people like this as insane but there are no absolutes here. He might be, he might not be. It was a shocking act that might have been the act of a madman, or the act of someone who truly believed in a cause. Which incidentally, I find abhorrent.)

 

[Malifice]

Do you think that people who are willing to kill and sacrifice themselves to a cause are necessarily insane?

God no.

This clown in particular was completely lucid.

I just find it weird that people are ascribing vidoe games and mental health as 'causative' factors in this crime, when he pretty clearly was just a religiously motivated political terrorist.

 

[Malifice]

Probably also a sociopath of course, but thats neither here nor there.

 

[Malifice]

It's pretty simple. The only difference between a 'terrorist' and a 'freedom fighter' is that one fights for a cause that you don't believe in and the other fights for a cause that you do. I can guarantee you that the Taliban think George Bush is a terrorist and Osama Bin Laden was a freedom fighter.

Exactly.

Its all a question of perspective.

 

[grizzlym]

God no.

This clown in particular was completely lucid.

I just find it weird that people are ascribing vidoe games and mental health as 'causative' factors in this crime, when he pretty clearly was just a religiously motivated political terrorist.

Sorry, mate, wasn't suggesting you were. I was just interested in your thoughts re that point.

My view on the video game influence is I can see how it might have helped him become conditioned to the notion of killing. Acting, reacting, not thinking etc. But in no way would I ascribe it as been an initiating or motivating factor. My impression is the guy had a soldier mentality; except, of course, he provided his own war, acted on his own orders, trained himself. I believe he believed he was fighting for a cause.

Lucid is the right word. He seemed so focussed and purposeful, much like a soldier or terrorist or religious zealot.

My wife challenged my assumptions re the bloke the other night by using Mandela as an example, so finding it quite interesting to examine why etc.

 

[Malifice]

Lucid is the right word. He seemed so focussed and purposeful, much like a soldier or terrorist or religious zealot.

My wife challenged my assumptions re the bloke the other night by using Mandela as an example, so finding it quite interesting to examine why etc.

Now get into the headspace of a suicide bomber, or Kamikaze pilot.

Then youll see focussed and purpouseful.

 

[Conan Troutman]

Posted this link on the video games board yesterday, but if anyone thinks video games may even had a slight influence on the killer, I highly recommend reading this article. It goes through every reference to a video game in his manifesto, with the context in which they were written left intact...

"The Oslo massacre and violent video games: The Facts"
http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2011/07/25/3277688.htm

 

[getthefooty]

The only reason that particular scene in the video game was a little questionable imo was because the guy was undercover - he wasn't actually a bad guy. If you were actually playing as the bad guy you would sit back and say 'well, this is ****ed up but I'm only doing this because I'm the bad guy, and I'm not usually like this in real life'.

However it actually puts you on the spot, I mean what a moral dilemma to be in. Either kill innocent civilians or risk losing the trust of the enemy and thus put more innocent lives at risk because you lose the chance to apprehend him. I know you didn't actually have to kill them in the game, but extend that scene to real life and that's what you're faced with. Anyway, getting a bit off topic there.

 

[Malifice]

From the manifesto:

http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2011/07/25/3277688.htm

As we all know, the root of Europe's problems is the lack of cultural self-confidence (nationalism). Most people are still terrified of nationalistic political doctrines thinking that if we ever embrace these principles again, new "Hitler's" will suddenly pop up and initiate global Armageddon...

So to prove those on the Nationalistic Right are not monsters... He decides to brutally kill innocent people including children in the name of Nationalism.

Way to miss the point.

Needless to say; the growing numbers of nationalists in W. Europe are systematically being ridiculed, silenced and persecuted by the current cultural Marxist/multiculturalist political establishments.

And for very good reason.

Because of idiots like you. But on a National scale.

Shit this clown would execute 'only' 200,000 people - class 'A' and 'B' traitors in the opening stages of revolution. Followed by the deportation of all Muslim Europeans 'elsewhere'.

Sounds like a former European leader whose name escapes me.

You cannot defeat Islamisation or halt/reverse the Islamic colonization of Western Europe without first removing the political doctrines manifested through multiculturalism/cultural Marxism...

This is also where Hitler started.

What a chilling read.

 

[Stocks_go_Up]

The guy was a smart mofo. Unfortunately he became obsessed with what became his calling. I managed to read 1/3 of his 1500 page book, some pretty interesting thoughts and comments.

 

[Malifice]

The guy was a smart mofo. Unfortunately he became obsessed with what became his calling. I managed to read 1/3 of his 1500 page book, some pretty interesting thoughts and comments.

Totally misguided thoughts and comments you mean.

The guy was an Ultra Right wing, Islamophobic, Nationalistic redneck.

Who not incidentally admired John Howard.

 

[HarryTiger]

The marketing department at Skins have their work cut out for them

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...k_in_diving_suit_with_gun_(self_portrait).jpg

"Marxist Hunter - Norway - Multiculti Traitor Hunting Permit"

 

[Malifice]

The marketing department at Skins have their work cut out for them

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...k_in_diving_suit_with_gun_(self_portrait).jpg

"Marxist Hunter - Norway - Multiculti Traitor Hunting Permit"

Is that even a real Gat?

The bayonet looks rubber.

 

[HarryTiger]

I take it you mean the gun, I don't know.

I wondered if his face was real, looks like CGI. Perhaps he airbrushed it.

Skins - As used by...

He used one of these with a 30 round mag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Mini-14

 

[Plugger35]

Yeah the makers of Skins must be stoked to have him associated with their product. Quite the merchandising opportunity there.

 

[SpareTowel]

malifice, it's easy to just demonise the killer, but it's important to look at the culture and society that produced the killer. from what i know, nordic countries have the highest per capita intake of muslim refugees, probably because the local populations birth rates are so low. many of these refugees come from the least developed parts of some of the least developed countries. importing them en masse into small, homogeneous, secular countries is bound to create conflict.

 

[Malifice]

malifice, it's easy to just demonise the killer, but it's important to look at the culture and society that produced the killer. from what i know, nordic countries have the highest per capita intake of muslim refugees, probably because the local populations birth rates are so low. many of these refugees come from the least developed parts of some of the least developed countries. importing them en masse into small, homogeneous, secular countries is bound to create conflict.

I actually agree with you partly.

Its vital we look at the motivations behind the killings, and see them for what they are. Just as I posit we should be listening to Al Queda to see what thier gripes are - some of which are actually quite legitimate (removal of the US from the ME and a stop to invasions and bombings of ME nations).

Dont get me wrong - some of AQ's objectives are deluded. The desire for a world wide caliphate, and the destruction of Isreal in particular, and should be treated as such

Notwithstanding the above, in my objective opinion, this guy was more than a little deluded. None of his goals were in any way reasonable. He desired a nationalistic ethnocentric christian state, was opposed to liberty and liberalism, and wanted the execution of 200,000 political 'traitors', and the deportation of all Muslims from Europe. Last guy to advocate for this kind of thing was a German Fuehrer - and we all know how that turned out.

His manifesto is pretty clear on this:

Of course the Norwegian killer's ideology, spelled out in mind-numbing detail in his 1,500-page online manifesto, is both repulsive and absurd. Its main focus is hatred of Islam and Muslims — who he wants deported from Europe — rooted in a self-proclaimed Christian conservatism. He declares himself hostile to "cultural Marxism", while being both pro-Israel and antisemitic, and a champion of anti-Muslim rage from India to the Arctic circle.

The killer has evidently absorbed the far right's shift from the language of race to the language of culture. But what is most striking is... the claim that Islam and Islamism pose a mortal threat to western civilisation.

It's all there: the supposed Islamisation of Europe, the classic conspiracism of the "Eurabia" takeover fantasy, the racist hysteria about the Muslim birthrate, the inevitable clash of civilisations, the hatred of "multiculturalism" and the supposed appeasement of Islam by the European elite, which is meant to have fostered a climate where it's impossible to speak about immigration.

All these themes are of course staples of conservative newspapers, commentators and websites...

The rise of Islamophobia in Europe and (abroad) is the manipulated product of a toxic blend of economic insecurity, unprotected mass migration and the consequences of a decade of western-sponsored war in the Muslim world: from Afghanistan to Iraq, Pakistan to Libya. It has become the new acceptable form of racism – far outstripping in opinion polls the level of hatred for any other religious or racial group, and embraced by those who delude themselves that anti-Muslim bigotry has nothing to do with ethnicity – and even represents some sort of defence of liberal values.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/28/rage-muslims-no-loner-breivik

Its one thing to debate the issues raised above (economic insecurity, unprotected mass migration and the consequences of a Western initiated war in the Muslim world creating an exodus of people into the West - that quite unsurprisingly have a very negative view of the West). You can add some legitimate concerns about the difficulties of assimilation in light of the above (and in light of some negative opinions of each other on both sides - the West and the Muslim world).

But all that crap about:

• the 'Islamisation' of Europe (or Australia),
• the classic conspiracism of a 'Muslim takeover' fantasy,
• the racist hysteria about the Muslim birthrate,
• the inevitable 'clash of civilisations',
• the hatred of "multiculturalism" and
• the supposed appeasement of Islam by our Political and Leftist elite, whereby it's now 'impossible to speak about immigration'.

Is largely fabricated, xenophobic and bigoted rubbish.

There are issues no doubt, but those issues frequently get caught up and swept away in hysterical xenophobia by people who dont really understand them.

 

[Aussie Assault]

This fool was sentenced just before. He was considered sane & got 21yrs with 10 before being eligible for parole.

Unbelievable really.

 

[Malifice]

This fool was sentenced just before. He was considered sane & got 21yrs with 10 before being eligible for parole.

Unbelievable really.

Firstly, will not be paroled.

Secondly, what a BS sentence. If he's ever released it'll be a crime.

 

[scout]

How does that work, only 21 years for 77 deaths. Should be life.

He's 33yo now, that makes him only 54 on release. Feel for the survivors & families of the victims.

 

[fairdinkum]

This fool was sentenced just before. He was considered sane & got 21yrs with 10 before being eligible for parole.

Unbelievable really.

He was clearly sane.

Norwegian laws are very different to our own.

Nothing unbelievable about it.

In fact, I am impressed that Norway did not end up retrospectively changing their laws to punish Brievik more than they otherwise could. Good on them.

Anyhow, if Brievik hasn't renounced his ways by the time he is released (and possibly even if he does), he will be taken care of before he can do this again, one would think.

Props to Norway.

 

[GOAUS!]

How does that work, only 21 years for 77 deaths. Should be life.

He's 33yo now, that makes him only 54 on release. Feel for the survivors & families of the victims.

21 years is the maximum sentence in Norway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Norway

 

[ioppolo]

21 years is the maximum sentence in Norway. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Norway

Wow. Just wow. Norway must have a decent crime rate to only have a max 21 years...

 

[Plugger35]

21 years is a shockingly light sentence for murdering so many people but I remember hearing somewhere that there is some way they can keep him locked up longer if they want to.

I doubt he will ever be released and if he is I hope they release him on to Utoya island and then hunt the prick down and shoot him like he did with all those people he shot.