Not Just Ratten Responsible.

[gbatman]

Carlton's tactical and coaching blunders are not just Ratten's fault. A lot of what happens on the field is quite good but how our midfield plays at times and how our forward structures itself can be quite disgraceful. While Ratten is head coach he is not the only one to blame for the unorganised rabble that is our forward set up. He is not the only person watching over the team from the box on match day.

Matthew Lappin (Forward Coach), Robert Harvey (Midfield Coach) and Mark Riley (Midfield Coach) must be made accountable for the rot that we are seeing. Obviously there was always going to be a lot of work to do restructuring the forward half after Fevola was traded. I just see so many stupid things happen in our forward area and saw just about all of it tonight. If that is the structure and set up that Matthew Lappin is going with and if that is the way Lappin wants our forwards to play then it's time we moved him on and got another forward coach.
Also as for our midfielders and why they are happy to run forward and deep forward but not set up defencivly and push back into defence is something that I would like to hear explained from Riley and Harvey.

Our forward setup and the way our midfield runs is hurting us both defencively and offencively, it's a disgrace. As good of a player Lappin was he might not be much of a coach if he can't see and rectify all these things that are wrong with our forward half. If I had a choice I would chase Matthew Lloyd as forward coach. I believe we have a load of talent up forward and it's because of that we have done any good at all, it's just our structure when exploited gives our team no chance, that's why when we lose we lose big, score low and concede loads.

So before we all get on Ratten's case, just remember it might not be all his fault.

 

[Alpha1]

How about our shit disposal skills? Is our coaching panel so stupid to not see they had three loose men in our forward 50 and yet the players kept bombing it long, are we that ****ing stupid?

 

[Tanks_Alot]

I don't see how the coach is responsible for Bryce Gibbs missing a target by 20 meters. Or handballs to team mate's feet such as when Simmo h/b to Murph in the third quarter. 2 unforgivable turnovers that cost us goals.

 

[gbatman]

How about our shit disposal skills? Is our coaching panel so stupid to not see they had three loose men in our forward 50 and yet the players kept bombing it long, are we that ****ing stupid?

Yes the kicking was poor but remember this, it's damn hard to hit a target when:

1. Your side doesn not creat space and in fact does a lot to clog it up.
2. Your forwards don't move, don't lead and don't function as a team.
3. Those lose men are backmen and you allow them to be one on two and don't make them accountable.

When there is no structure or game plan there is not space and even the best kicks can't pick out targets. But those few mentioned occasions where kicking errors as much as poor structure and coaching. What I am saying our forward structure was poor and our midfielders getting sucked in to the forward line made things hard. They made us look a lot worse by foot than we really are. While there were quite a few blatant skill errors it was not this that cost us the game, had it been close then yes, but it wasnt, and it wasn't as if we hadn't matched them, even out played them for a lot of the game in the midfield.

P.S. Lose a bet Alpha?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

How about our shit disposal skills? Is our coaching panel so stupid to not see they had three loose men in our forward 50 and yet the players kept bombing it long, are we that ****ing stupid?

The coaching panel can not will them to select an option up forward that they themselves can see. Was that the way they were instructed to go inside 50? No. Did Ratten tell them so at quarter time? Yes he did. Rohan Smith heard him say it.

This comes down to the players and if it was not because they are not too bright and don't think, then it is because of inferred pressure and their lack of ability to remain composed.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

The coaching panel can not will them to select an option up forward that they themselves can see. Was that the way they were instructed to go inside 50? No. Did Ratten tell them so at quarter time? Yes he did. Rohan Smith heard him say it.

We go way too narrow out of the oppostion 50.

Would reckon that was painfully obvious, over and over, over and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and over

.....and over again.

Any monkey with a dartboard coulda worked that out.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We go way too narrow out of the oppostion 50.

Would reckon that was painfully obvious, over and over, over and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and overover and over

.....and over again.

Any monkey with a dartboard coulda worked that out.

Out of our defensive 50? Put that down to terrible skills that just fester into a complete lack of confidence.

The amount of times the Dogs had more numbers to the ball was outrageous. Somewhere we had a group of players not working hard enough, not fit enough or just not reading the play the way an AFL footballer should.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Out of our defensive 50? Put that down to terrible skills that just fester into a complete lack of confidence.

The amount of times the Dogs had more numbers to the ball was outrageous. Somewhere we had a group of players not working hard enough, not fit enough or just not reading the play the way an AFL footballer should.

We showed our hand in the first five minutes.

And did it again, and again, and.....

Christ we had the pill 380 times champ,
like we do every week.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

I don't see how the coach is responsible for Bryce Gibbs missing a target by 20 meters. Or handballs to team mate's feet such as when Simmo h/b to Murph in the third quarter. 2 unforgivable turnovers that cost us goals.

It's just illogical to suggest that the reason we were hammered last night is that 20 odd, ordinarily skillful Carlton players were all crap, spiritless and bad at hitting targets.

The structures and pressure of the opposition cause these mistakes by removing options. Gibbs is normally a gun at hitting a target in space. The forward congestion and the coaching panel's refusal to respond to it makes these errors commonplace.

Sure, the coaching panel can't be held responsible for one event, but when 90% of the team is coughing it up attempting to follow the plan, questions must be asked.

 

[incog43]

Out of our defensive 50? Put that down to terrible skills that just fester into a complete lack of confidence.

The amount of times the Dogs had more numbers to the ball was outrageous. Somewhere we had a group of players not working hard enough, not fit enough or just not reading the play the way an AFL footballer should.

Or couldnt be bothered, it was to windy, maybe it was to cold, it was Sunday..

Skill levels are terrible, not much difference to last year. Lack of confidence, perceived pressure, here's a thought, are they scared of winning or scared of losing. There is a real mental weakness in that side, the coach as well I think.

 

[Jeremias]

Ratten and the coaching staff are no doubt responsible for many things, but a complete and utter lack of effort comes down to the players and the players alone.

 

[Alpha1]

The coaching panel can not will them to select an option up forward that they themselves can see. Was that the way they were instructed to go inside 50? No. Did Ratten tell them so at quarter time? Yes he did. Rohan Smith heard him say it.

This comes down to the players and if it was not because they are not too bright and don't think, then it is because of inferred pressure and their lack of ability to remain composed.

Well there you go ODN skills again, even under no pressure I see them turn it over, or handball it at a players feet, so I guess in eight years our skills haven't improved at all, great stuff down at Carlton.

 

[gbatman]

Before you bag the skill level think about this. When we are going in long and direct to a crowded forward line instead of doing the right thing and working the ball around then sure, things look bad. No one can hit a target amongst the soup we call our forward line structure/gameplan.

 

[Alpha1]

Before you bag the skill level think about this. When we are going in long and direct to a crowded forward line instead of doing the right thing and working the ball around then sure, things look bad. No one can hit a target amongst the soup we call our forward line structure/gameplan.

It's not just going forward, our skills all over the ground are lacking, if you hand ball to a players feet who is in the clear 9 times out of 10 it will be a turn over, it hasn't just been happening this season, has been going on for a long time now.

 

[Sin City]

Before you bag the skill level think about this. When we are going in long and direct to a crowded forward line instead of doing the right thing and working the ball around then sure, things look bad. No one can hit a target amongst the soup we call our forward line structure/gameplan.

Spot on.

 

[Alpha1]

And how about our skills around the ground? I don't want perfection, I want them to be able to hand ball to a man without ****ing giving it to their feet, I want them to be able to kick to a target 15 meters away without ****ing it up as usual.

 

[blue healer]

Carlton's tactical and coaching blunders are not just Ratten's fault. A lot of what happens on the field is quite good but how our midfield plays at times and how our forward structures itself can be quite disgraceful. While Ratten is head coach he is not the only one to blame for the unorganised rabble that is our forward set up. He is not the only person watching over the team from the box on match day.

Matthew Lappin (Forward Coach), Robert Harvey (Midfield Coach) and Mark Riley (Midfield Coach) must be made accountable for the rot that we are seeing. Obviously there was always going to be a lot of work to do restructuring the forward half after Fevola was traded. I just see so many stupid things happen in our forward area and saw just about all of it tonight. If that is the structure and set up that Matthew Lappin is going with and if that is the way Lappin wants our forwards to play then it's time we moved him on and got another forward coach.
Also as for our midfielders and why they are happy to run forward and deep forward but not set up defencivly and push back into defence is something that I would like to hear explained from Riley and Harvey.

Our forward setup and the way our midfield runs is hurting us both defencively and offencively, it's a disgrace. As good of a player Lappin was he might not be much of a coach if he can't see and rectify all these things that are wrong with our forward half. If I had a choice I would chase Matthew Lloyd as forward coach. I believe we have a load of talent up forward and it's because of that we have done any good at all, it's just our structure when exploited gives our team no chance, that's why when we lose we lose big, score low and concede loads.

So before we all get on Ratten's case, just remember it might not be all his fault.

You name the mids and forward coaches, my question is who in hell is our defensive coach?

Think our most important off season move should be to throw a packet at SOS to coach our backs.

 

[gbatman]

You name the mids and forward coaches, my question is who in hell is our defensive coach?

Think our most important off season move should be to throw a packet at SOS to coach our backs.

Our defencive coach is Brett Montgomery. If he is any good at all he must be pulling his hair out because surely he can't be getting things his way seeing our midfield and forward setup does nothing to help our defence at all. We do everything to allow space for our opposition to run and carry it quickly through the midfield and deliver it with minimal pressure to an open forward line.

Think of all the games we have lost, can you remember how well those sides midfield pushed back into defence? Can you remember how well the Bulldog players pushed back into defence? Ask yourself, when do we do this.
We don't, we don't help our defence and when our midfielders get sucked in so far forward and leave the midfield right open our backline has no chance.
We have a good backline and they do well considering how we play.


I don't think you understand just how much a poor forward structure and a midfield that positions itself so it can't protect the space in the midfield and get back to help the defence hurts you and your defence at high level football. I don't know if Montgomery is pushing for us to play properly or not, I don't know if any of our coaches are, I just highly doubt that it is our players failing to implement a game plan. It would not be that hard to begin to fix things.

I don't know if it is our coaches or Greg Williams or people like that encouraging our midfielders to only run one way or not but our administration need to get rid of all those that are because it's killing us on the field.

 

[Close to 17]

Carlton doesn't have a skills coach. Each line coach takes responsibility.

 

[Sir CJ]

David King made a good point on 3aw tonight, at the end of the day, the buck stops with Rats, cos he made it publicly clear during the week that he was putting the majority of his planning into Brian Lake, yet Brian Lake had his best game of the year

It was absolutely stunning to see how often the Blues just kept bombing the ball into the 50 and give Lake a free reign to do whatever he pleased, why didn't Rats react to this and drill the team for doing so, and work around it

Unfortunately I think Rats is tactically inept and doesn't react quick enough when we are under serious pressure

 

[gbatman]

I think Craig Bradley is or was a part time skills coach. I dunno, last night our skills were poor but our game plan and structure make our skills look worse than what they are. Good sides make space and good decisions and that makes it easier/possible to execute skills.

Yep Rats is tactically inept and doesn't react quick enough and looks to be a one game plan wonder. But then again there a team of coaches and surely they can identify and rectify these things. Our coaches are a team, they are all responsible for what goes wrong coaching wise.

 

[Big Red is back]

Ratten and the coaching staff are no doubt responsible for many things, but a complete and utter lack of effort comes down to the players and the players alone.

Sometimes a sign the players have lost confidence in the gameplan

 

[gbatman]

Sometimes a sign the players have lost confidence in the gameplan

I don't think there was that big of a lack of effort. our game plan and structure was bad. We were pushing shit up hill. Ratten's game plan works against some but not against others. players need to know when to play a certain style and when not to.

But it would not be hard to lose confidence in that game plan.

 

[sosos]

I've been lurking and reading thread after post after thread and I don't think enough credit has been given to the opposition.

As much as I hate losing like everyone else, and as much as I want to apportion blame and look for fixes, the over-riding reason Carlton lost is because the Bulldogs played at an unbelievable level.

Footpassing was superb.
Teamwork was superb.
Sacrificial acts were superb.
Intensity was superb.

Yes Carlton played poorly.
Yes Carlton always manage to play teams into form.

But the opposition "came to play"

Just like Carlton did against the Saints and Cats earlier this year.
Find that mojo and the team will start to win again.

None of this endless damaging navel gazing does anyone any good.

Suck it up, move on, back your team and coach and let them sort it out.

Like we can do anything else.

 

[gbatman]

they played really well, but we had it just as much as they did and went forward just as much yet they pounded us. Teams have won premierships with forward lines only a little better than ours, makes you think.

I dunno I have been backing the team and coach for a while. We have improved in some areas but have not improved in many such as forward structure and our defencive side of our midfield. I mean some of the coaching blunders are very obvious and frequent. We are obviously playing a poor inconsistant brand of footy.