Society/Culture Notional Take Back Australia Day

[Geelong_Sicko]

There is absolutely no sense in building a new hospital if you can't staff it.
And right now - that's exactly the position we're in. Those unplanned arrivals are not filling needs and requirements. The stress that our medical staff are under is not a secret. Our teachers are resigning in droves. We don't have enough police, and those we have are snapping under the pressure.
Australia needs to stop, and think. Breathe.

I like this train of thought. Skilled migration is an important piece of the puzzle here. Of the unplanned arrivals - how many can be taught needed skillsets?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

You've been asking whom it is we're supposed to be taking Australia back from. It's a good question, and not one easily answered.
I believe the answer lies in a couple of different places. One is something I've noted before, the idea of the "Left" and Corporate Australia becoming strange bedfellows.
I'm probably going to get back to this at some point.

When 'Collective Good' and 'Individual Advancement' both need a strong State structure to thrive in you are going to need compromise. There might be an awkward power dynamic going on but believe me, there's room for both in the one bed.

 

[Carringbush2010]

In my experience, there aren't many who are willing to talk about it at all, without knowing exactly what sort of company they were in first.

Fair call, I'm more talking about when it inevitably comes up in conversation. I haven't found any to be immediately dismissive when salient points are discussed.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's the new developments I'm talking about - where the changes are visible.

Fair enough, if you're talking Butler and Alkimos, it's not all and sundry the same house next to each other, yes there's streets that are, like near Butler station on the train line - not the whole of Butler though.

I'll also comment on your use of the word "fault" up there.
Saying that there are things resulting from high immigrations numbers is less emotionally charged than saying it's the fault of immigration.

But it's neither result or fault, the fault lies in inadequate or inefficient govt / funds not 'there's too many people!' which seems to be the simple catch cry of many (who are likely not bigoted, but just can't think critically)

The idea that this sort of thing is a problem which can be solved simply by throwing money at it is definitely oversimplifying things.
IT doesn't actually matter if Australia can fund new infrastructure or not.

Never suggested that, see above. IMO govt / private enterprise which is charged with the infrastructure for whatever reason (greed likely private enterprise like developers) is inefficient at providing said infrastructure.

Average block sizes have been falling for a decades, accelerated in recent years, particularly in the Perth area... we used to live on a least 700m2 even in the heart of suburbia. Many homes would have a couple of fruit trees and a veggie garden out the back. Back when I were a lad, my parents bought a quarter acre on a shoestring one-income budget.
It is fast becoming the norm. I could talk a little more about the lifestyle changes as well, if you like.

Talk to private land developers, this is not the 'result' or 'fault' of immigration or even 'unplanned arrivals'

Neither is it a matter of the infrastructure itself - you need the people, too.

Those unplanned arrivals are not filling needs and requirements.

There is claim or belief - choose your term - that as a country we don't scrutinize stringently enough migrants. If you were to believe reports we're one of the most stringent on the planet.

As far as unplanned, well there's not anyone can do, unplanned are basically refugees and we'd be breaking certain international laws to refuse them. I don't have the detail but know for sure we can't just 'you're not a plumber refugee, entry refused'

And just on refugees, I'm not sure what the percentage make up, but more than confident it'd be minuscule to the whole number of migrants.

 

[CM86]

What are you there for?

Would this be a bad time to make a >f**king your mum< joke?

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Would this be a bad time to make a >f**king your mum< joke?

A lot of people don't know that decreased estrogen levels in post-menopausal women can lead to reduced elasticity and possibly serious skin tears 'down there'.

Could lead to Emergency Department time and an awkward conversation at triage.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

 

[schneebly111]

The stress that our medical staff are under is not a secret. Our teachers are resigning in droves. We don't have enough police, and those we have are snapping under the pressure.

Cops, teachers and medical always been pressure. And they’re all dependent on skilled migration, they would collapse without them. Health workers it’s obvious but also speak to a few cops and you’ll realise how many of them are recent migrants.

You've been asking whom it is we're supposed to be taking Australia back from. It's a good question, and not one easily answered.

Who but taking Australia back to when? When was this country mythically “great”?

 

[evolved2]

A growing movement, no doubt.

Here's today's effort in Australia's largest city.

View attachment 2488064

Most voters don't march, Champ.

 

[Gethelred]

Paranoid delusions if they think they got a standing ovation in an ED for reading that out……

 

[schneebly111]

Most voters don't march, Champ.

Correct:

 

[evolved2]

Correct:

View attachment 2488514

I don't see your point.

 

[Cyg1992]

View attachment 2488377

View attachment 2488379

The Sydney one went by without a mention. Only saw it on one 9 news headline on the MS edge start page and the little mentions of it in here.

I thought the melb one would be bigger as those things seem to get more traction down there but seems it's fizzled out even more down there.

Once trump keels over these things will just shrivel back to the telegram groups.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Watched a brief clip on 9 and they showed soundbites for 2 people for the anti immigration side. One guy with a heavy Irish accent, the other Greek.

 

[schneebly111]

I don't see your point.

The One Nation or even LNP position isn’t highly supported in the electorate.

 

[Episode IV]

Cops, teachers and medical always been pressure. And they’re all dependent on skilled migration, they would collapse without them. Health workers it’s obvious but also speak to a few cops and you’ll realise how many of them are recent migrants.

Yes, we've been having a discussion about why that is. Some time ago now. Do try to keep up.

Who but taking Australia back to when? When was this country mythically “great”?

I'm having a little difficulty processing the sentence "who but taking Australia back to when".
The words are English, but...

 

[schneebly111]

Yes, we've been having a discussion about why that is. Some time ago now. Do try to keep up.

Well I could tell you why. You know that great “Australian culture” we’re always told about? It doesn’t foster a real sense of academia and achievement compared to Asian culture. I mean you’ll never see a degree qualified professional earn less than a tradie in Asia.

 

[GrayRanga]

Watched a brief clip on 9 and they showed soundbites for 2 people for the anti immigration side. One guy with a heavy Irish accent, the other Greek.

Given that Melbourne and Victoria had free Public Transport for the day with the new tunnels opening, I would have thought that all the hard done by's would have celebrated the opportunity to have their displeasure recorded by marching against the migrants free of cost.

Oh, it was raining.

I wonder if the publicity about the close ties of the NSN finally tipped the silent majority against being publically aligned with a group of Neo Nazi's who was going to deport with extreme displeasure all the non Australians (whoever they are)

 

[Cyber_punk]

Given that Melbourne and Victoria had free Public Transport for the day with the new tunnels opening, I would have thought that all the hard done by's would have celebrated the opportunity to have their displeasure recorded by marching against the migrants free of cost.

Oh, it was raining.

I wonder if the publicity about the close ties of the NSN finally tipped the silent majority against being publically aligned with a group of Neo Nazi's who was going to deport with extreme displeasure all the non Australians (whoever they are)

Pretty possible. Crikey said the turnout was around 700. Well down from the last few times.

 

[Grin]

Pretty possible. Crickey said the turnout was around 700. Well down from the last few times.

Racists tend to be quite lazy and entitled. Most would have expected others to do the lifting.

 

[evolved2]

The One Nation or even LNP position isn’t highly supported in the electorate.

Can you determine the public stance on a single issue based on primary voting intention?

I view the ALP as the most competent choice of federal government and would be counted among their voters despite disagreement on their migration policy (among others).

 

[Episode IV]

Well I could tell you why. You know that great “Australian culture” we’re always told about? It doesn’t foster a real sense of academia and achievement compared to Asian culture. I mean you’ll never see a degree qualified professional earn less than a tradie in Asia.

Hmm.
It seems that to people like Scheebs here, Asians are Australians when Schneebly wants them to be, and not when Schneebly doesn't.

And then, of course, we have the use of the term "Asian" culture, which... well, I can think of quite a few different ones, and not all of them even like each other very much. Do they all look the same to you? Are you counting India in this assessment? They're Asian too, you know. Actually, even Turkey is a part of Asia. Well, the majority of it is.

I mean, exactly what is "Asian" culture Schneebs?
You're a bit of a racist, aren't you.

 

[schneebly111]

Can you determine the public stance on a single issue based on primary voting intention?

I view the ALP as the most competent choice of federal government and would be counted among their voters despite disagreement on their migration policy (among others).

Migration was the 7th most important issue last election, and still only a top concern for a fraction of voters

Vote Compass data shows rise in importance of cost of living for voters

Vote Compass data shows cost of living is the most important issue for respondents ahead of the federal election.

www.abc.net.au

Most people wouldn’t be able to tell you the difference between a 1000k or 250k net migration intake or the impact of increased temp visas.

The 200-250k level has worked well in the last few decades.

As far as public discontent the latest anti migrant rallies got 200-300 cookers each and is fading quickly. That movement was more about culture than economics anyway.

On the whole I don’t see widespread anti migrant sentiment in the public.

 

[Episode IV]

Fair enough, if you're talking Butler and Alkimos, it's not all and sundry the same house next to each other, yes there's streets that are, like near Butler station on the train line - not the whole of Butler though.

Yes, well, I'm afraid we're just going to have leave that at disagreement.
That coastline is as ugly as shit, people are buying there because it's the only "affordable" option (and often for investment purposes), and I'm not the only one who thinks so.
The issue at hand is the decline in living standards, or rather aspects of that argument. Particularly, in this instance, housing.

But it's neither result or fault, the fault lies in inadequate or inefficient govt / funds not 'there's too many people!' which seems to be the simple catch cry of many (who are likely not bigoted, but just can't think critically)

So... we don't have enough houses because there aren't too many people? How are we running out of houses if there aren't more people looking for accommodation than can find it?

And weren't you the one telling us five minutes ago that the funds are available if needed?

Never suggested that, see above. IMO govt / private enterprise which is charged with the infrastructure for whatever reason (greed likely private enterprise like developers) is inefficient at providing said infrastructure.

Talk to private land developers, this is not the 'result' or 'fault' of immigration or even 'unplanned arrivals'

Of course it is. Developers wouldn't have any development to do at all if not for population increases.
Without migration, in most years Australia's population would actually be shrinking. If the planned arrivals we budget for were actually the primary contributor to net migration, everything would be ticking along quite nicely.

Although perhaps Uber might not be meeting its 20 minute delivery times for lack of drivers.

There is claim or belief - choose your term - that as a country we don't scrutinize stringently enough migrants. If you were to believe reports we're one of the most stringent on the planet.

We are - with regard to planned migration.
Planned migration, once again, is not the issue.

As far as unplanned, well there's not anyone can do, unplanned are basically refugees and we'd be breaking certain international laws to refuse them. I don't have the detail but know for sure we can't just 'you're not a plumber refugee, entry refused'

Why not? What are "they" going to do if we decide to reduce unplanned migration down to more manageable levels?
Economic sanctions? Or maybe we'll be invaded by the USA, who knows.

Planned migration in Australia is not unmanageable. It actually even includes partner visas and the like.
Unplanned migrants in Australia are not refugees, for the most part.
Unplanned migration does include refugees, but refugees account for only about 20k (or less) applications every year. Usually it's closer to about 15k.

The vast majority of unplanned arrivals in Australia are those who have arrived here by one means or another (usually as students, temporary workers, or tourists for example) and then decided to stay. They account for about a half to 2/3 of Australia's net permanent migration in recent years.
As mentioned previously, in 2023-2024 those numbers peaked at around 660k net. If 190,000 or so of those were legal applicants, and maybe 20,000 asylum claims, then that's a hell of a lot of people left who simply decided to thumb their noses at our laws, and are now complaining we're not giving them a job and somewhere to live.

It would not be against international law to deport anyone who arrived in Australia via deception (deliberate misinterpretation of Visa conditions). Quite frankly, I'd prefer a much more stringent application of the law in Australia, if it meant some of our current issues were alleviated.
Your argument here is a furphy.

And just on refugees, I'm not sure what the percentage make up, but more than confident it'd be minuscule to the whole number of migrants.

If migration currently stands at around half a million every year (2024 peaked at nearly 700k) then unplanned arrivals are not a miniscule proportion by any means.
Those defined as "Refugees" aren't necessarily the issue either.

Did you notice in the last federal election, both parties were talking about "reducing migration"?
The talk mostly centered around reducing planned migration by about 15,000 places. Before that, there was some talk about caps on university enrolments for international students.
In other words, both major parties were talking about reducing the number of migrants by cutting back on the ones we do want here.

Ever wondered why that is?

I think one answer to your earlier question regarding who we're going to take Australia back from might be there, actually. A good start would be enforcing the law, and paying less attention to those whose arguments amount to gaslighting.

 

[Episode IV]

I like this train of thought. Skilled migration is an important piece of the puzzle here. Of the unplanned arrivals - how many can be taught needed skillsets?

Probably quite a few, but you can't bank on that being able to be done within acceptable timeframes, and particularly not when more water is being added to the bucket every year.

There are a lot of people talking about the increasing wealth gap in Australia - I think more than a few of them would do well to consider that they might not have considered all the reasons for the growing disparity.