News NWM stays at Saints (Will Faulkner wrong about being crows bound)

[JohnHinckleyJr]

WHy would yar go to ports .....

 

[240volt]

How is an 8th finish a failed year with a new coach after the year we've just had? It will show Carr is on the right track.

If we have half the injury problems next year we should improve from our present 13th even if Hinkley out is coaching us.
If we also get a crows draw we’d have to be pushing towards the 8.

 

[240volt]

Some absolutely cooked takes in this thread regarding the state of the list.

We've won the most games of all sides in the comp bar Brisbane over the previous 5 seasons. The only player of note we've lost recently is Houston, who was aging anyway.

Assuming we don't get crippled with injures again next year we will 100% be playing finals.

People want more than just playing finals, we had that with Hinkley.
Pointless playing finals if you’re going to fold like a pack of cards when things get hot.
That’s why the list as it stands isn’t going anywhere.

 

[SparklingAle69]

If we have half the injury problems next year we should improve from our present 13th even if Hinkley out is coaching us.
If we also get a crows draw we’d have to be pushing towards the 8.

Agreed, so an 8th finish wouldn't be a fail.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

If we have half the injury problems next year we should improve from our present 13th even if Hinkley out is coaching us.
If we also get a crows draw we’d have to be pushing towards the 8.

I think Carr will be great and I also think we could go either way.

The group might respond to his accountability and then we will 100% make finals.

OR

The group might not like being held accountable given how they have been spook fed and it might take Carr a year or two to clean them out.

 

[Cosmicwinduptoy24]

People want more than just playing finals, we had that with Hinkley.
Pointless playing finals if you’re going to fold like a pack of cards when things get hot.
That’s why the list as it stands isn’t going anywhere.

I think you're missing the point of my post. People in here are saying the list is doomed and we need a full rebuild which isn't the case. Finals is obviously not the final objective.

 

[longdonkey]

I apologise for having a different opinion to you. You actually have no idea wether our current form would effect his thinking.

We've had multiple years towards the pointy end of the comp with a dud coach. We have a young list, one of the best midfields in the league even without Nas and the future looks bright. In my opinion a 5-10 game bad streak, with injuries to key players and a lame duck coach who has checked out is not changing his mind.

 

[240volt]

Agreed, so an 8th finish wouldn't be a fail.

If you want to take that opinion then Ken has had a lot of success apart from this year.
I’ve always taken the view of the Port of old.
You don’t win the flag you have failed.
That’s what we need to get back to mentality.
This making up the numbers is bullshit

 

[240volt]

I think Carr will be great and I also think we could go either way.

The group might respond to his accountability and then we will 100% make finals.

OR

The group might not like being held accountable given how they have been spook fed and it might take Carr a year or two to clean them out.

I’m 100% positive we need to turn the list over if we are serious about actually winning a flag.
We have zero depth and there’s to many of our starting line up that will never take us to what we want.
Yes we have a good core group but we fall away after that.
I’m not expecting miracle’s but am hopeful there will be more accountability going forward.

 

[longdonkey]

Most first year coaches start with a list in bad shape (like Ken),

I don't like seeing this myth perpetuated. It was Primus that got dealt the pair of fours when it comes to the list - not Hinkers.

 

[PJ Power]

We've had multiple years towards the pointy end of the comp with a dud coach. We have a young list, one of the best midfields in the league even without Nas and the future looks bright. In my opinion a 5-10 game bad streak, with injuries to key players and a lame duck coach who has checked out is not changing his mind.

The midfield needs a new coach there. Don’t know if it’s Carr being distracted this year, but he’s let Butters go alone.

Facts are:
JHF, even allowing for injury, took a step back this year and did not elevate his game after the preseason hype - think 3 goals in Indigenous All-Stars game. Also was poor defensively which was called out a lot, and failed to step up in Butters’ absence from rounds 1-3.

Rozee was so disappointing in the midfield that he got moved to HB

Butters kicked 1 goal all year

Drew has been the biggest flop

Wines has battled but looks slow and incapable of competing on the outside

Bergman was a brief shining light

Burgoyne regressed on his wing

Mead became yuckier than he was

Neither Lorenz or Jackson, despite AFL exposure, have moved into the centre square and both were surpassed by Watkins at SaNfL level

Carr had a shocking year as line coach

 

[longdonkey]

WHy would yar go to ports .....

View attachment 2397593

 

[TeeKray]

The midfield needs a new coach there. Don’t know if it’s Carr being distracted this year, but he’s let Butters go alone.

Facts are:
JHF, even allowing for injury, took a step back this year and did not elevate his game after the preseason hype - think 3 goals in Indigenous All-Stars game. Also was poor defensively which was called out a lot, and failed to step up in Butters’ absence from rounds 1-3.

Rozee was so disappointing in the midfield that he got moved to HB

Butters kicked 1 goal all year

Drew has been the biggest flop

Wines has battled but looks slow and incapable of competing on the outside

Bergman was a brief shining light

Burgoyne regressed on his wing

Mead became yuckier than he was

Neither Lorenz or Jackson, despite AFL exposure, have moved into the centre square and both were surpassed by Watkins at SaNfL level

Carr had a shocking year as line coach

I think midfield is clearly the biggest looming issue from a list management perspective.

Boak is gone, Wines won't be there much longer, Butters likely to depart after next season, Carr seemingly committed to playing Rozee in the back line. There is a lot resting on an injury prone Horne-Francis and what is very much the 'idea' of Bergman as a midfielder.

It's no wonder they want to trade the farm for NWM because if they don't that midfield has rebuild written all over it - and we all know the club are allergic to that concept.

 

[Cosmicwinduptoy24]

I think midfield is clearly the biggest looming issue from a list management perspective.

Boak is gone, Wines won't be there much longer, Butters likely to depart after next season, Carr seemingly committed to playing Rozee in the back line. There is a lot resting on an injury prone Horne-Francis and what is very much the 'idea' of Bergman as a midfielder.

It's no wonder they want to trade the farm for NWM because if they don't that midfield has rebuild written all over it - and we all know the club are allergic to that concept.

What makes you think Butters will leave after next season? I haven’t seen anything to support that idea, other than the usual media speculation we’ve heard before with Wines, Bergman, and others.

Midfield is clearly our strongest area on the ground, and looks in very good shape for the next five years IMO. Even better if we get NAS.

 

[Tibbs]

Good luck with that. I'll be tipping a 8-12th finish next year. Another failed mediocre year for this organisation.

I am OK with that if it comes on the back of cementing a better game plan, developing the crop of good young players coming though, and "rebuilding" the mentality and cohesiveness of the squad and club.

In my opinion, NWM, will be like Dawson arriving at the Crows ... he will be a major part of the change of culture. besides his obvious talent, I am just super impressed with the way he carries himself ... Our future captain IMO

If we see the above happen, I will he totally OK with finishing 9th, or 10th, but seeing solid proof that we are on the way to becoming "un-Hinleyfied!"

 

[longdonkey]

The midfield needs a new coach there. Don’t know if it’s Carr being distracted this year, but he’s let Butters go alone.

Facts are:

I do agree with a fair bit of what you say here and the easy answer would be for me to say Hinkley ...and also injuries.
This is my opinion on these things

JHF, even allowing for injury, took a step back this year and did not elevate his game after the preseason hype - think 3 goals in Indigenous All-Stars game. Also was poor defensively which was called out a lot, and failed to step up in Butters’ absence from rounds 1-3.

You're right he wasn't as good but he also spent much more time forward. He also had a couple match winning games then got injured. He'll be back better than ever. Even Donuts couldn't beat the quality out of him.

Butters kicked 1 goal all year

Kicking goals isn't his thing. He's had 21 goal assists though which is his best ever season.

Drew has been the biggest flop

Offensively he's been ordinary . His tagging role on Newcombe was epic though and he's still one of the best and prolific tacklers in the league.

Wines has battled but looks slow and incapable of competing on the outside

He's had good games and is still very solid in tight

Bergman was a brief shining light

Burgoyne regressed on his wing

Mead became yuckier than he was

All true but Burgoyne is young and learning

Neither Lorenz or Jackson, despite AFL exposure, have moved into the centre square and both were surpassed by Watkins at SaNfL level

Both young and learning and lacking opportunity. My suspicion is both these guys will struggle unless they play on ball and the jury is out whether they have the quality to play AFL on ball.

Carr had a shocking year as line coach

I don't like saying this - Our on ballers have lacked stability personnel wise there have been too many changes whether due to injury or changing roles. I get the feeling Carr wants to play Rozee at half back, Stinkers on ball. I think Sinkers wants to play JHF more forward, Carr more midfield ...my opinion.

 

[PJ Power]

I think midfield is clearly the biggest looming issue from a list management perspective.

Boak is gone, Wines won't be there much longer, Butters likely to depart after next season, Carr seemingly committed to playing Rozee in the back line. There is a lot resting on an injury prone Horne-Francis and what is very much the 'idea' of Bergman as a midfielder.

It's no wonder they want to trade the farm for NWM because if they don't that midfield has rebuild written all over it - and we all know the club are allergic to that concept.

Spot on. Unlike other clubs, there also isn't as much blue sky coming through from a development, SANFL level as yuu'd hope.

Because our "Big 3" were all under 25, people got carried away and assumed that while we had Butters, Rozee and JHF strutting their stuff in the midfield, we'd always be competitive. Firstly, as I've stated numerous times, those three have all failed to shine on the biggest stage in finals, including games at AO. You can argue the point all you like, but I don't think anyone of them has been in the top 3 players on the ground in a final, including last year's Hawthorn SF win. In the case of Butters and Rozee, they've played in 4 finals series for 9 games. JHF has now played in 5, so it's a decent sample size. Compounding this, is the fact that Drew and Wines haven't stepped up to cover for them, or even complemented them in those big games. Wines had some big finals performances early in his career (Collingwood 2013, Freo 2014, the second half of WCE in 2017) but nothing of substance since, even in his Brownlow year, which was a major disappointment.

Lorenz and Jackson are the only two "younger" midfield types at SANFL level. Both are still tracking to be fringe types, but should at least be better depth than what we've been used to with Mead. Between them, Moraes and Burgoyne, we need to find two regular, reliable wingers, assuming that Carr's gameplan won't completely ignore outside run and carry.

Sinn hasn't come on in the back half of this year to suggest he will be the first round quality player we expected, either at HB or as a future midfielder.

Maybe Berry and T. Cochrane can do a bit there, but we'll be waiting a long time for them to be midfield contributors of any substance.

Liddy is a handy depth player, and I think as your 22nd-26th type isn't a disaster. He's a link up player, who can eek out 50+ solid games, but I can't see him becoming Tom Atkins level.

MacKinlay intrigues me. After a shaky first 5 games at SANFL level, the last three weeks is showing some quality that makes me think he is another who could work his way onto a wing. He's a lot quicker than the others, and uses his pace more effectively.

Other than that, we're about to trade away two first round draft picks if NWM nominates us. D. Cochrane and Pilot may become big bodied unicorn-like forward-mids. Salopek and Tambe solid foot soldier types. But still, we're talking 4+ years away to see that group contribute substantially to our dream of AFL premiership success.

So in the meantime, we need the following:
1. Butters to stay and sign a decent long term contract.
2. JHF to get his body right, and fix the chinks in his game - mostly around week-to-week consistency of defensive effort (chase, harrass, tackle). His best is exceptional. He needs to make 2026 the year we all expected 2025 to be, after a very good 2024. He also needs to start dominating Showdowns, matches against Collingwood and Brisbane, and when we make them again, finals to establish himself as a bigtime player.
3. Bergman to commit to us long term, and pick up where he was trending before his contract extension was signed. The Carlton AO game was the last we really saw of that player.
4. NWM to join us and track upward from here, which is already an exceptional level.


If I'm Carr in 2026, I'm banking on a midfield of JHF, Butters, Bergman and NWM as your key 4 (with JHF and NWM spending time forward when resting, not on the bench). Wings to come from Moraes, Jackson, Lorenz, Liddy and MacKinlay.

 

[FishingRick04]

I dont think it's as doomsday for us. NAS will be an amazing addition, we really need our fitness sorted.
Bergman, Butters, JHF, NAS,.Wines rotating through the midfield will be lovely really. Our problem we lost key players to injury and not fringe players.

 

[bomberclifford]

WHy would yar go to ports .....

View attachment 2397593

Children of the Corne

 

[Janey]

Why are you tuning into Eddie Cornes?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Willsy10]

I’m as frustrated as anyone with us giving up first round draft picks, but then you watch Jones and Sinn going around, and you realise we’ve wasted a few of them too.

Most clubs have a history of wasted first rounders. The first round doesn’t guarantee anything. Which is why I have absolutely no issues at all at burning a couple first rounders on known quantities.

NWM is a no brainer. I would give up 2 first rounders plus some steak knives for him without hesitation.

 

[Willsy10]

If NWM was 28 and we were giving up 2 firsts rounders for him I’d be questioning whether it’s worth it but he is still a spring chicken with a long career ahead of him.

How we go next year, whether we bounce or not is anyone’s guess. I don’t know how you can be confident either way.

the embarassing end to this season could have some lasting psychological impact though, that is concerning, but it could go the other way too and be the massive slap in the face reality check we needed so we hit pre season with our heads down and bums up. It’s been a real warts and all end to this season, we’ve had bad seasons in the past where we’ve had a few late wins that have sugar coated things but there is no hiding from this steaming pile of turd that was 2025. I’m hoping that’s a good thing and it challenges them to work their arses off this next pre season.

 

[2121]

 

[Willsy10]

Nice

 

[TazD]

Fair enough