OBL sings from the Michael Moore hymnbook...

[GuruJane]

You're stretching Jane, and I don't think you look too elastic.

Kindly outline why you bothered starting this thread? And while you're at it give us a real reason for "OBL sings from the Michael Moore hymnbook" when even the H-S couldn't be bothered making such a link in the article you quoted.

OBL has taken a deliberate decision to attempt to influence the US elections.

OBL took the "goat story" out of Moore's film - deliberately highlighting it - becos he thinks that will help increase the opp to W.

He did this becos OBL has total contempt for western democracy and sees the "left" as the weakest link and confirmation of our decadence. Just read some of his writings.

 

[GuruJane]

It actually puts Kerry in a bit of an awkward position, because some of the simpler people out there will make that same connection.

Without leaping into the conspiracy theorist realm, is it reasonable to suggest that Osama Bin Laden is doing his damndest to get Bush reelected?

Have made inquiries and can reveal on reliable authority that OBL has been on the take from Karl Rove since 1991.

Much gratitude for your perspicacity. Am now seriously rethinking my position.

 

[funkyfreo]

Not only can we not find the guy, but we can't even make him feel threatened enough to not head down to blockbuster for a DVD!

If he has the film they should engage a "laugh-o-meter" in Afgahnistan to find him.

Seriously I doubt he has watched F911.

I don't doubt he is trying to influence, but the other way. Is far more likely to get followers with Bush in da house.

 

[evo]

Not only can we not find the guy, but we can't even make him feel threatened enough to not head down to blockbuster for a DVD!

.

Well i'm a bit ********ed off to tell the truth.How come the most wanted man in the world has the DVD at his local blockbuster but they don't have it available at mine.

 

[funkyfreo]

Well i'm a bit ********ed off to tell the truth.How come the most wanted man in the world has the DVD at his local blockbuster but they don't have it available at mine.

You know what it is like with release dates in Australia.

 

[MillerCHF]

Bin Laden's brother gives his opinion on this thread:

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11249775%5E401,00.html

Bin Ladin launches perfume
From correspondents in Washington
November 1, 2004

OSAMA bin Laden's elder half-brother took time out from launching his own perfume to tell of his upset at the al-Qaeda chief's new video.

"It was upsetting," said Yeslam bin Ladin of the latest message, in which bin Laden warned Americans that they must change their policy toward Muslims to avoid further September 11-style attacks.

"It's the violence," he told Time magazine. "It wasn't a surprise to know that he was still alive.

"I always thought that if he was killed, everybody would know it. It seems that he might have seen the Michael Moore movie Fahrenheit 9/11."

Mr Bin Ladin - who spells his name differently to the al-Qaeda leader - is based in Geneva and has Swiss-Saudi citizenship. He gave the interview in Paris during the launch of a new perfume he has developed.










"I'm not only a bin Laden. I am Yeslam bin Ladin. I have my own identity. It is my perfume, my creation. I was about to do it several years ago, but then I had to stop because of the events of September 11," he said.

"I expect people out of curiosity will try it, and they will find the smell out of this world."

Mr Bin Ladin also spoke of the problems he had suffered since the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington.

"Luckily, when you go out in public, nobody knows who you are. You walk the street like everybody."

But he added: "I've heard comments when I make reservations. If I am going to have lunch with somebody, the reservations would be in his name."

Mr Bin Ladin said they he had been investigated by the Swiss and US authorities after September 11, but no link to extremist activities was found.

He said bin Laden was more religious than the rest of the family.

"He was one of the very few who did not leave Saudi Arabia to study. I don't know him very well. I think I saw him before he left (for Afghanistan in the 1980s), and I haven't seen him since.

"The only memory is that he didn't want music on in the house. He wanted it off. It wasn't 'ethical'. I thought that was weird."

Mr Bin Ladin said he did not believe anyone in the family supported the al-Qaeda leader.

"What he has done hurts the family. Financially, if somebody wants to work with you, they think twice. I have been investigated for the past three years because of that. Should ever anybody help him, that person will be responsible for his actions."

Agence France-Presse

 

[GhostofJimJess]

This is one of the things that frankly gave me the creeps when the video from OBL surfaced on the weekend.

Osama Bin Laden criticizes Bush, Osama Bin Laden is evil.

Therefore, people like GJ (Am I the only one who thinks she's probably Jane Albrechtson?) try and go the next step, and anyone who criticizes George Bush = evil like Osama Bin Laden. It actually puts Kerry in a bit of an awkward position, because some of the simpler people out there will make that same connection.

Without leaping into the conspiracy theorist realm, is it reasonable to suggest that Osama Bin Laden is doing his damndest to get Bush reelected?

Lets assume that OBL wants to
a.) Not get captured so he can continue to attack western interests
b.) ferment hatred between the islamic and western world

then given that the Bush administration has demonstrated that it is completely incapable of capturing OBL and has done an absolutely excellent job of polarising opinion in the middle east in the way Bin Laden want, then wouldn't it be in his best interests to get Bush reelected?

It could be a rather similar situation to the end of WWII, when the allies explored the option of assassinating Hitler, and then decided that he was actually hastening the german defeat due to his idiocy, therefore they let him be.

Interesting angle, Mead.

There's no doubt in my mind that OBL would love to see Bush get re-elected ... it would continue to rationalise and justify in Bin laden's own twisted mind (and in his equally sadistic followers) his barbarousness in and out of the Middle East.

I personally really hope that Bush gets defeated in the US election for at least three reasons - it will give someone else a chance to remedy George Bush's errors, it will greatly weaken Osama Bin laden's standing amongst all of those nitwit followers of his, and will totally p**s off Andrew Bolt.

What a great day for the free world that would be.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Interesting angle, Mead.

There's no doubt in my mind that OBL would loveto see Bush get re-elected ... it would continue to rationalise and justify in Bin laden's own twisted mind (and in his equally sadistic followers) his barbarous in and out of the Middle East.

I personally really hope that Bush gets defeated in the US election for at least three reasons - it will give someone else achance to remedy George Bush's errors, it will greatly weaken Osama Bin laden's standing amongst all of those nitwit followers of his, and will totally p**s off Andrew Bolt.

What a great day for the free world that would be.

Bolt and Gerard Henderson on Suicide Watch, there's a sight for sore eyes .

I basically want Bush out for the same reasons, excellently put.

 

[Mr Q]

OBL has taken a deliberate decision to attempt to influence the US elections.

OBL took the "goat story" out of Moore's film - deliberately highlighting it - becos he thinks that will help increase the opp to W.

He did this becos OBL has total contempt for western democracy and sees the "left" as the weakest link and confirmation of our decadence. Just read some of his writings.

So you draw a line from this thinking (which I totally disagree with btw - I'd imagine OBL would just lurve another term for Bush to ******** up ME affairs a bit more), to an implication that Moore and OBL think alike? I mean we all know you hate Michael Moore, but that's just utter stupidity. Its kind of like the bollocks you used to peddle where everyone who opposed the war in Iraq was a Baathist sympathiser.

The Bush administration's antics have turned the global upsurge of support for America after Sep 11 (and I mean global, including counties like Germany and Russia) into a deeply divided world, where as time goes along America gets more and more isolated, and where even the countries that support American actions have populaces that show at best divided support for the war and that decreasing.

Bush diverted the War on Terror into a war in Iraq, and has now bogged down US resources so much that if AlQ do actually do something serious, they will be stuck trying to deal with that aftermath while still mounting a massive action in Iraq - or pull out of Iraq leaving it to its own devices and a slide into anarchy and rich pickings for the Islamic terrorist world.

There's not much that can be done to stop that now whoever wins tomorrow, but OBL would be hoping Bush wins so he can blunder even more.

 

[GuruJane]

Is THIS good enough for ya? As you can see it was written May 9, 2003. Im pretty sure Michael Moore's film wasnt out then. You are really clutching at straws with this one and you are well and truly wrong. Just give it up!

Not according to OBL's brother.

 

[GuruJane]

I have no idea what the reasoning is behind OBL's actions, but to connect them with Michael Moore is absurd, as everyone has pointed out. Perhaps it didn't suit what he wanted to communicate at the time of his other tapes.


Since when did you have a counduit into his mind anyway Jane?

Not according to his brother.

 

[GuruJane]

Well i'm a bit ********ed off to tell the truth.How come the most wanted man in the world has the DVD at his local blockbuster but they don't have it available at mine.

The "goat" sequence in F9/11 was the most famous in the Moore doco.

It was played ad nauseum on television networks across the world.

Reaction to it went on for days on this very board.

 

[GuruJane]

So you draw a line from this thinking (which I totally disagree with btw - I'd imagine OBL would just lurve another term for Bush to ******** up ME affairs a bit more), to an implication that Moore and OBL think alike? I mean we all know you hate Michael Moore, but that's just utter stupidity. Its kind of like the bollocks you used to peddle where everyone who opposed the war in Iraq was a Baathist sympathiser.

OBL is adopting Moore's position as a means of weakening western resolve. It's typical of the sophistication of AL Q's political strategies.

1. The Madrid bombing. Designed to get the Spanish out of the coalition. Succeeds.

2. The Jakarta Embassy bombing. Designed to influence the Australian elections. Does not succeed.

3. The spate of kidnapppings, pleading videos and beheadings, targeted at discrete nationalities. Designed to break up the coalition.

4. The prolonged Kenneth Bigley episode followed by the Care Aust woman. Designed to weaken the Blair government.

5. OBL appears on Al Jazeera, now mouthpiece arm of the Jihadists, and regurgitates Michael Moore when the US polls are showing a line ball election. Designed to tip the balance against Dubya. OBL does not care so much for Kerry to win (Al Q will continue the war regardless) as to weaken public resolve in US (and Britain) as happened in Spain.

Going back to my original point you are responding to:

OBL sees the left/anti war/anti US movement as confirming his belief that western democracy is decadent and can be defeated. In this regard he sees the movement as his unwitting ally and ruthlessly uses it. This is typical of fascist thinking.

Interestingly we can assume that OBL would have preferred to have had a major incident, rather than a TV appearance. So far none has eventuated. If it does not, would indicate that AlQ's field operations have been severely weakened.

 

[Contra Mundum]

OBL is adopting Moore's position as a means of weakening western resolve. It's typical of the sophistication of AL Q's political strategies.

1. The Madrid bombing. Designed to get the Spanish out of the coalition. Succeeds.

2. The Jakarta Embassy bombing. Designed to influence the Australian elections. Does not succeed.

3. The spate of kidnapppings, pleading videos and beheadings, targeted at discrete nationalities. Designed to break up the coalition.

4. The prolonged Kenneth Bigley episode followed by the Care Aust woman. Designed to weaken the Blair government.

5. OBL appears on Al Jazeera, now mouthpiece arm of the Jihadists, and regurgitates Michael Moore when the US polls are showing a line ball election. Designed to tip the balance against Dubya. OBL does not care so much for Kerry to win (Al Q will continue the war regardless) as to weaken public resolve in US (and Britain) as happened in Spain.

Going back to my original point you are responding to:

OBL sees the left/anti war/anti US movement as confirming his belief that western democracy is decadent and can be defeated. In this regard he sees the movement as his unwitting ally and ruthlessly uses it. This is typical of fascist thinking.

Interestingly we can assume that OBL would have preferred to have had a major incident, rather than a TV appearance. So far none has eventuated. If it does not, would indicate that AlQ's field operations have been severely weakened.

To call Al Jazeera "mouth piece of the Jihadists" is a bit rich the editors are mostly secular western Muslims - the reason they operate from Qatar is that they are too progressive for the Saudis. Jane you are scarey in your limited myopia for Gods sake look at the issues an analyse them rather than accepting the glib half truths you take as fact.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

Not according to his brother.

Ah Yes, the brother who's changed his name and wants nothing to do with him, who's SPECULATING over what he may be thinking/doing.

It seems that he might have seen the Michael Moore movie Fahrenheit 9/11."

See that Jane? Seems. Means he doesn't actually know where he really got the information, my bet is Al Quaida had teams of people who streamed over every skerrick of post-9/11 footage, looking for anything he could discredit Bush and the other leaders with.


Once again, you're a fool if you think OBL wants Kerry to win. Bush's blundering approach to US foreign policy gives OBL a brilliant avenue of Propaganda to gain and motivatehis supporters.

 

[Fulcrum]

why didnt 4000 zionist state citizens show up to work on s11???

http://slate.msn.com/id/116813/

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/israel.htm

 

[Dippers Donuts]

How anyone can seriously think the OBL tape will be anything less than a last minute fillip for Bush has no idea about US politics.

Wouldn't surprise me if Karl Rove was behind the whole thing.

As a senior GOP official was quoted as saying "anything that makes people nervous about their personal safety helps Bush".

 

[Dippers Donuts]

http://slate.msn.com/id/116813/

http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/israel.htm

Whilst I don't subscribe to the 4000 zionists theory I have just finished a fascinating little book written by a US professor about the the whole 9/11 thing. This guy is no conspiracy nut, he just took a measured, analytical approach to the entire events of 9/11; from the standing down of US fighter planes after the hijackings became known, to the dodgy jumbo into the pentagon.

After examining all the relevant, published evidence the only conclusion he could arrive at was that the uppermost levels of the the white house and the Pentagon almost certainly knew that 9/11 was going to happen and just let the attacks occur. He didn't say they were responsible for 911; they just did nothing to stop it. It was their Pearl Harbour as such.

It certainly warrants at the very least a comprehensive public enquiry (not the current whitewash).

 

[GuruJane]

Ah Yes, the brother who's changed his name and wants nothing to do with him, who's SPECULATING over what he may be thinking/doing.



See that Jane? Seems. Means he doesn't actually know where he really got the information, my bet is Al Quaida had teams of people who streamed over every skerrick of post-9/11 footage, looking for anything he could discredit Bush and the other leaders with.


Once again, you're a fool if you think OBL wants Kerry to win. Bush's blundering approach to US foreign policy gives OBL a brilliant avenue of Propaganda to gain and motivatehis supporters.

Well Freo, AlJ has released the transcript of the FULL tape, which for whatever reason it decided not to screen in full.

Probably becos it figured that the full videotape would incense Americans so much W would win in a landslide.

Here it is at:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm

And here are excerpts, which I've edited out - the stuff AlJ didn't screen.

".....It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced.

And it all shows that the real loser is ... you. EDIT.

And it's no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him: "All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction - assuming they exist - is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome."

But the darkness of the black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.

So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future. He fits the saying "like the naughty she-goat who used her hoof to dig up a knife from under the earth".

So I say to you, over 15,000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10,000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business.

Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons, also for money.
And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorise the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction.

Finally, it behoves you to reflect on the last wills and testaments of the thousands who left you on the 11th as they gestured in despair. They are important testaments, which should be studied and researched.

Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say: "How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision."

It is as if they were telling you, the people of America: "Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes."

And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry. "Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny."

As has been said: "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure."
And know that: "It is better to return to the truth than persist in error." And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House.

Singing from the Michael Moore hymnbook, indeed.

Or was Dan Warna his script writer?

Whatever, your fantasies that OBL is not looking to overthrow Bush are somewhat misplaced, n'est ce pas?

Any ideas why Al Jazeera didn't run this tape in full?

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Geez you can't see the wood for the trees jane.

To quote from CNN;

'Al-Jazeera executives said they decided to post the entire speech because rumors were circulating that the network omitted parts that "had direct threats toward specific states, which was totally untrue."

"We chose the most newsworthy parts of the address and aired them. The rest was used in lower thirds in graphics format," said one official."

Perfectly simple really - keep tilting at those windmills.

The rest of your post is just guff - see my earlier comment about the republicans and their reaction to the tape. They love what it will do for W.

 

[evo]

Whilst I don't subscribe to the 4000 zionists theory I have just finished a fascinating little book written by a US professor about the the whole 9/11 thing. This guy is no conspiracy nut, he just took a measured, analytical approach to the entire events of 9/11; from the standing down of US fighter planes after the hijackings became known, to the dodgy jumbo into the pentagon.

After examining all the relevant, published evidence the only conclusion he could arrive at was that the uppermost levels of the the white house and the Pentagon almost certainly knew that 9/11 was going to happen and just let the attacks occur. He didn't say they were responsible for 911; they just did nothing to stop it. It was their Pearl Harbour as such.

It certainly warrants at the very least a comprehensive public enquiry (not the current whitewash).

That would require a fairly large conspiracy by non Whitehouse people.Would you care to share the title of this book.I wouldn't mind having a read.

 

[GuruJane]

Geez you can't see the wood for the trees jane.

To quote from CNN;

'Al-Jazeera executives said they decided to post the entire speech because rumors were circulating that the network omitted parts that "had direct threats toward specific states, which was totally untrue."

"We chose the most newsworthy parts of the address and aired them. The rest was used in lower thirds in graphics format," said one official."

Perfectly simple really - keep tilting at those windmills.

The rest of your post is just guff - see my earlier comment about the republicans and their reaction to the tape. They love what it will do for W.

You don't think that OBL's long and pointed reference to the 9/11 victims was not "newsworthy" - given this is the first time he's admitted responsibility?? Let alone the references to oil and Haliburton? Let alone this is days before a US election?

And of course the Republicans love what this tape will do for W. That's obviously why AlJ did not screen the most inflammatory aspects. Isn't it? Am sure you know that perfectly well.

The point of my argument has been:

OBL sings from the M Moore hymnbook (denial from posters here)

and OBL's aim is to see Bush defeated (more denial from posters here and even claims that OBL wants W re-elected - even from Ghost!.).

Denials now blown out of the water by the publication of the full transcript.

I could now add:

OBL was singing not just from Moore, but also Dan Warna, CharlieG, JimBoy Mr Q, yourself , John Kerry's speech writers and all of you other luvvies who have been so enthusiastically swallowing OBL's agenda and peddling it here for months and years without the slightest idea that's what you're doing.

Ah well ... those armchairs gonna get a good working out with Howard in control of the Senate. Enjoy the fruits of your handiwork.

 

[Mr Q]

OBL was singing not just from Moore, but also Dan Warna, CharlieG, JimBoy Mr Q, yourself , John Kerry's speech writers and all of you other luvvies who have been so enthusiastically swallowing OBL's agenda and peddling it here for months and years without the slightest idea that's what you're doing.

There are none so blind as those who will not see - and Jane, you're as blind as a bat. You swallowed the neo-con rhetoric whole and refuse to even see where it might fall down.

In simple terms: it seems you don't have a clue.

 

[GuruJane]

There are none so blind as those who will not see - and Jane, you're as blind as a bat. You swallowed the neo-con rhetoric whole and refuse to even see where it might fall down.

In simple terms: it seems you don't have a clue.

And it seems you don't have an answer left, except for personal abuse.

Sigh. I defeat you again. It's getting boring, Mr Q.

 

[jim boy]

You don't think that OBL's long and pointed reference to the 9/11 victims was not "newsworthy" - given this is the first time he's admitted responsibility?? Let alone the references to oil and Haliburton? Let alone this is days before a US election?

And of course the Republicans love what this tape will do for W. That's obviously why AlJ did not screen the most inflammatory aspects. Isn't it? Am sure you know that perfectly well.

The point of my argument has been:

OBL sings from the M Moore hymnbook (denial from posters here)

and OBL's aim is to see Bush defeated (more denial from posters here and even claims that OBL wants W re-elected - even from Ghost!.).

Denials now blown out of the water by the publication of the full transcript.

I could now add:

OBL was singing not just from Moore, but also Dan Warna, CharlieG, JimBoy Mr Q, yourself , John Kerry's speech writers and all of you other luvvies who have been so enthusiastically swallowing OBL's agenda and peddling it here for months and years without the slightest idea that's what you're doing.

Ah well ... those armchairs gonna get a good working out with Howard in control of the Senate. Enjoy the fruits of your handiwork.

For godness sake, what an untelligible rant to try and prove some quite conspiratorial theory.

Grow up Jane, it's just another rant by Osama, maybe he did pop down to his local cinemaplax and watch a dubbed into arabic version of Fah 9/11? Maybe he was bored and wanted a laugh. So what??

It's drawing a very long bow indeed to say that Moore is guidance to OBL based upon a few 'selective' and translated quotes.

This was a rubbish topic from the start.