OBL sings from the Michael Moore hymnbook...

[GuruJane]

it's just another rant by Osama, maybe he did pop down to his local cinemaplax and watch a dubbed into arabic version of Fah 9/11? Maybe he was bored and wanted a laugh. So what??

Precisely. OBL parrotting the Moore F 9/11 rant

It's drawing a very long bow indeed to say that Moore is guidance to OBL based upon a few 'selective' and translated quotes.

Selective? Virtually the whole thing came off the Moore/ anti war diatribes.

When you lie down with dogs, Jim Boy .... well, you end up justifying anything, as we've seen.

This was a rubbish topic from the start.

I don't zeeenk zo. Thanks to AL J's tardiness in releasing the full transcript it's been a triumph. Luvvies sucked in, then demolished.

 

[CharlieG]

So I sing from the Michael Moore hymnbook, Jane?

Interesting... since I haven't even seen Fahrenheit 9/11.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

That would require a fairly large conspiracy by non Whitehouse people.Would you care to share the title of this book.I wouldn't mind having a read.

Certainly my good man, the book is called "The New Pearl Harbour: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11".
Written by Proff David Ray Griffin.

Not sure if it is available in Oz as I bought it overseas the other week.

He believes the evidence points to complicity between Bush, Rumsfeld and Joint Chief of Staff head Richard Myers.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

You don't think that OBL's long and pointed reference to the 9/11 victims was not "newsworthy" - given this is the first time he's admitted responsibility?? Let alone the references to oil and Haliburton? Let alone this is days before a US election?

And of course the Republicans love what this tape will do for W. That's obviously why AlJ did not screen the most inflammatory aspects. Isn't it? Am sure you know that perfectly well.

The point of my argument has been:

OBL sings from the M Moore hymnbook (denial from posters here)

and OBL's aim is to see Bush defeated (more denial from posters here and even claims that OBL wants W re-elected - even from Ghost!.).

Denials now blown out of the water by the publication of the full transcript.

I could now add:

OBL was singing not just from Moore, but also Dan Warna, CharlieG, JimBoy Mr Q, yourself , John Kerry's speech writers and all of you other luvvies who have been so enthusiastically swallowing OBL's agenda and peddling it here for months and years without the slightest idea that's what you're doing.

Ah well ... those armchairs gonna get a good working out with Howard in control of the Senate. Enjoy the fruits of your handiwork.

Jane, you just keep lobbing those fulltosses at us and the boys and girls here will happily (and easily) keep despatching them for 6.

Incidentally, this tape is OBL's first admission of 911 responsibility?? Where have you been for the last 3 years? With your head in the sand obviously.

As for references to oil and Haliburton? How is that newsworthy given it is old, old news.

And you're now saying that the yanks are influenced by Al Jezeera?? How many yanks do you reckon have ever heard of Al Jazeera. The minority that do dismiss it as propaganda. You are seriously deluded woman.

Where does Bin Laden say he wants Bush defeated? Be specific with quotes.

You're probably bored and post all this crap for fun, (a favourite ploy of yours is to associate as many posters on this board with one of your kooky ideas and wait by the pc until we respond. You might think you're clever but we're awake to your little games. That makes us smarter); but seriously...you got issues!!

 

[evo]

Cheers Dippers Donuts.It appears it isn't available in Oz as yet.Amazon has it though.

 

[teams]

That would require a fairly large conspiracy by non Whitehouse people.Would you care to share the title of this book.I wouldn't mind having a read.

The first public words that George uttered after the event contained the name Osama Bin Laden. At the time it seemed you wouldn't point an immediate finger unless you knew something concrete. Osama had been active in retribution in Africa but the immediate link always seems curious.

 

[SydneyBomber]

what a truly sad topic. 1/10

GJ - I often read your posts, and find many interesting (although I rarely agree with your point of view), but this one is pretty weak really.

Your numerous attempts to keep beating a dead horse (despite being well and truly owned from about the 1st page) do you no favours.

next please.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

The first public words that George uttered after the event contained the name Osama Bin Laden. At the time it seemed you wouldn't point an immediate finger unless you knew something concrete. Osama had been active in retribution in Africa but the immediate link always seems curious.

Not only that but as the book points out, Bush's schedule for 9/11 was published weeks in advance. It was no secret. The terrorists would have known he was going to be in that school. Wouldn't you think that with an unknown number of hijacked planes in the air the first thing you do is secure the president? Get him to a secure location somewhere? No, he stayed in that school for 25 minutes after word got to him about the attacks. Not only that he gave his speech to the nation in the location that was also previously published. No armed escort to the airport, no fighter planes escorting Air Force one when it finally took off.

And so on, there really are so many unanswered questions.

 

[demon_dave]

Interesting angle, Mead.

There's no doubt in my mind that OBL would love to see Bush get re-elected ... it would continue to rationalise and justify in Bin laden's own twisted mind (and in his equally sadistic followers) his barbarousness in and out of the Middle East.

I personally really hope that Bush gets defeated in the US election for at least three reasons - it will give someone else a chance to remedy George Bush's errors, it will greatly weaken Osama Bin laden's standing amongst all of those nitwit followers of his, and will totally p**s off Andrew Bolt.

What a great day for the free world that would be.

anything to ******** off Bolt

 

[jim boy]

Not only that but as the book points out, Bush's schedule for 9/11 was published weeks in advance. It was no secret. The terrorists would have known he was going to be in that school. Wouldn't you think that with an unknown number of hijacked planes in the air the first thing you do is secure the president? Get him to a secure location somewhere? No, he stayed in that school for 25 minutes after word got to him about the attacks. Not only that he gave his speech to the nation in the location that was also previously published. No armed escort to the airport, no fighter planes escorting Air Force one when it finally took off.

And so on, there really are so many unanswered questions.

Seriously DD, I hope you're taking the proverbial; because that argument is pure nonsense.

Why would they think the president would be immediate danger? The school and the surrounding area would have been checked out well in advance. The president's schedule is often publically published well in advance, despite the knowledge that this gives to would be assassins. So no difference there.

Why shift him to airforce one when that could have been a target?

Why would he need a military jet to accompany him? It was already clear that the perpertraitors of 9/11 were using rather clumsy airliners, not high tech war craft. And what military jets were around were required to potentially shoot down any other hijacked airliners.

And why, if it was a conspiracy, do it while he was readiing a childrens book, they could easily have timed it so that it didn't cause embarassment, such as timing it so that he was having breakfast with Howard at the time.


And what if he did react differently, say jump up and exclaim,"to the batcave"? No doubt there would be theories going around, saying he acted so decisively and quickly that it must have been a set up.

It's quite easy to believe that Bush, Rummy and co could have and should have done more. Appointing a cold war specialist as national security advisor was a bad mistake from the start. Also I have no doubt that Bush and co have seized the opportunity and milked it for all it's worth, otherwise it's likely Bush would be getting a schelacking right now, so bad has his presidentship been.

And maybe they were even willing to go down the USS Maddox path, but really, what you've presented is tosh.

 

[evo]

I was watching a SBS doco about Bush and Kerry this evenoing, and they showed a replay of Bushes reaction as he 1st hears the news while reading to the children.Having not seen that footage for a while my initial thought was that Bush probably tried to show no emotion and continued to read to the children for no other reason than to show that if he's the boss and is remaining calm then everyone else should remain calm.It'll be dealt with,don't panic.

Maybe I'm giving Dubya and his handlers at the time too much credit.

 

[mantis]

Maybe I'm giving Dubya and his handlers at the time too much credit.

Yes you are.

 

[Fire]

I was watching a SBS doco about Bush and Kerry this evenoing, and they showed a replay of Bushes reaction as he 1st hears the news while reading to the children.Having not seen that footage for a while my initial thought was that Bush probably tried to show no emotion and continued to read to the children for no other reason than to show that if he's the boss and is remaining calm then everyone else should remain calm.It'll be dealt with,don't panic.

Maybe I'm giving Dubya and his handlers at the time too much credit.

Lateral thinking, although total ignorance isn’t exactly reassuring.

 

[Borgsta]

Not according to OBL's brother.

Well considering what i said was that May 9, 2003 was before Michael Moores film, i dont think OBL's brother mentioned that at all. You are still clutching badly at straws by using Osama's brother considering he admits that he hasnt spoken to him for years. All that proves to me is that Yeslam has about as much idea as you, which in case you were wondering is none.

 

[Lestat]

Jane...why didn't you post the full script instead of your conveniently 'edited' post.

-------------


Full transcript of bin Ladin's speech


Monday 01 November 2004, 16:01 Makka Time, 13:01 GMT


Bin Ladin directed his message at the American people



Related:
Bin Ladin muscles into US election race
Bush, Kerry vow to defeat bin Ladin
Excerpts from Usama bin Ladin's speech
Bin Ladin: Reasons to attack remain

Bin Ladin tape


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Following is the full English transcript of Usama bin Ladin's speech in a videotape sent to Aljazeera. In the interests of authenticity, the content of the transcript, which appeared as subtitles at the foot of the screen, has been left unedited.


Praise be to Allah who created the creation for his worship and commanded them to be just and permitted the wronged one to retaliate against the oppressor in kind. To proceed:

Peace be upon he who follows the guidance: People of America this talk of mine is for you and concerns the ideal way to prevent another Manhattan, and deals with the war and its causes and results.

Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.

If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don't possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them.

No, we fight because we are free men who don't sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.

No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.

But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred.

So I shall talk to you about the story behind those events and shall tell you truthfully about the moments in which the decision was taken, for you to consider.

I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.

The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.

I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.

The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn't respond.

In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.

And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.

And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance.

This means the oppressing and embargoing to death of millions as Bush Sr did in Iraq in the greatest mass slaughter of children mankind has ever known, and it means the throwing of millions of pounds of bombs and explosives at millions of children - also in Iraq - as Bush Jr did, in order to remove an old agent and replace him with a new puppet to assist in the pilfering of Iraq's oil and other outrages.

So with these images and their like as their background, the events of September 11th came as a reply to those great wrongs, should a man be blamed for defending his sanctuary?

Is defending oneself and punishing the aggressor in kind, objectionable terrorism? If it is such, then it is unavoidable for us.

This is the message which I sought to communicate to you in word and deed, repeatedly, for years before September 11th.

And you can read this, if you wish, in my interview with Scott in Time Magazine in 1996, or with Peter Arnett on CNN in 1997, or my meeting with John Weiner in 1998.

You can observe it practically, if you wish, in Kenya and Tanzania and in Aden. And you can read it in my interview with Abdul Bari Atwan, as well as my interviews with Robert Fisk.

The latter is one of your compatriots and co-religionists and I consider him to be neutral. So are the pretenders of freedom at the White House and the channels controlled by them able to run an interview with him? So that he may relay to the American people what he has understood from us to be the reasons for our fight against you?

If you were to avoid these reasons, you will have taken the correct path that will lead America to the security that it was in before September 11th. This concerned the causes of the war.

As for it's results, they have been, by the grace of Allah, positive and enormous, and have, by all standards, exceeded all expectations. This is due to many factors, chief among them, that we have found it difficult to deal with the Bush administration in light of the resemblance it bears to the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half which are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents.

Our experience with them is lengthy, and both types are replete with those who are characterised by pride, arrogance, greed and misappropriation of wealth. This resemblance began after the visits of Bush Sr to the region.

At a time when some of our compatriots were dazzled by America and hoping that these visits would have an effect on our countries, all of a sudden he was affected by those monarchies and military regimes, and became envious of their remaining decades in their positions, to embezzle the public wealth of the nation without supervision or accounting.

So he took dictatorship and suppression of freedoms to his son and they named it the Patriot Act, under the pretence of fighting terrorism. In addition, Bush sanctioned the installing of sons as state governors, and didn't forget to import expertise in election fraud from the region's presidents to Florida to be made use of in moments of difficulty.

All that we have mentioned has made it easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses without their achieving for it anything of note other than some benefits for their private companies.

This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

All Praise is due to Allah.

So we are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah.

That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinises the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains.

Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results.

And so it has appeared to some analysts and diplomats that the White House and us are playing as one team towards the economic goals of the United States, even if the intentions differ.

And it was to these sorts of notions and their like that the British diplomat and others were referring in their lectures at the Royal Institute of International Affairs. [When they pointed out that] for example, al-Qaida spent $500,000 on the event, while America, in the incident and its aftermath, lost - according to the lowest estimate - more than $500 billion.

Meaning that every dollar of al-Qaida defeated a million dollars by the permission of Allah, besides the loss of a huge number of jobs.

As for the size of the economic deficit, it has reached record astronomical numbers estimated to total more than a trillion dollars.

And even more dangerous and bitter for America is that the mujahidin recently forced Bush to resort to emergency funds to continue the fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, which is evidence of the success of the bleed-until-bankruptcy plan - with Allah's permission.

It is true that this shows that al-Qaida has gained, but on the other hand, it shows that the Bush administration has also gained, something of which anyone who looks at the size of the contracts acquired by the shady Bush administration-linked mega-corporations, like Halliburton and its kind, will be convinced. And it all shows that the real loser is ... you.

It is the American people and their economy. And for the record, we had agreed with the Commander-General Muhammad Ataa, Allah have mercy on him, that all the operations should be carried out within 20 minutes, before Bush and his administration notice.

It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50,000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him.

But because it seemed to him that occupying himself by talking to the little girl about the goat and its butting was more important than occupying himself with the planes and their butting of the skyscrapers, we were given three times the period required to execute the operations - all praise is due to Allah.

And it's no secret to you that the thinkers and perceptive ones from among the Americans warned Bush before the war and told him: "All that you want for securing America and removing the weapons of mass destruction - assuming they exist - is available to you, and the nations of the world are with you in the inspections, and it is in the interest of America that it not be thrust into an unjustified war with an unknown outcome."

But the darkness of the black gold blurred his vision and insight, and he gave priority to private interests over the public interests of America.

So the war went ahead, the death toll rose, the American economy bled, and Bush became embroiled in the swamps of Iraq that threaten his future. He fits the saying "like the naughty she-goat who used her hoof to dig up a knife from under the earth".

So I say to you, over 15,000 of our people have been killed and tens of thousands injured, while more than a thousand of you have been killed and more than 10,000 injured. And Bush's hands are stained with the blood of all those killed from both sides, all for the sake of oil and keeping their private companies in business.

Be aware that it is the nation who punishes the weak man when he causes the killing of one of its citizens for money, while letting the powerful one get off, when he causes the killing of more than 1000 of its sons, also for money.

And the same goes for your allies in Palestine. They terrorise the women and children, and kill and capture the men as they lie sleeping with their families on the mattresses, that you may recall that for every action, there is a reaction.

Finally, it behoves you to reflect on the last wills and testaments of the thousands who left you on the 11th as they gestured in despair. They are important testaments, which should be studied and researched.

Among the most important of what I read in them was some prose in their gestures before the collapse, where they say: "How mistaken we were to have allowed the White House to implement its aggressive foreign policies against the weak without supervision."

It is as if they were telling you, the people of America: "Hold to account those who have caused us to be killed, and happy is he who learns from others' mistakes."

And among that which I read in their gestures is a verse of poetry. "Injustice chases its people, and how unhealthy the bed of tyranny."

As has been said: "An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure."

And know that: "It is better to return to the truth than persist in error." And that the wise man doesn't squander his security, wealth and children for the sake of the liar in the White House.

In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No.

Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security.

And Allah is our Guardian and Helper, while you have no Guardian or Helper. All peace be upon he who follows the Guidance.

 

[Borgsta]

Personally i think the talk of moving George Bush after hearing after the plane crash is quite stupid. I would think that a school would actually be a pretty safe place for the president to be as a school would be an incredibly hard target to hit with a plane.

 

[Mr Q]

And it seems you don't have an answer left, except for personal abuse.

Sigh. I defeat you again. It's getting boring, Mr Q.

If I told you wood came from trees you'd tell me I was wrong and that it meant I supported OBL. What's the point in making a coherent argument for your benefit (if I did, you'd most likely ignore it anyway). You made an exceptionally spurious argument, everyone pointed that out to you and you're continuing to argue. What can I say?

But for your benefit, I already pointed out why I am convinced OBL would not want Bush to lose earlier in this thread.

 

[GuruJane]

If I told you wood came from trees you'd tell me I was wrong and that it meant I supported OBL. What's the point in making a coherent argument for your benefit (if I did, you'd most likely ignore it anyway). You made an exceptionally spurious argument, everyone pointed that out to you and you're continuing to argue. What can I say?

But for your benefit, I already pointed out why I am convinced OBL would not want Bush to lose earlier in this thread.

Mr Q - I keep putting back reasoned arguments to you - in response to your arguments, and when you run out of replies you resort to PA.

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Personally i think the talk of moving George Bush after hearing after the plane crash is quite stupid. I would think that a school would actually be a pretty safe place for the president to be as a school would be an incredibly hard target to hit with a plane.

Well, if a jumbo 757 managed to punch a 20ft hole in one of the wings of the pentagon then you would think dropping a jumbo on a school would be a cinch wouldn't it?

 

[Dippers Donuts]

Seriously DD, I hope you're taking the proverbial; because that argument is pure nonsense.

No jim, not taking the proverbial. I'm not saying I buy this particular conspiracy (ie the white house/pentagon knew 911 was going to happen but for various reasons let it occur) but what I am saying after reading the book I mentioned earlier I am really intrigued by it all. I refuse to accept that anybody could be that evil and allow innocent civilians to die but the evidence does seem to point to sound kind of complicity.

Why would they think the president would be immediate danger? The school and the surrounding area would have been checked out well in advance. The president's schedule is often publically published well in advance, despite the knowledge that this gives to would be assassins. So no difference there.

My point is, at the time the president was in the school they wouldn't have known if he was in danger would they? At that stage there was an indeterminate amount of hijacked planes in the air, destinations unknown. Common sense alone would have suggested the president would have been moved to a secure location. The pentagon has the worlds most heavily fortified airspace yet the terrorists just cruised on in and slotted a jumbo into the side of it. A school would surely be a much easier target.

Why shift him to airforce one when that could have been a target?

Airforce one has all the bells and whistles when it comes to security. Bush would have been safer there than aywhere else, particularly with a couple of fighter jets as escorts.

Why would he need a military jet to accompany him? It was already clear that the perpertraitors of 9/11 were using rather clumsy airliners, not high tech war craft. And what military jets were around were required to potentially shoot down any other hijacked airliners.

Rather clumsy airliners which they managed to exquisitely propel into the pentagon and the world trade center with a skill that still baffles the experts. These terrorists had no training in takeoff or landing yet in the case of the pentagon, the 757 that hit it executed a superb corkscrew turn, dropped 7000 feet in 2 minutes and then skimmed at tree top level for another 1000 feet before hitting the pentagon. That takes real skill and years of training.

And why, if it was a conspiracy, do it while he was readiing a childrens book, they could easily have timed it so that it didn't cause embarassment, such as timing it so that he was having breakfast with Howard at the time.

Fair point, I don't know. Perhaps they did so for the very reason you mentioned.

And what if he did react differently, say jump up and exclaim,"to the batcave"? No doubt there would be theories going around, saying he acted so decisively and quickly that it must have been a set up.

Not sure about that. Couldn't he have excused himself politely and headed out a side door without raising a panic among the staff and students? How weren't they too know there wasn't a nuke on one of these planes? Surely he should have done something?

It's quite easy to believe that Bush, Rummy and co could have and should have done more. Appointing a cold war specialist as national security advisor was a bad mistake from the start. Also I have no doubt that Bush and co have seized the opportunity and milked it for all it's worth, otherwise it's likely Bush would be getting a schelacking right now, so bad has his presidentship been.

Don't disagree with all that.

And maybe they were even willing to go down the USS Maddox path, but really, what you've presented is tosh.

You're entitled to your opinion jimmy, all I'm saying is I would like to see a full public enquiry where all the facts and evidence are examined thoroughly. The victims of it all deserve no less.

 

[jim boy]

My point is, at the time the president was in the school they wouldn't have known if he was in danger would they? At that stage there was an indeterminate amount of hijacked planes in the air, destinations unknown. Common sense alone would have suggested the president would have been moved to a secure location. The pentagon has the worlds most heavily fortified airspace yet the terrorists just cruised on in and slotted a jumbo into the side of it. A school would surely be a much easier target.

Airforce one has all the bells and whistles when it comes to security. Bush would have been safer there than aywhere else, particularly with a couple of fighter jets as escorts.

It's pretty easy to make these judgements with three years of reflection, but at that time, at that instant, a school would still look pretty safe. The targets were all big and easily identifiable, Bush was out in the midle of god-knows-where. Also considering the US don't have the power to teleport yet, then serious consideration would have been needed in deciding how to transport Bush back to Air Force 1. Maybe some fear was given to a roadside bomb or missile launcher. Caution is the better part of valour. But really the most likely reason why he stayed where he did was that he had no idea what to do.

Rather clumsy airliners which they managed to exquisitely propel into the pentagon and the world trade center with a skill that still baffles the experts. These terrorists had no training in takeoff or landing yet in the case of the pentagon, the 757 that hit it executed a superb corkscrew turn, dropped 7000 feet in 2 minutes and then skimmed at tree top level for another 1000 feet before hitting the pentagon. That takes real skill and years of training.

Well they did go to flight school and they didn't exactly take off or land the planes terribly well did they? It can't be that hard, I've watched Airport '77! The only craft I've ever flown is a glider and just going by that very limited experience, steering a plane in flight and in good conditions has got to be the easiest part to flying. Anyway they didn't do that well, alledgedly the plane that hit the Pentagon was actually meant to hit the whitehouse, only the pilots couldn't find it so they went for one of the biggest buildings on earth!. And if you still think that explains their skill levels, that simply means they got more experience flying elsewhere, it doesn't mean they underytook a US funded airforce pilots course.

Not sure about that. Couldn't he have excused himself politely and headed out a side door without raising a panic among the staff and students? How weren't they too know there wasn't a nuke on one of these planes? Surely he should have done something?

We are talking Bush here, he hasn't exactly got the record for always taking the most sensible option.

You're entitled to your opinion jimmy, all I'm saying is I would like to see a full public enquiry where all the facts and evidence are examined thoroughly. The victims of it all deserve no less.

Public enquiries shouldn't be for idle speculation. If the only evidence is what you've presented in this thread, then a public enquiry is most certainly a waste of resources.

 

[demon_dave]

geez, this shyte was 3 years ago, give it a break, Bush has proven about 100 times since then what an imbecile he is, that was just one case. Bush doesn't breath unless told to do so by his men because they know he's a dropkick.