Mega Thread Official 2012 Draft discussion thread: All drafts complete.

[ThePuppetMaster]

And we'll probably get him at 3, doesn't bother me - but we may as well try to get him later!

You're right, we won't make 'agreements'; that goes against Neeld's mantra of 'high performance with high integrity'.

I don't see a problem with trying to muddy the waters for the clubs bidding though.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

And we'll probably get him at 3, doesn't bother me - but we may as well try to get him later!

I actually hope the club makes no move - why go to GC and try to make agreements and show how desperate you are to land him in the second round? If I was GC I'd say no thanks and then nominate him. I hope the club just leaves it and banks on the fact that GC are far too keen on someone like Toumpas to bother bidding for Viney.

 

[Eth]

I actually hope the club makes no move - why go to GC and try to make agreements and show how desperate you are to land him in the second round? If I was GC I'd say no thanks and then nominate him. I hope the club just leaves it and banks on the fact that GC are far too keen on someone like Toumpas to bother bidding for Viney.

On that; if anything, that'd ensure a GC bid if it fell through as they'd know that they could bid with no risk.

The chance that they wouldn't bid with pick 2 would disappear...

 

[00Stinger]

This is a conditional 'don't bid on Viney and we'll give you pick three' agreement. And, as it's prior to the trade period, it can be nothing more than a handshake. Which, as I've pointed out, is illegal.

I shouldn't have to define draft tampering to tell you that 'most likely won't happen' is one of the bigger stretches I've seen on this forum...

Didn't Melbourne and Carlton have a handshake agreement with McLean before the trade period a few years back?

How is this any different?

 

[CowboyFromHell]

On that; if anything, that'd ensure a GC bid if it fell through as they'd know that they could bid with no risk.

The chance that they wouldn't bid with pick 2 would disappear...

True. I just think the risk is too great and, even if we have to take Viney at Pick 3 (which I'm more than happy with) we will still be in the box seat to take the next best player in the land at Pick 4 and then land another very good player at Pick 13. We win regardless.

 

[Blackas87]

This is a conditional 'don't bid on Viney and we'll give you pick three' agreement. And, as it's prior to the trade period, it can be nothing more than a handshake. Which, as I've pointed out, is illegal.

I shouldn't have to define draft tampering to tell you that 'most likely won't happen' is one of the bigger stretches I've seen on this forum...

It's a trade agreement of pick 3 for mini draft selection 1, nothing to do with Viney.

 

[Eth]

Didn't Melbourne and Carlton have a handshake agreement with McLean before the trade period a few years back?

How is this any different?

Unconditional versus conditional.

That one was 'we'll give you pick 11 for McLean'. No stipulations on the side.

This one is 'we'll give you pick 3 for the mini-draft pick' with the stipulation that they don't bid on Viney. Which falls under tampering.

True. I just think the risk is too great and, even if we have to take Viney at Pick 3 (which I'm more than happy with) we will still be in the box seat to take the next best player in the land at Pick 4 and then land another very good player at Pick 13. We win regardless.

This is the thing that annoys me, actually...that next best player is likely to be Brodie Grundy.

Do we go with Grundy while having plenty of rucks and a few forwards developing, or do we go with Macrae (who I reckon really is closing in as a top 5 pick, FWIW) who's of a lower quality (albeit only slightly lower) but suits needs more so?

 

[CowboyFromHell]

This is the thing that annoys me, actually...that next best player is likely to be Brodie Grundy.

Do we go with Grundy while having plenty of rucks and a few forwards developing, or do we go with Macrae (who I reckon really is closing in as a top 5 pick, FWIW) who's of a lower quality (albeit only slightly lower) but suits needs more so?

Macrae for me. I should have written "next best player that suits us" rather than in the land. I'm not sold on Grundy and I think we have enough talls on the list at the moment - not saying they are of the same quality but they aren't bad. I think we have more pressing needs.

Then I'd love to see the club pass on Stringer at Pick 13 if he is there just to piss everybody here off. Some of us just like to see the world burn...

 

[Eth]

It's a trade agreement of pick 3 for mini draft selection 1, nothing to do with Viney.

If it has absolutely zero relevance to Viney and his name isn't mentioned - and if GC don't bid - then that's okay.

Regardless, I don't think pick three's worth it for Hogan. Maybe Martin, if he shows exponential improvement on this year, somewhat.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Jack Martin scares the shit out of me... I look at him, look at what he does and have these flashbacks of Cale Morton as a junior...

 

[Blackas87]

If it has absolutely zero relevance to Viney and his name isn't mentioned - and if GC don't bid - then that's okay.

Regardless, I don't think pick three's worth it for Hogan. Maybe Martin, if he shows exponential improvement on this year, somewhat.

I don't think either of them are worth pick 3 when there are players like Toumpas, O'rouke and Grundy will be there, but I would rather get Martin or Hogan with pick 3 and Viney at 26 then just get Viney at 3. Like I said earlier I hope GWS and GC don't bid on him with us not making a trade and we pick up 2 guns at picks 3 and 4 and get Viney at 26

 

[00Stinger]

Unconditional versus conditional.

That one was 'we'll give you pick 11 for McLean'. No stipulations on the side.

This one is 'we'll give you pick 3 for the mini-draft pick' with the stipulation that they don't bid on Viney. Which falls under tampering.

Why? No mention has to be made about Viney in the discussions. Just simply put, we will offer pick 3 for a mini-draft selection.

i really can't see how this would be considered draft tampering. I would consider draft tampering if we told a 16 year old kid to quit his TAC side and play local footy, hence trying to hide him from the rest of the comp.

 

[Eth]

Why? No mention has to be made about Viney in the discussions. Just simply put, we will offer pick 3 for a mini-draft selection.

i really can't see how this would be considered draft tampering. I would consider draft tampering if we told a 16 year old kid to quit his TAC side and play local footy, hence trying to hide him from the rest of the comp.

As CFH put it, a lot comes down to semantics. Even without the mention of Viney, we could get away with it, but who knows, the AFL may very well interpret that as detracting a potential bid for pick 3 from the Viney process. Which it's essentially doing, even if it's not the intention.

I doubt we'd use pick 3 on the mini-draft anyway.

 

[00Stinger]

As CFH put it, a lot comes down to semantics. Even without the mention of Viney, we could get away with it, but who knows, the AFL may very well interpret that as detracting a potential bid for pick 3 from the Viney process. Which it's essentially doing, even if it's not the intention.

I doubt we'd use pick 3 on the mini-draft anyway.

Using any of our picks on players from the mini-draft seems like a stupid idea to me. Granted I don't watch any TAC cup and I doubt everyone on here watches as much as they claim to, unless they drive around the state catching 2-3 games of TAC every week. However we have an abudance of youth and I am not willing to write their talent off just yet, they just need some strong, quality older players to help lead the way. So I don't know why we would go out and get rid of top draft picks in a supposedly superdraft for kids who can't play for 12 months, with the possibility they may not be ready for AFL senior footy for 18-24 months.

 

[Eth]

Using any of our picks on players from the mini-draft seems like a stupid idea to me. Granted I don't watch any TAC cup and I doubt everyone on here watches as much as they claim to, unless they drive around the state catching 2-3 games of TAC every week. However we have an abudance of youth and I am not willing to write their talent off just yet, they just need some strong, quality older players to help lead the way. So I don't know why we would go out and get rid of top draft picks in a supposedly superdraft for kids who can't play for 12 months, with the possibility they may not be ready for AFL senior footy for 18-24 months.

Agreed. Have said I'd rather a Macrae who can play in 2013 than a Martin in 2014-15 or a Hogan even later than that.

Congrats on 4,000 posts, by the way.

 

[00Stinger]

Agreed. Have said I'd rather a Macrae who can play in 2013 than a Martin in 2014-15 or a Hogan even later than that.

Congrats on 4,000 posts, by the way.

4,001 lol

I didn't even realise that was my 4,000th post. 3,500 of them have been made from work

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I think the best thing that can happen is that over the course of the next few days Tippett announces that he is leaving Adelaide and wants to go back to the Gold Coast. The Suns will be jumping for joy and will not nominate Viney as they will see their second pick as something the Crows will want in trade discussions. GWS won't nominate him, the three days of nominating F/S selections goes fof without a hitch and Viney slips through to the second round. Farking sorted.

 

[Devastating Boris]

Question to those more in the know than I. If they weren't already picked up, where would O'Meara and couch be going in this draft? Just for my own curiosity? Is that too hard to answer?

 

[Eth]

Question to those more in the know than I. If they weren't already picked up, where would O'Meara and couch be going in this draft? Just for my own curiosity? Is that too hard to answer?

O'Meara would fight it out with Whitfield for number one.

Crouch would probably go top five to ten - very much like Viney.

 

[deeman87]

JFC 2 pages of more draft tampering talk. You guys realise there is no way GWS nominates Viney so all that talk of trading pick 3 for mini draft picks means nothing. Either GC bid or we get him in the second round.

 

[Andy_Mac]

I think the best thing that can happen is that over the course of the next few days Tippett announces that he is leaving Adelaide and wants to go back to the Gold Coast. The Suns will be jumping for joy and will not nominate Viney as they will see their second pick as something the Crows will want in trade discussions. GWS won't nominate him, the three days of nominating F/S selections goes fof without a hitch and Viney slips through to the second round. Farking sorted.

If this happened you would have to think that the crows would use P2 on Grundy as a replacement for Tippett leaving Toumpas to us, which would mean we are very likely to put P4 on the table for Hogan.

Toumpas, Hogan, Viney and one of Wines, Garlett, Kennedy, Stringer etc would not be the worst possible result.

 

[Eth]

If this happened you would have to think that the crows would use P2 on Grundy as a replacement for Tippett leaving Toumpas to us, which would mean we are very likely to put P4 on the table for Hogan.

Toumpas, Hogan, Viney and one of Wines, Garlett, Kennedy, Stringer etc would not be the worst possible result.

Do we want Hogan though, given that he's not even the best key forward of his year and we have a few still promising?

Turn that into Toumpas, Macrae, Viney and one of Wines/Garlett/Kennedy/Stringer...it's four midfielders but I think it's what we need to address right now.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

If this happened you would have to think that the crows would use P2 on Grundy as a replacement for Tippett leaving Toumpas to us, which would mean we are very likely to put P4 on the table for Hogan.

Toumpas, Hogan, Viney and one of Wines, Garlett, Kennedy, Stringer etc would not be the worst possible result.

You would think that they go that way although nothing is certain. They might really like Toumpas, who is an SA boy, and go with him anyway. Still means that if Tippett does decide he wants to go home that we are more of a chance of getting Viney in the second round which is a big win for the club.

 

[deeman87]

AFL Rumours ‏@AFLRumoursLooking more than likely GC will nominate for the services of Jack Viney. Forcing the #Dees to use pick 3 for the Father son gun. #aflgf

 

[Andy_Mac]

Do we want Hogan though, given that he's not even the best key forward of his year and we have a few still promising?

Turn that into Toumpas, Macrae, Viney and one of Wines/Garlett/Kennedy/Stringer...it's four midfielders but I think it's what we need to address right now.

He's not, but we won't get near Boyd next year and somebody will take Hogan this year as a MD pick. So if Neeld wants another big aggressive KPF then Hogans our man. I'm not wrapped either as we need Mids, but with another top 5 pick next year we can take another top mid then.