Oh yeah.............................

[vealesy]

I bet Stalin and Hitler jay walked.

I bet they never had to drive down flinders st alongside pretentious inner city hipsters who think roads are for walking.

 

[the_interloper]

I get sick of people in shopping centre car parks treating the whole car park like a zebra crossing. This old couple just walked straight out in front of me the other week, about the 4th time in 5 minutes. Exasperated, I waited for them to get right near my bonnet and tooted, scared the shit out of them ha ha!

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I get sick of people in shopping centre car parks treating the whole car park like a zebra crossing. This old couple just walked straight out in front of me the other week, about the 4th time in 5 minutes. Exasperated, I waited for them to get right near my bonnet and tooted, scared the shit out of them ha ha!

Pedestrians have right of way in a car park, not aggressive motorists.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

If they can access a database quickly to see if you are a concession card holder then I'd agree it's unfair - but can they? Given the issues with Myki thus far I wouldn't be confident in its accuracy. I'd completely agree it's excessive, but not unreasonable if the ability to check quickly doesn't actually exist.


I'll simply say that some fines are reasonable, some are not.

Any curbing on the freedom of protest I am completely against, as with any fine for leaving your car door unlocked for example.

A comparitively small fine for not jaywalking at a busy intersection where I have personally seen a number of people hit (and I still don't know how one woman survived - it happened on Friday and I thought she was dead, yet there was no news report about it over the weekend) I don't have an issue with, especially considering if you don't notice a police officer should you be trusted to walk across a road through traffic?
I don't see the sense in holding a firm ideological stance either way - each instance on its merits.

They can, or used to when they issued photo ID transport concession cards. Still fined you then.

I agree re the busy intersection, I don't J-walk because it's dangerous. However, they do hand out fines for innocuous J-walking in the city, the kind which happens probably millions of times per day.

 

[Starburns_]

People, including you break that silly law every single day. I am as law abiding and safety first as they come, trickle down effect of spending a lot of time in a lab, yet even I probably inadvertently J-walk.

The 200$ fine is completely wrong, it serves no purpose at all. None. Just another sly revenue stream.

I break the jaywalking law because I honestly don't care for it in many instances, but as I've said, the fines are easily avoided both by paying attention, and by not doing it at all. If I get fined for it I'm not about to throw the toys out of the pram.

As for the $200 fine for the concession cards, I wonder how much more inefficient (and expensive) a system where names are checked would be than the current one, considering that most checks of tickets and cards takes an inspector roughly 5 seconds, add additional ID/questioning, then a search to verify, factor in possible flaws with the system, and it starts to become more trouble than it's worth.

It's easier to just stick a large deterrent fine up and encourage people to take responsibility for themselves and be prepared.

what's with all the abuse? Abuse isn't tolerated on bf.

Someone is still mad about their own ban.

Should I report you?

It's the truth Fyfie, which is why it winds you up so bad. Cattle in the cattle pen. If you feel you need to managed your whole life and fined within an inch of it for every small transgression, then you are little better than a farm animal.

I felt your post didn't deserve much better. That said, apologies for the language used, though I stand by the sentiment.

You're making assumptions based on the fact that I have no sympathy for people being fined for being stupid or careless. I have a legitimate gripe with the protester fines mentioned by Nicky above, but I'm not about to get worked up over such trivial, avoidable things like jaywalking and concession cards, those are within an acceptable realm of self-control and responsibility, "don't protest" is not.

 

[Quivorir]

I think less of people who chuck a hissy fit when someone doesn't agree with them, not when someone can pose a legitimate argument.

BTW, what round do we play NM again?

Not sure how its relevant. But round 11 at 5:40 PM W.A time. I will be there to watch our win.

 

[Mofra]

They can, or used to when they issued photo ID transport concession cards. Still fined you then.

You'd hope there's a time when Myki is actually working properly and they can check against a central database so the concession card wont be needed - I wont be holding my breath.

I agree re the busy intersection, I don't J-walk because it's dangerous. However, they do hand out fines for innocuous J-walking in the city, the kind which happens probably millions of times per day.

I honestly have not seen Police fine people for Jaywalking unless it's blatently obvious, ie an obvious sting with multiple uniformed police officers at an intersection or some crossing with traffic nearby directly near a police officer.

"Observance tax"

 

[Starburns_]

I honestly have not seen Police fine people for Jaywalking unless it's blatently obvious, ie an obvious sting with multiple uniformed police officers at an intersection or some crossing with traffic nearby directly near a police officer.

"Observance tax"

So much this. They only seem to be placed at busy intersections where there is a risk of danger too, Flinders and Elizabeth, Flinders and Swanston, Swanston and LaTrobe. They don't park themselves on Flinders La to catch the people ducking across a few metres of one way traffic.

 

[Gough]

I don't see the sense in holding a firm ideological stance either way - each instance on its merits.

I'm intrigued by the concept of having an ideological stand on j walking, how would a Marxist differ on the subject to a Friedmanite, or a Jungian? I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Papa Juggs]

People will be required to be registered with the state to Jaywalk.

Anybody that does so without a license will be sentenced to death.

 

[Mofra]

I'm intrigued by the concept of having an ideological stand on j walking, how would a Marxist differ on the subject to a Friedmanite, or a Jungian? I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Ideological stance as in every fine is a revenue raising impost on personal freedoms, but your post is too much of a teaser to let go without an attempt.

At a vague guess, Marx would simply marvel at the idea of traffic lights as man's power over nature and laud the ability to subjugate the natural environment.
Friedman (Edit: I meant Freud) would draw some parrallel between the phallic shape of traffic light poles and our desire to escape from the drearyness of social norms in the face of said phallus.
Jung would praise the "collective subconscious" that allows many people to jaywalk with comparatively few getting hit.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

Marks and Fremantle (esp. inside f50)? I call bullshit.

 

[Gough]

Ideological stance as in every fine is a revenue raising impost on personal freedoms, but your post is too much of a teaser to let go without an attempt.

At a vague guess, Marx would simply marvel at the idea of traffic lights as man's power over nature and laud the ability to subjugate the natural environment.
Friedman would draw some parrallel between the phallic shape of traffic light poles and our desire to escape from the drearyness of social norms in the face of said phallus.
Jung would praise the "collective subconscious" that allows many people to jaywalk with comparatively few getting hit.

Friedman would have said that the imposition of crossing lights was an infrigement on your rights.

 

[Mofra]

Friedman would have said that the imposition of crossing lights was an infrigement on your rights.

You're correct, I wrote Friedman but was writing for Freud (whoopsies).

If we're talking economists, Keynes would no doubt suggest the traffic lights should be funded by government as a public good and expouse the benefits installation of lights have on employment, Friedman would want the lights to be paid for by a private contractor who then reserves the right to toll people to utlise those servcies.

 

[Colin D'Cops]

Who's the fraud?

I'll leave now

 

[Gough]

You're correct, I wrote Friedman but was writing for Freud (whoopsies).

A Freudian conundrum in itself.

 

[Mofra]

A Freudian conundrum in itself.

Yes, a really obvious Freudian blow job that one.... shit. Slip. I meant Freudian slip. I said one thing but mean a mother.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

I break the jaywalking law because I honestly don't care for it in many instances, but as I've said, the fines are easily avoided both by paying attention, and by not doing it at all. If I get fined for it I'm not about to throw the toys out of the pram.

As for the $200 fine for the concession cards, I wonder how much more inefficient (and expensive) a system where names are checked would be than the current one, considering that most checks of tickets and cards takes an inspector roughly 5 seconds, add additional ID/questioning, then a search to verify, factor in possible flaws with the system, and it starts to become more trouble than it's worth.

It's easier to just stick a large deterrent fine up and encourage people to take responsibility for themselves and be prepared.

It is automatic. Both WA and Melbourne have the same hardware and software backbone, the difference is in the readers and implementation.

How they could get it so right, for a fraction of the price has me stumped. So no, fines are not more efficient, they are a deliberate vehicle for earning revenue.

I also stand by the sentiments expressed in my post, especially as they apply to you.

 

[the_interloper]

Pedestrians have right of way in a car park, not aggressive motorists.

Have you got a law which indicates that? If so why would you have pedestrian crossings in car parks, wouldn't be needed if what you say is right.

 

[DivideandMultiply]

Have you got a law which indicates that? If so why would you have pedestrian crossings in car parks, wouldn't be needed if what you say is right.

http://www.victoriawalks.org.au/walking_law/

When entering, exiting or turning in a carpark. At the crossings or just in general. Shopping centre car parks are designated shared zones.

 

[Starburns_]

It is automatic. Both WA and Melbourne have the same hardware and software backbone, the difference is in the readers and implementation.

How they could get it so right, for a fraction of the price has me stumped. So no, fines are not more efficient, they are a deliberate vehicle for earning revenue.

Sounds like you're just describing further incompetence on the part of those who implemented Myki. Obviously we would have been better off with an exact replica of what you described in WA, but for whatever reason it's not what we have.

But that argument shifts the debate from where it began anyway, it still doesn't change the fact that it's careless to forget a concession card under the current system. I used a concession ticket for over a decade and was never in a position where I didn't have it on my person whilst travelling, the entire effort it took was placing it in my wallet once a year when I got a new one.

WA has a far more convenient system, that doesn't mean this one requires people to jump through hoops to comply. It's hard to be sympathetic when it's so simple to avoid, in fact, it's even easier than scanning a busy CBD intersection for police before jaywalking.

Curious as to your thoughts on these fines, pre-Myki?

I also stand by the sentiments expressed in my post, especially as they apply to you.

Well then you would be wrong. But at least you got that "like" from Nicky, quality white-knighting on your part.

 

[nicky]

Don't try and scare people from siding with me by calling anyone who does a white knight..

Classic campaigner act.

 

[Starburns_]

Don't try and scare people from siding with me by calling anyone who does a white knight..

Classic Syd act.

That would almost be as bad as suggesting this thread was only for people who agree with you...

 

[peternorth]

is jaywalking an act of defiance against an overzealous government?

 

[Gough]

is jaywalking an act of defiance against an overzealous government?

I guess it could be seen as an of defiance, it would depend on the context and that person's idological view vis a vis j walking.