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Omac

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CWaffles said:
Lets play him forward and if he is useless there than he can spend the rest of his career in the VFL
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He'd kick too many goals if we played him forward. It would ruin the AFL as a competition for the next decade.
 
Topkent said:
I get that I hate him more than most but what do people see as his ceiling? Even full of confidence I saw him as average at best. To play forward or back now you need to be an elite athlete or an amazing reader of play. I don't see either in him.
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Probably closer to an elite athlete than an amazing reader. But I don’t really agree with your ultimatum there anyway. I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling and certainly hope we haven’t, but I don’t have much of an idea of what it might be. I don’t think it’s particularly high, but I don’t think he’s a lost cause either.

All that aside, he’s been trash this year, absolute gutter trash.
 
stretcharmstrong said:
Probably closer to an elite athlete than an amazing reader. But I don’t really agree with your ultimatum there anyway. I don’t think we’ve seen his ceiling and certainly hope we haven’t, but I don’t have much of an idea of what it might be. I don’t think it’s particularly high, but I don’t think he’s a lost cause either.

All that aside, he’s been trash this year, absolute gutter trash.
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Right but with Petracca when people say 'one day' you can understand because he has got a good vertical jump, strong for his size, good vision with his kicks etc.

No one has actually answered what he does well, what part of Oscar McDonald as a key defender is better than other average standard AFL defender.
 

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Topkent said:
...what part of Oscar McDonald as a key defender is better than other average standard AFL defender.
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I don’t know, but you may’ve just identified his ceiling!

And that’s okay, right? Every team needs some average standard AFL players on every line, kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.
 
Some of you people are so dramatic. McDonald is contracted until the end of next season, but he's in shit form so lets give him a few more games in an unfamiliar position and then have him "play out his career in the VFL". I know this is only one example, and a particularly stupid one at that, but it does my ****ing head in. He was a solid member of our side last season, and was actually good at points. We're one month into this season. Even if we don't make finals, Oscar has 40 weeks of footy in his contract. Why the **** does everything have to be so bloody final. It's the same as saying "if we lose this weekend, its season over". No it's not, campaigners. If we lose this weekend, we go 1-4, which is a bad place to be but certainly not season over. All it takes is a run of good form and we're still as good a chance as any going into the final few rounds of the year. From there, we can cause damage in the bottom half of the eight. Not everything needs to be line in the sand. Send Oscar to the VFL because he's playing like shit, and bring him back if/when he finds form and only if/when we need him in the team.
 
Topkent said:
Right but with Petracca when people say 'one day' you can understand because he has got a good vertical jump, strong for his size, good vision with his kicks etc.

No one has actually answered what he does well, what part of Oscar McDonald as a key defender is better than other average standard AFL defender.
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Okay. For the third or fourth time, here goes:
1. He’s quick for his size;
2. He’s got good foot skills for a key defender;
3. He’svery courageous and never squibs a contest;
4. He plays his role, low key and no fuss but effective.

I know you don’t rate him TK, that’s fine, but these are his strengths IMO. People are throwing him into the waste basket after the weekend but he was concussed. How effective would you be at your job with a concussion?
 
Tempy Tiger said:
Okay. For the third or fourth time, here goes:
1. He’s quick for his size;
2. He’s got good foot skills for a key defender;
3. He’svery courageous and never squibs a contest;
4. He plays his role, low key and no fuss but effective.

I know you don’t rate him TK, that’s fine, but these are his strengths IMO. People are throwing him into the waste basket after the weekend but he was concussed. How effective would you be at your job with a concussion?
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I've heard your opinions. I'm asking anyone else if they agree with you. Concussion happened after a rubbish first half and rubbish start to the season. Don't use excuses

Dylan Grimes last quarter against the power, when was the last time we had a key defender play a quarter like that?
Oscar and Frost haven't. I'd imagine it was Frawley in his AA season.
 
stretcharmstrong said:
I don’t know, but you may’ve just identified his ceiling!

And that’s okay, right? Every team needs some average standard AFL players on every line, kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.
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Which good teams set up with an average stopper as their 3rd defender?
You either have to take the best forward, be an intercepter or be a rebounder.
Neither of our current key defenders do both. I can't see either of them being here in 2 years.
 
Not saying we have to delist him but there is no way he should currently be playing in the seniors. Go back & find some form at Casey. If we give Petty or Keilty a go in the meantime you never know we might end up unearthing a better player.
 
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Omac when he is in form is good at
Topkent said:
Right but with Petracca when people say 'one day' you can understand because he has got a good vertical jump, strong for his size, good vision with his kicks etc.

No one has actually answered what he does well, what part of Oscar McDonald as a key defender is better than other average standard AFL defender.
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When he is in form, I think he has great disposal and decision making for a back, I also think he is good at getting to the majority of contests for a spoil (would prefer him to contested mark more) but I think those are strengths. I know why everyone is rubbishing him off the back of the last performance but really our whole team has sucked for 4 matches bar about 3 quarters.
 
DeesFanTheMan said:
Check out this Topkent I searched Omac and filtered by:

Disposal
Disposal efficiency

All Defensive categories.

Last year he was good, his career averages were good, he is definitely having a down start to the season.

https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover/CD_I992472/McDonald-Oscar

Would be interesting to compare those stats to some other kpd
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His disposal efficiency ranks him at the same percentage as Frawley, Rowe and Keefe but efficiency really tells you nothing if it's all kicks backwards and around.

For intercept marks he's ranked as the 50th defender. I just think that's way to low for your number 1 key defender
 

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Topkent said:
His disposal efficiency ranks him at the same percentage as Frawley, Rowe and Keefe but efficiency really tells you nothing if it's all kicks backwards and around.

For intercept marks he's ranked as the 50th defender. I just think that's way to low for your number 1 key defender
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Omac's role is not intercept defender though, compare his stats on that site vs Talia, Hurley, Frawley, May, Scott Thompson, Rance etc. Efficiency is what it is, if he is kicking back effectively it allows the team to switch, my memories of last year was him going short to the pocket or long to the contest down the wing though. As long as players are hitting targets then that is a positive reflection of something he is good at (I feel you can't argue against this point especially since you posted earlier today regarding woeful skills haha).
 
DeesFanTheMan said:
Omac's role is not intercept defender though, compare his stats on that site vs Talia, Hurley, Frawley, May, Scott Thompson, Rance etc. Efficiency is what it is, if he is kicking back effectively it allows the team to switch, my memories of last year was him going short to the pocket or long to the contest down the wing though. As long as players are hitting targets then that is a positive reflection of something he is good at (I feel you can't argue against this point especially since you posted earlier today regarding woeful skills haha).
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Yeah I dunno the career stats and stuff are hard to compare to be fair. Alot of what I dont like about him is hard to quantify in stats, like for Instance he chooses to spoil far too often for my liking and the spoils aren't with authority, they are crumbed by the oppo easily. Not really a stat for that.

The intercept marking this year though, 1 for the season which was in 50m of space that bud kicked to him is poor.
So thats fine, not all key backs need to be intercept markers but they need to be elite one on one defenders then and we prefer Frost on the main key forward.

I dont even get mad when Frost drops marks at the moment because he atleast goes for them. I couldnt care if Omac ****s them up but to stay in our plans going forward he need to go back to the VFL and try and mark everything.
 
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Topkent said:
Yeah I dunno the career stats and stuff are hard to compare to be fair. Alot of what I dont like about him is hard to quantify in stats, like for Instance he chooses to spoil far too often for my liking and the spoils are with authority, they are crumbed by the oppo easily. Not really a stat for that.

The intercept marking this year though, 1 for the season which was in 50m of space that bud kicked to him is poor.
So thats fine, not all key backs need to be intercept markers but they need to be elite one on one defenders then and we prefer Frost on the main key forward.

I dont even get mad when Frost drops marks at the moment because he atleast goes for them. I couldnt care if he ****s them up but to stay in our plans going forward he need to go back to the VFL and try and mark everything.
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I agree with all of that about Omac, but Frost...I don't think I've ever been more frustrated by a player. The first 3 rounds I was calling for his head. Slight redemption in the swans game but I maintain he didn't do a job on buddy, buddy just kicked poorly. I want both of them to succeed. I think both Frost and Omac can be great with some tweaks to their game.
 
DeesFanTheMan said:
I agree with all of that about Omac, but Frost...I don't think I've ever been more frustrated by a player. The first 3 rounds I was calling for his head. Slight redemption in the swans game but I maintain he didn't do a job on buddy, buddy just kicked poorly. I want both of them to succeed. I think both Frost and Omac can be great with some tweaks to their game.
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The simplest way I can compare them is Omacs best games are like 7s, last year he maintained a 6 alot but hes very average.
Frost can play 8s and 9s but he can also play 2s and 3s. When Frost is marking and then running 30m he looks incredible. He also takes on more dangerous kicks than Omac IMO. Stuffs em up more aswell.
Ive never had a problem with Omac disposal, not really an issue for him.
 
Topkent said:
The simplest way I can compare them is Omacs best games are like 7s, last year he maintained a 6 alot but hes very average.
Frost can play 8s and 9s but he can also play 2s and 3s. When Frost is marking and then running 30m he looks incredible. He also takes on more dangerous kicks than Omac IMO. Stuffs em up more aswell.
Ive never had a problem with Omac disposal, not really an issue for him.
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Frost as his best looks awesome, I just hate seeing him slip over, or try and take someone on and get pinged holding the ball or turning it over, I feel like he does that a lot.
 
DeesFanTheMan said:
Frost as his best looks awesome, I just hate seeing him slip over, or try and take someone on and get pinged holding the ball or turning it over, I feel like he does that a lot.
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I feel like Frost more than any other player on our list needs like 3 or 4 games to get going.
 

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