Betstar Champions Cup OMFL 2024 Discussion

[Trent the flight Steward]

The last years finals sides all get stronger and we see another player enticed away from a bottom club to a finals side, whens afl vic going to step in

 

[BigLarry76]

The last years finals sides all get stronger and we see another player enticed away from a bottom club to a finals side, whens afl vic going to step in

No qualms here from me, says more about the character of the player than Wodonga in this situation. Wodonga have been building pretty steadily for a while now, I’d be harping a different tune had Wangaratta snared him. Redcliffe and KWV could prove a deadly one-two combo if they can gel. Having said that, it’s frustrating to see Myrtleford having a nice off-season then losing a key figure, same as Raiders the other year, would’ve been fantastic for the league to see Muller and Ellis Yolemen in tandem, money speaks.

 

[Randall Stevens]

whens afl vic going to step in

And do what?

I understand that you are frustrated, but as long as clubs are not breaking any rules, what can the administrators do?
And how far do you go with restricting recruiting? I assume in this case you are referring to Winter-Irving moving from Myrtleford to Wodonga (understanding that your general complaint applies more broadly).
Myrtleford only recruited him from Seymour - a fellow major league club - last year. I'm sure Seymour were unhappy about that, as would be any club which loses an important player, but it happens. And also, Wodonga themselves have still only won one final in about fifteen years is it? I would think they are still very much building toward any real success.

I have seen your suggestion of 4 points plus 1 extra point for each ladder position for players moving clubs within the same league. While at least you are trying to come up with an option, to me that one is totally disproportionate - it means that a role player from another O&M club could cost twice the points of a player straight out of the AFL.

What if a player wants to go to another Club because the Club he is at is poorly run, or poorly coached? Should that player be denied the chance for on-field success while still playing at the highest level comp he is capable of? (For clarity, I am not having a go at any particular club, the point applies to any league or level).

I wish the league - most leagues - could be more competitive, but I also think there has to be a balance with the rights of players to have a chance of success.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

How many role players go from a bottom club to a finals club? The bottom clubs best players are getting picked off by the top sides. As the top sides have points to play with. It's very hard to build a culture, from the bottom when this happens. This has become an issue through the entire state. Players used to only go to the clubs in the same league to coach and more game time

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Afl vic did bring in the points system to alter player movement too

 

[Randall Stevens]

Afl vic did bring in the points system to alter player movement too

I know that, and I think that the points system - while far from perfect - is much a better model than a $ salary cap alone, which was - and perhaps still is by some - blatantly rorted.

I just think that your model goes too far when Winter-Iriving would cost Wodonga ten points this year compared to O'Brien to Rovers and Howe to Yarra costing six each (and any others straight from AFL not returning to home clubs).

 

[Bunk Moreland]

You can make it unviable for clubs to take players off their opponents. Then they’ll just start plundering elsewhere, such as other leagues.

People can feel sorry for lowlier O&M clubs, but all they’re really going to do is pass the problems on elsewhere. I’m sure there’s clubs in smaller leagues who do their best to build themselves up, only to have players of any talent snatched away by bigger clubs in bigger leagues.

You might be a goldfish in your pond but to some others you will look like a great white.

If you’re uncompetitive in your league and it’s systemic, a gap you can never close, then you should look to move leagues. There’s a few O&M clubs who look like they will never ever challenge for a flag. I’d want a plan to change that. If it’s impossible, I’d be looking elsewhere.

If the only way to compete is to recruit heavily, and it just leads to those recruits straight away moving to a rival, then I’m not sitting around doing that for 50 years.

Or maybe… my club just isn’t a great place to be and players want to leave?

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

I'd rather see clubs bring in ex afl talent into any league, it generally lifts the standard bar the rovers recruits from 2013, then see clubs pillage the bottom teams.

Why not make minor league players under 24, 1 point to come to major league clubs and 1 point for major league players going to minor leagues 33 and over.

We will see mous come in soon I think where there'll be relationships formed between major and minor league clubs too, as there's not enough players

 

[BlueJet]

And do what?

I understand that you are frustrated, but as long as clubs are not breaking any rules, what can the administrators do?
And how far do you go with restricting recruiting? I assume in this case you are referring to Winter-Irving moving from Myrtleford to Wodonga (understanding that your general complaint applies more broadly).
Myrtleford only recruited him from Seymour - a fellow major league club - last year. I'm sure Seymour were unhappy about that, as would be any club which loses an important player, but it happens. And also, Wodonga themselves have still only won one final in about fifteen years is it? I would think they are still very much building toward any real success.

I have seen your suggestion of 4 points plus 1 extra point for each ladder position for players moving clubs within the same league. While at least you are trying to come up with an option, to me that one is totally disproportionate - it means that a role player from another O&M club could cost twice the points of a player straight out of the AFL.

What if a player wants to go to another Club because the Club he is at is poorly run, or poorly coached? Should that player be denied the chance for on-field success while still playing at the highest level comp he is capable of? (For clarity, I am not having a go at any particular club, the point applies to any league or level).

I wish the league - most leagues - could be more competitive, but I also think there has to be a balance with the rights of players to have a chance of success.

I'm cynical of HQ at the best of times but it does appear damned if you do, damned if you don't on occasion - people have bleated about the implementation of competitive balance initiatives (Salary & Points caps) but then expect them to bail clubs/comps out when it suits. (Note: this is a general comment, not in response to Trent)
I agree that additional points should be added to intra-comp recruits as it is the most straightforward method to curb which is essentially Real Madrid/New York Yankees style destabilisation of rivals.
Picking over the corpse of a battling club is pretty low-character stuff, particularly when some of these clubs gain no shortage of interest from further afield once they do decide to loosen up the purse strings,

 

[RandyStickman]

Long time lurker first time poster with very basic knowledge of O&M history and how points systems work and are enforced etc. So take that into account if you feel my comments lack merit.

It seems clear that AFL Vic have little interest in the competitiveness of clubs within their respective leagues, and primary focus is on numbers of players playing the game or possibly number of auskick participants and junior participants as their primary KPI.

If that is the case, then the health of each league and each individual club within that league could be determined by the positive effect that each club has on it's community and measured by the number of supporters who come through the gate.

Is it a possibility that influential people from each club, presidents, past players etc. could come together to discuss the general state of the overall competition with a view to forming a 'competition committee' that oversees all the issues that contribute to recruitment, player points, transfers and such. These people would obviously have to put their allegiance to their club to one side in in favour a view of re-building the standard and eveness of the competition.

It seems to me, from what I have read on this forum, that there are a lot of very knowledgeable and passionate people who understand the competition, know the players involved and can see the benefit of a more equality between clubs is good for the competition and makes for a more attractive product to bring supporters through the gate.

Controlling player movement between clubs and number of new recruits each club can have could be based on previous years ladder position, number of players lost through retirement or moving to another league. Who moves where could be determined by majority vote. Rules that allow lower clubs to attract higher quality players with salary cap / points concessions could be also be tabled and agreed upon. This, in turn, could incentivise lower ranked clubs to manage their finances better, increase engagement with their communities and build a stronger club.

It just seems to me that the current player points system and auditing of salary caps is not working or open to corruption which allows the wealthier clubs to rob other clubs talent.

Gentlemen, your thoughts?

 

[Fruit]

I'd rather see clubs bring in ex afl talent into any league, it generally lifts the standard bar the rovers recruits from 2013, then see clubs pillage the bottom teams.

Why not make minor league players under 24, 1 point to come to major league clubs and 1 point for major league players going to minor leagues 33 and over.

We will see mous come in soon I think where there'll be relationships formed between major and minor league clubs too, as there's not enough players

good suggestion

 

[head16]

Players that have come from another club within the same league should never reduce to 1 point, the lowest they can go is 2 points. If they change clubs again the lowest they can go is 3 points.

Think of Muller as a recent example. North Albury - he can go to 1 point.
Raiders - can only reduce to 2 points.
Albury - can only reduce to 3 points.

If they’ve left the comp and returned after “x” years this rule would not apply.

It would discourage, but not necessarily stop, players from jumping clubs repeatedly and clubs from targeting opposition players.

 

[BigLarry76]

We used to work for a crust, we didn’t factor in match payments when getting a mortgage, it’s gotten out of hand. Football was an escape from the rat race, not a passive income, get real, get back to your home clubs for bloody Christ sake, before it evaporates in to thin air. I respect the hell out of father son and third generation players toiling with their hearts on the sleeve, that’s what it’s all about. Shopping yourselves around is a disgrace, especially from soft arrogant showboating would be footballers who couldn’t give a damn about the game.

 

[BigLarry76]

Players that have come from another club within the same league should never reduce to 1 point, the lowest they can go is 2 points. If they change clubs again the lowest they can go is 3 points.

Think of Muller as a recent example. North Albury - he can go to 1 point.
Raiders - can only reduce to 2 points.
Albury - can only reduce to 3 points.

If they’ve left the comp and returned after “x” years this rule would not apply.

It would discourage, but not necessarily stop, players from jumping clubs repeatedly and clubs from targeting opposition players.

Some forward thinking ideas here, I’ll be forwarding these to the fat cats, although it might be all too logical for some of the dimwits running this show.

 

[BigLarry76]

Toss km

good suggestion

t

 

[BigLarry76]

,toss money to the curb side, mm fair playing field , Corow are top three club still , absolutely certain they would be. Wangaratta would struggle if dollars weren’t dictating the modern day game ,

 

[BigLarry76]

I saw this back when league was at its peak Wangaratta’s , unfit and almost done for . Corowa were thriving , full muscle on the field, some lunatics but by god they could play.

 

[Trent the flight Steward]

Was dickens a favourite Geoff?

 

[Macgyver]

Big Geoffy's had a powdered dinner this evening, we are about to get knowledge bombed

 

[Dr Truth]

Big Geoffy's had a powdered dinner this evening, we are about to get knowledge bombed

Chicken time with a bottle of portello?

 

[noosaboy]

Chicken time with a bottle of portello?

Don’t comment much but big Geoff is so entertaining! This is the best forum on big footy because of him

 

[toxic]

We used to work for a crust, we didn’t factor in match payments when getting a mortgage, it’s gotten out of hand. Football was an escape from the rat race, not a passive income, get real, get back to your home clubs for bloody Christ sake, before it evaporates in to thin air. I respect the hell out of father son and third generation players toiling with their hearts on the sleeve, that’s what it’s all about. Shopping yourselves around is a disgrace, especially from soft arrogant showboating would be footballers who couldn’t give a damn about the game.

 

[Rumourmill18]

Here is my guess at big laz night last night.
First bottle of Shiraz gets cracked around 5pm, first glass barely touches the sides. Second glass filled to the brim by about 5:15 sits on the couch and has a scroll on big footy until he finds something triggering.
5:30 takes his frustration out by tenderising his tomahawk steak with a few left right good nights then tops up his glass and gets dinner on the go, 1st bottle has dissapeared.
After a good feed of steak and chips plus another bottle it’s time for some half decent ranting on big footy about days gone by and how it used to be.
Amidst some brainstorming of future rants the old fella has failed to realise his battery level and the dog and bone has gone dead flat.
Perfect time to plug it in, have a reset and scale back through his personal scrap book of rovers newspaper clippings from the 70s and 90s, even fired up the PC to read KB on reflection #r#roversbut spewing he can’t remember his bf password.
We are now at 9:30 and the iPhones battery is as full as the veins in his pecker after reading some rovers literature, a flurry of big footy posts follow as he tries to make up for lost time but it’s too late, 5 bottles of brown brothers finest and blind as a welders dog his head hits the hay. Onya laz, we all love you

 

[Magnets]

Here is my guess at big laz night last night.
First bottle of Shiraz gets cracked around 5pm, first glass barely touches the sides. Second glass filled to the brim by about 5:15 sits on the couch and has a scroll on big footy until he finds something triggering.
5:30 takes his frustration out by tenderising his tomahawk steak with a few left right good nights then tops up his glass and gets dinner on the go, 1st bottle has dissapeared.
After a good feed of steak and chips plus another bottle it’s time for some half decent ranting on big footy about days gone by and how it used to be.
Amidst some brainstorming of future rants the old fella has failed to realise his battery level and the dog and bone has gone dead flat.
Perfect time to plug it in, have a reset and scale back through his personal scrap book of rovers newspaper clippings from the 70s and 90s, even fired up the PC to read KB on reflection #r#roversags, but spewing he can’t remember his bf password.
We are now at 9:30 and the iPhones battery is as full as the veins in his pecker after reading some rovers literature, a flurry of big footy posts follow as he tries to make up for lost time but it’s too late, 5 bottles of brown brothers finest and blind as a welders dog his head hits the hay. Onya laz, we all love you

Add in the $100 pop putting him out of the quaddie in Melbourne, and an unlucky day in general on the punt. Things in general have imploded. Still my fave x

 

[Oraaaaazio]

Add in the $100 pop putting him out of the quaddie in Melbourne, and an unlucky day in general on the punt. Things in general have imploded. Still my fave x

No way, he definitely had the roughie in the quad. Had rated it a $4.40 chance based on his inside info from his relationship with the trainer. He used to see the Hayes old man at trackwork when he was running 40x400s around their home base. Beat a few horses home too.