On the ball with Luke

[jonbe54]

So many people are saying - and quite rightly - that without Jols we would have gone down in the first GF and that he was a massive injection of dominance around the ground which we lacked from first ruck. Props Jols for a fantastic season and heartfelt thanks from this old pieman.

But for the guy who embodied side by side and transformed our onball division I don't think there can be enough praise heaped either.

His commitment to the contest and the ball released our more creative mids to unleash their talent and gave us one of the most dynamic midfields it has been my pleasure to watch in black and white.

Honored in the clubs yearbook

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/newsfeatures/news/newsarticle/tabid/5586/newsid/106457/default.aspx

And loved by all, a real guy who oozes class on and off the field.

 

[OniAu]

amazes me at st kildas recruiting staff , the blunders they have had over the last 3 seasons in trades etc. Then on the flipside to let such an important player and clubman go to a side contesting the flag.

couldnt get a classier guy, he is going to be great for our young kids as an example of how to hold themselves on and off the field.

 

[jonbe54]

I really do believe he was a perfect fit from the start with his attitude and work ethic. His behavior at the end of GF2 is a shining example for our young guys - play the game hard and fair - and never forget your mates.

Side by side.

 

[vjknight]

if you recall in the leadup to GF2, there was the talk surrounding ball's availability for the game, and if not available, who could step up in his place. i recall saying blair, as he showed he wasnt scared of a contest, was sufficiently skilled to be in & under & still deliver, like ball.

id say luke's worth will come thru in the next 2 years as he takes kids like blair under his wing and show them how to play old fashioned 'hard ball get' style of play. wide receivers are a dime a dozen, but the blokes getting the hard pill in the first place are priceless.

 

[jonbe54]

Total agreement vj he's taken our midfield from talented to menacing already and with a couple of years to groom the youngsters he could leave a lasting legacy in courage, determination and character that will stand the club in good stead for years to come.

 

[Jelly Bean]

Total agreement vj he's taken our midfield from talented to menacing already and with a couple of years to groom the youngsters he could leave a lasting legacy in courage, determination and character that will stand the club in good stead for years to come.

I also agree with this. He really needs to take someone like Beams under his wing and pass these traits on to him. If Beams can develop the sort of desire that Ball shows, then this characteristic in combination with his good hands and hardness at the pill should see him become a very solid centreman for us for the next 10 years. At present, he doesn't quite show the desperation (ie tackling).

As for Ball - he is very good for our midfield and will hopefully be a cornerstone for the next two years as the youngsters (Beams and Blair) come up and put pressure on his spot.

 

[Soul_Pie]

The thing about Ball is that he essentially acted like a one man "wrecking ball" at times, just absolutely smashing into contests and in the process clearing the way for our other players. So even if he didn't get first use of the ball he would be in there offering protection for the teammates around him. In this way he improved our midfield a great deal, because not only did he often win the hard ball but he also allowed other blokes to be freed up to play their natural game. When he was firing and at his tough as nails best it seemed like the midfielders around him rose to greater heights.

Love the way he goes about it.

 

[mwalker]

agree with everyone. He toughens us up. Gives us a genuine hardnut clearance type, which as others said, has freed up others to do what they do best. Plus the crashing of packs and from all the evidence and absolute professional on the training track and a great leader of ppl. He will have such an impact on the younger guys.

I am stoked to have him complete another preseason with us and I truly believe he can give us a better year in 2011 than he did in 2010.

 

[Gone Critical]

agree with everyone. He toughens us up. Gives us a genuine hardnut clearance type, which as others said, has freed up others to do what they do best. Plus the crashing of packs and from all the evidence and absolute professional on the training track and a great leader of ppl. He will have such an impact on the younger guys.

I am stoked to have him complete another preseason with us and I truly believe he can give us a better year in 2011 than he did in 2010.

Agree with all thats been said about his contribution this year. His toughness has been fantastic and his character and example cant be priced

I think you make a really good point about 2011. With a year in our system he will stretch his leadership wings out now. He has had a number of seasons cruelled by injury but has had a preseason last year and if he comes through this years in good shape I think his output will rise significantly

Guys who have been troubled with injury often make big inroads back with a couple of preseasons and learning to play within their new limitations. The really hard players who are also topliners can do this.

A great example of what Ball could be in the 2nd half of his career is Gavin Brown. He was a young fearless wrecking machine when it came to attacking the ball and it cost his body the same as Ball. Yet he came back to win B&Fs and BOGs in State games by attention to fitness and operating within his new limits. He is not as good as Browny but Ball has similar attributes.

One other point about Ball in the 2nd GF. I watched him immed after the siren went. He and Goddard were together and Goddard reached out and grabbed him and gave him a massive hug. Really epitomised the bond he had there and was a moving gesture by Goddard. He is a warrior also and is a player you cant help but admire. I dont think that moment was captured by the TV which is a pity

 

[drummoyne]

I would love Beams to model his inside game on Ball's. He has the opportunity to learn from one of the hardest-working players at our club and a classy guy too!

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Ball wasnt in their best 22.

He was behind Eddy, McQualter, Peake, Baker...................

 

[daics_35]

Ball wasnt in their best 22.

He was behind Eddy, McQualter, Peake, Baker...................

So true, becuase you have to be a hack like them to fit in Stkildas game plan.

 

[Quicky]

I think the biggest thing that Ball added to our midfield was balance and depth.

He really filled a role we lacked as a genuine in and under midfielder.

This I think took the burden off Pendlebury and Swan to provide all our clearances which allowed them to be more damaging.

It also had a flow on right through all of our midfield players. When you add an extra player that requires a quality match up like Ball does it means that the last player in the midfield - in our case someone like Wellingham - is often matching up on a much less talented opponent and is therefore more likely to have an impact on the game.

I think once Ball started playing within himself and to his strengths he was great for us. There were a few games he was trying too much with his kicking and it just wasn't paying off. But when he got in and under winning clearances, or if not nuetralising them he was enormously valueable to our team. His tackling efforts were immense.

 

[Swooop]

Ball wasnt in their best 22.

He was behind Eddy, McQualter, Peake, Baker...................

Thank you Timmy, that gave me a good laugh ( which I needed!)

It's interesteing isn't it, because clearly Ross Lyon has done a very good job as coach of St Kilda, so very close to winning two GFs, covered Riewoldt's absence with his hammy so well this year, carried a poor bottom six to within a whisker of footballing immortality.

But, his amazing oversight as you alluded to...wtf was he thinking??

As everyone in this thread has identified, not just the player, but the character and the role model...

Dear oh dear, i wonder if poor Ross lies awake at night and asks himself whether or not that decision cost his team a premiership.

We'll never know, but i believe it did, on the balance of probabilities.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It's interesteing isn't it, because clearly Ross Lyon has done a very good job as coach of St Kilda, so very close to winning two GFs, covered Riewoldt's absence with his hammy so well this year, carried a poor bottom six to within a whisker of footballing immortality.

Its got to be remembered he inherited a quality list that made consecutive PF's with an ordinary coach. All their key players were already at the club under Thomas.

Whilst you are right to some extent that he has done well (obviously) all he has really done so far is take the Paul Roos copybook and use what the Swans did by playing shutdown footy.

What he hasnt done (yet) is bring through any youngsters, and the few he has brought through for one reason or another have had limited game time. I am starting to think he's quite a divisive coach who spend his time pampering the egos of the top 6-10 players on the list, and pays scant regard to youth development. Maybe the most significant departure of all this year is a young rookie who quit. That just shouldnt happen at a dual GF club unless there is something wrong with the way the club is treating its younger players.

The real Ross Lyon will be tested in coming years as to whether he changes his (a) trading strategies, (b) youth policy and (c) gameplan. Not to mention (d) off field discipline and general team culture. All of them are in need of repair. Malthouse gradually improved in all of those departments - some just at the fringes, some radically. since 02/03. Lyon of course wont get the seven years grace that Malthouse had and may try and continue to take shortcuts to a flag.

Anyway, back to Luke Ball, how good is he?????

 

[TradeDraft]

I think the biggest thing that Ball added to our midfield was balance and depth.

He really filled a role we lacked as a genuine in and under midfielder.

This I think took the burden off Pendlebury and Swan to provide all our clearances which allowed them to be more damaging.

It also had a flow on right through all of our midfield players. When you add an extra player that requires a quality match up like Ball does it means that the last player in the midfield - in our case someone like Wellingham - is often matching up on a much less talented opponent and is therefore more likely to have an impact on the game.

I think once Ball started playing within himself and to his strengths he was great for us. There were a few games he was trying too much with his kicking and it just wasn't paying off. But when he got in and under winning clearances, or if not nuetralising them he was enormously valueable to our team. His tackling efforts were immense.

Very Well Said Quicky. The Pressure he took off Pendles and Swan was great

 

[jonbe54]

Very Well Said Quicky. The Pressure he took off Pendles and Swan was great

Totally agree, allowed them to concentrate more on creating play, which had a flow on effect with the rest of the midfield, not to mention the forward line which benefited from vastly improved quantity and quality of supply.

 

[Quicky]

The other telling impact that Ball had on the midfield group was that he always took the oppos best in and under player as a match up. If we were playing the Doggies he took Cross, Lions > Black, Saints > Hayes, Hawks > Mitchell etc etc. These type of players have traditionally really bothered us and just didn't have the same impact this year against us as they have in the past. This is because Ball made them accountable at the stoppages. He would either win the clearance or if not he would often nuetralise the contest with his tackling pressure. Thats a big thing because when we didn't win the clearance we often didn't lose it either.

 

[Swooop]

Its got to be remembered he inherited a quality list that made consecutive PF's with an ordinary coach. All their key players were already at the club under Thomas.

Whilst you are right to some extent that he has done well (obviously) all he has really done so far is take the Paul Roos copybook and use what the Swans did by playing shutdown footy.

What he hasnt done (yet) is bring through any youngsters, and the few he has brought through for one reason or another have had limited game time. I am starting to think he's quite a divisive coach who spend his time pampering the egos of the top 6-10 players on the list, and pays scant regard to youth development. Maybe the most significant departure of all this year is a young rookie who quit. That just shouldnt happen at a dual GF club unless there is something wrong with the way the club is treating its younger players.

The real Ross Lyon will be tested in coming years as to whether he changes his (a) trading strategies, (b) youth policy and (c) gameplan. Not to mention (d) off field discipline and general team culture. All of them are in need of repair. Malthouse gradually improved in all of those departments - some just at the fringes, some radically. since 02/03. Lyon of course wont get the seven years grace that Malthouse had and may try and continue to take shortcuts to a flag.

Yep, these are all excellent points you make.

Will be interesting to see how he goes direction-wise from here.

I do agree re the management of youngsters, I think many Saints supporters feel the same way, esp after the GFs.

Maybe can't put too much of a line through Gaertner quitting, one is a small sample size, who knows what his reasons were..Cox quit from us didn't he? though maybe he jumped first..

How Cats and Saints hold up will be one of the more interesting things ( amongst many!!) to watch for next season.

 

[jonbe54]

I think the most telling agrument against 'Saints Footy' is that negative football won't win you a flag against a talented attacking side willing to take the zone on. Saints footy is too one dimensional and one paced to win GF's. You have to put it on the line not wait for the opposition to stuff up.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Maybe can't put too much of a line through Gaertner quitting, one is a small sample size, who knows what his reasons were..Cox quit from us didn't he? though maybe he jumped first...

Cox was sacked (asked to retire) by Nathan Buckley (in Malthouses absence, he was on a long holiday) because he was too fat. And he wasnt a first year player - or even a second year player. He had been around long enough to know what was required. He is hardly comparable to Gaertner.

Maybe I am drawing the bow a bit long with Gaernter but I'd guess that not feeling like he belonged was part of the reason he walked.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think the most telling agrument against 'Saints Footy' is that negative football won't win you a flag against a talented attacking side willing to take the zone on. Saints footy is too one dimensional and one paced to win GF's. You have to put it on the line not wait for the opposition to stuff up.

Funnily enough thats EXACTLY the reason they got rid of Ball and brought in Lovett. Pace and flair and willingness to "turn it on" for the crowd.

Which all goes to show it isnt always about pace and number of dimensions you have, sometimes its about the strength of character and leadership as well.

 

[Ed D]

The other telling impact that Ball had on the midfield group was that he always took the oppos best in and under player as a match up. If we were playing the Doggies he took Cross, Lions > Black, Saints > Hayes, Hawks > Mitchell etc etc. These type of players have traditionally really bothered us and just didn't have the same impact this year against us as they have in the past. This is because Ball made them accountable at the stoppages. He would either win the clearance or if not he would often nuetralise the contest with his tackling pressure. Thats a big thing because when we didn't when the clearance we often didn't lose it either.

Very good point.

To me O'Bree was doing a good job for us in 2009 and before but he didn't really have the presence to win the ball if it wasn't in his area, and he didn't appear to be able to stop players like Ball can. And like you're pointing out with Ball, he didn't attract a class opponent.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I think the biggest thing that Ball added to our midfield was balance and depth.

He really filled a role we lacked as a genuine in and under midfielder.

This I think took the burden off Pendlebury and Swan to provide all our clearances which allowed them to be more damaging.

It also had a flow on right through all of our midfield players. When you add an extra player that requires a quality match up like Ball does it means that the last player in the midfield - in our case someone like Wellingham - is often matching up on a much less talented opponent and is therefore more likely to have an impact on the game.

I think once Ball started playing within himself and to his strengths he was great for us. There were a few games he was trying too much with his kicking and it just wasn't paying off. But when he got in and under winning clearances, or if not nuetralising them he was enormously valueable to our team. His tackling efforts were immense.

Could not have said it better!

Also I have a predilection towards midfielders with G&D, which Luke has in spades. I really liked him around 2004/5.

 

[Hva sher a]

Agree with the sentiments here about Ball. Which raises the question, who is his immediate natural successor? I'm also talking about his leadership, pack splitting attributes...not sure if Blair is there yet.