One qtr is not enough

[Cathal Brugha]

Honestly mate do you truly believe Collingwood were only saved by the last qtr.? They coasted for a while then went up a gear. They won as they liked.

Why was the attendance 30,000 down on the Pies V Blues game last week? Because away for here where we try to find positives the majority of fans know what was going to happen....what did happen....a flogging.


I'm sick of all the touchy feely feelgood stuff. Richmond are a poor footy side.

It was 'tongue in cheek'. But when a side is as young as ours and you see that the youngest blokes in that side are playing good footy, there is reason for optimism.

 

[IDGAF]

Richmond are a poor footy side.

I don't think there are too many illusions there.

I went into the game thinking anything less than a ten goal loss is a win , especially given recent history against them.

Fact is Deledio , Martin and Cotchin were fantastic last night and if that dosn't hearten you for the future then nothing will . Its our lack of depth thats hurting us and only time and patience can fix that . Still a lot of passengers out there and that is why we will struggle to play 4 quarters .

For us to be competitive "now" we need experienced players like Morton and Connors out there playing good footy but where are they ? ... and as for Edwards

We are another year away so be patient and suck it up

 

[Rayzorwire]

Edit:

Misread the thread title...thought it said "One team is not enough."

 

[vjknight]

hey guys - a quick one.

i havent watched the game yet, will do over the weekend.

a tiger mate who was going was fretting over the score, i suggested just watching the stoppages and seeing if they could win at least their share, if not more. 2 quality midfields against each other.

i put it to you - did your team win the stoppages, lose, or all square ?

 

[NQTIGER]

Personally find the 1st quarters more disappointing than the 4th.
With our young side I can understand being overrun in the last quarter by older more experienced sides.

But the first quarters have been so disappointing, and whilst our good quarters have been good, I still can't shake this nagging doubt at the back of my mind, that our third quarter performances have come when the opposition have dropped their intensity after getting a good lead.

The next couple of games will really show us where this group is at. There can be no excuses for letting poor north and lions sides jump to 30 point leads in the 1st quarter.

That is the most insightfull post , infact i would say post of the year, reiterates my comments from weeks ago.........we come to play at quarter time.

 

[IDGAF]

That is the most insightfull post , infact i would say post of the year, reiterates my comments from weeks ago.........we come to play at quarter time.

defineately the rub

 

[partycorolla]

Did you watch the game last night Astro ?

They tried to play a brand of football against the bench mark that is very tough to play , one that i have never seen a Richmond team have a crack at .

The modern move and carry brand . play on at all costs . straight up the guts . The effort and endeavour is there . If supporters can't see that then they are kidding themselves , its just the execution that is not happening . Wouldn't you rather they began this "era" playing a good brand of footy that will in the future actually take us somewhere rather the Wallace model of containment and damage control to try and make the scoreboard look respectable ?

The first quarter they botched it but slowly they got it together in the next couple of quarters to wind up only 4 and a bit goals at three quarter time.

Now i was as p1ssed off as any supporter about the last quarter but the fact is thats our best game against the filth for a number of years and the fact is you can see incremental improvement . We have been Collingwoods bitch for years now and they have it over us mentally in a major way but for a couple of quarters last night you could see the worm turning .

I wanted to rant and rave last night as well about the fade out and how disappointed i was but after a good nights sleep , a bit of morning glory and a nice cup of coffee it aint so bad once you settle down and put it in its perspective

Very well said... I can understand the last qtr fadeout once the game is completely shot but I loved seeing the team try and take the Pies on with a style we thought could beat them. We didn't try and play safe, with sideways chipping crap.

One thing I found interesting was when Martin kicked in a couple of times straight down the middle (which I had no problem with) we didn't get numbers to the contest... in fact we were outnumbered. Surely the players need to be able to either know the plan or read the signals? Still I liked the game style...

 

[Bojangles17]

I reckon Bathcelor is an absolute beauty and the pick of the litter for mine .

He is a backline general of the Nick Maxwell variety

Love him

agreed idy, betchya in the washup he will be right up there with the rising stars of this era. Is as cool as a cucumber with pill in hand...looks to have played 100 games already.

Not hard to see that his current yield of 10-15 possies in first month of career will soon build to 15-20 possies of quality...GREAT pick up

 

[partycorolla]

Will you all stop being naive? We are a truly hopeless and spineless outfit not fit to play in the AFL.

3rd quarter? The Pies eased off but they simply pushed away in the end with ease. They could have won by 120 if they had wanted to but were saving themselves.

Like St Kilda....

You must have had a big night.... The way we played last night was anything but spineless. We used a high risk, high reward game plan that if you don't quite execute right, gets you burnt.... as it did last night when our bunch of kids couldn't execute it all night. We played in exactly the manner that the Saints should have if they wanted to beat the Pies last year but were too scared to try. If you don't think we should be in the AFL then piss off and go and support some other team. Your negativity is pointless. Stop blaming the Tigers for your own failings.

 

[IDGAF]

agreed idy, betchya in the washup he will be right up there with the rising stars of this era. Is as cool as a cucumber with pill in hand...looks to have played 100 games already.

Not hard to see that his current yield of 10-15 possies in first month of career will soon build to 15-20 possies of quality...GREAT pick up

...

Loved the tackle on Dane Swan when he was running into an open goal ... really buried him and hurt him .

Does look like he's played a hundred

 

[CoggaRules]

I reckon Bathcelor is an absolute beauty and the pick of the litter for mine .

He is a backline general of the Nick Maxwell variety

Love him

Yep, got to agree with this. I have to give just a little leg up to Grimes as well. He was pretty much under the hammer from the start to the finish. Was made to look second rate and not up to it many times, but I have to hand it to the kid, the head didnt drop and he made it to contests time and time again and got involved and he will make it.

 

[astro_toby]

Did you watch the game last night Astro ?

They tried to play a brand of football against the bench mark that is very tough to play , one that i have never seen a Richmond team have a crack at .

The modern move and carry brand . play on at all costs . straight up the guts . The effort and endeavour is there . If supporters can't see that then they are kidding themselves , its just the execution that is not happening . Wouldn't you rather they began this "era" playing a good brand of footy that will in the future actually take us somewhere rather the Wallace model of containment and damage control to try and make the scoreboard look respectable ?

The first quarter they botched it but slowly they got it together in the next couple of quarters to wind up only 4 and a bit goals at three quarter time.

Now i was as p1ssed off as any supporter about the last quarter but the fact is thats our best game against the filth for a number of years and the fact is you can see incremental improvement . We have been Collingwoods bitch for years now and they have it over us mentally in a major way but for a couple of quarters last night you could see the worm turning .

I wanted to rant and rave last night as well about the fade out and how disappointed i was but after a good nights sleep , a bit of morning glory and a nice cup of coffee it aint so bad once you settle down and put it in its perspective

Hey IDGAF,

I do see, and stated this in the original post - the positive signs are there.

Last night was not a one off. This has been an absolute constant all year since the pre-season. I totally understand the process we have committed to and what that will mean in the long term - lots of losses, but lots of courage and heart. I have seen that, which has been heartening.

My point is this terrible trend we have developed. We come out of the blocks like a side who is going to lose. In all 4 games this season we have either been smashed - or our opponents could have - in the 1ST Qtr. We have also just allowed games where we have fought so bloody hard to get back into slip away with insipid last quarters.

This is a club with seriously ingrained defeatist attitude, that has shown certain characteristic traits that seem to be built into the club from generation to generation. We are the masters of forming bad habits that lead to losing games. Hardwick identified last qtr fadeouts as something we needed to work on as it was "soul destroying" , and since that moment he made the statement - they have pretty much gotten worse.

Our biggest enemy has always been ourselves and our minds. I am very worried that while we all sit here and shrug off these efforts and purely focus on the positive moments - we are just going to let a new mental hurdle get in our way to success.

Don't get me wrong, in all games i have seen reasons to smile and show hope. But the one trend has been terrible starts with dreadful ends. These are the moments when the game is entirely there to be won - and we are just not in the contest at all. The question was raised earlier where you must wonder if the opposition just drops their intensity due to getting into a sense of security. The only team we have been able to avoid doing this with so far is the saints - and club who unquestionaly are mentally weak right now, and totally lacking in intensity.

Everyone's sp fearful of someone being critical here. People need to realize it is possible to see both light and dark without just being "a hater" . I watched the game. I saw the positives like everyone else, i appreciated the approach we took and the guts we had to do and persist with that. What i also saw was about 20 years of richmond letting a game get away from them before it had even really had a chance to begin, and a final qtr which suggested "close enough is good enough".

Don;t forget that the wallace team showed several years of promise and improvement before the skills just magically went to shit. Players who seemed to know how to kick just all of a sudden couldn't. Right now this same mystery is falling over edwards, and you got to wonder if it will stop there. Deledio, Cotch, Riewoldt, Newman & Martin are the only certainy's when it comes to basic skills at the moment. Lots of holes and question marks over the rest.

 

[PHX]

I see the positives, it was all over the 3rd qtr - but while we are getting so badly destroyed on the bookends we are shoveling shit up a hill. We are giving ourselves no chance - and it is a terrible terrible terrible habit to create.

Beastly Collingwood bookends with David Astbury who is is coming to terms with his increased weights effect on his athleticism and speed and poor old Dylan Grimes who is clearly a 3rd tall defender working his arse off on a man mountain in his 3rd game.

We had no other options so I'm not sure what other result can come from those match ups other than them being outclassed regularly with the delivery that comes in from the Pies midfield..

Take the little things and move on. We were never going to win last night and a 12 goal defeat is about what should have been expected given the gulf in class between teams. The last quarter was a let down but we wont be the last team and arent the first this year to have goals heaped on us in a hurry by Collingwood. Just look at the Norf game to see it could have been so much worse. At least we can take positives out of it.

Speaking of North, we now have a game we will be expected to win. Things begin to get very interesting next week as we finally get a truly winnable game to see how this team handles it.

 

[IDGAF]

Hey IDGAF,

I do see, and stated this in the original post - the positive signs are there.

Last night was not a one off. This has been an absolute constant all year since the pre-season. I totally understand the process we have committed to and what that will mean in the long term - lots of losses, but lots of courage and heart. I have seen that, which has been heartening.

My point is this terrible trend we have developed. We come out of the blocks like a side who is going to lose. In all 4 games this season we have either been smashed - or our opponents could have - in the 1ST Qtr. We have also just allowed games where we have fought so bloody hard to get back into slip away with insipid last quarters.

This is a club with seriously ingrained defeatist attitude, that has shown certain characteristic traits that seem to be built into the club from generation to generation. We are the masters of forming bad habits that lead to losing games. Hardwick identified last qtr fadeouts as something we needed to work on as it was "soul destroying" , and since that moment he made the statement - they have pretty much gotten worse.

Our biggest enemy has always been ourselves and our minds. I am very worried that while we all sit here and shrug off these efforts and purely focus on the positive moments - we are just going to let a new mental hurdle get in our way to success.

Don't get me wrong, in all games i have seen reasons to smile and show hope. But the one trend has been terrible starts with dreadful ends. These are the moments when the game is entirely there to be won - and we are just not in the contest at all. The question was raised earlier where you must wonder if the opposition just drops their intensity due to getting into a sense of security. The only team we have been able to avoid doing this with so far is the saints - and club who unquestionaly are mentally weak right now, and totally lacking in intensity.

Everyone's sp fearful of someone being critical here. People need to realize it is possible to see both light and dark without just being "a hater" . I watched the game. I saw the positives like everyone else, i appreciated the approach we took and the guts we had to do and persist with that. What i also saw was about 20 years of richmond letting a game get away from them before it had even really had a chance to begin, and a final qtr which suggested "close enough is good enough".

Don;t forget that the wallace team showed several years of promise and improvement before the skills just magically went to shit. Players who seemed to know how to kick just all of a sudden couldn't. Right now this same mystery is falling over edwards, and you got to wonder if it will stop there. Deledio, Cotch, Riewoldt, Newman & Martin are the only certainy's when it comes to basic skills at the moment. Lots of holes and question marks over the rest.

Fair calls

I think the club is doing all it can to address ingrained "cultural" issues , that is something we just have to be patient about because that sort of thing really is a long term issue .

... and i've acknowledged our lack of depth . We are at least one more solid draft away from getting to top 8 material .

The three biggest concerns IMHO ... Morton , Edwards and Connors . At the age and level of experience now where they should be leading the way but absolutely AWOL ... This is why we are struggling . oh ... and having all our key backmen either out or unfit does now help either .

There is upside Astro ... but i will echo another posters thoughts , the first quarters are a bigger concern than the last quarters . does seriously need to be looked at

 

[astro_toby]

Speaking of North, we now have a game we will be expected to win. Things begin to get very interesting next week as we finally get a truly winnable game to see how this team handles it.

this is exactly right.

If the club can put 4 qtrs together against the likes of north, port, melbourne, brisbane, gold coast, Lions, Crows & Eagles - this should be what we term as "acceptable".

But as it stands, we haven't done this yet - so the question lingers until they do it.

totally realize our start to the season has been a nightmare fixture. Why the AFL would put the 2nd worst side last season against 3 teams that have won or played in grand finals over the past 4 years is ridiculous - does nothing for the comp.If we come out and give up 7 goals in the 1st or last qtr next week, expect people to be paying a lot more attention to this trend.

shall be a very interesting game next week. Winning should be in our players minds, and i expect them to approach it from the 1st and last moment with that thought in mind

 

[PHX]

I dont think it's just us either.

Oppositioin teams also believe they are so much better and play with more confidence when they play Richmond. Freo have had to fight through the same thing.

We need to show on a consistant basis we wont roll over and the first quarter shamozzles are not the place to start it and it definitely needs to be looked at as after fighting back because of shithouse starts there is simply no fuel left in the tank.

 

[astro_toby]

erial .

The three biggest concerns IMHO ... Morton , Edwards and Connors . At the age and level of experience now where they should be leading the way but absolutely AWOL ... This is why we are struggling . oh ... and having all our key backmen either out or unfit does now help either .

yep. Definitely these guys are showing the early signs of being the Tambling, Raines,Pettifer of their generation. All those blokes showed genuine reason to be excited and genuine skills to that we seemed to be able to build a team around, but ultimately something happened inbetween the ears when it came to judgement day and they crumbled.

We still have the suspect recycled players in Miller & Houli (with hislop still on the list) - and i think all talls of the backline, McGuane, Post, Rance, Grimes, Thurstfield, Astbury, Moore all seem entirely suspect of being capable of playing any other position than the 3rd tall.

We still lack genuine small forwards and a consistent medium tall forward.

I want to be excited, but these issues stiil seem glaring to me. All it will take is one type 2007 draft to put the club back to square one. All it will take is two injuries like what happened to Cogs and Brown to happen to cotch, lids, martin, riewoldt or newman - and we are back to square one.

Things are improving, but they hang by a thread for mine. these affected drafts are really going to hurt any longterm chance we have of genuine success.

 

[astro_toby]

We need to show on a consistant basis we wont roll over and the first quarter shamozzles are not the place to start it and it definitely needs to be looked at as after fighting back because of shithouse starts there is simply no fuel left in the tank.

and thats 100% right. This is exactly why i think as fans we should not just shrug it off as the side affect of "playing the kids" . What we are doing right now is creating the mentality that will either take us forward or drop us back over the next 10 years.

They need to address it right now, and not just expect it to happen once the boys get to "prime" age. This is our hurdle, and we need to LEARN to overcome it now so we can start learning the next phase of our development. THIS is our current KPI and stage of progress - being able to play more than just one great quater of footballer, and 3 shockers. It's all very obvious.

 

[LuKe2428]

The difference is that Collingwood played the same for all 4 qrt's. You can't play 1 good qrt of footy and expected to win. But i kid you not, If we play like we can for the whole 4 qrt's LOOK OUT TOP 3-6 TEAMS, As we will either get with-in 2-3 goals or win by 3-4 goals. We have seen in the 3rd qrt of the Carlton, Collingwood and even the Hawthorn game to an extent. St.Kilda was our only game where we played 4 qrt's and although we didnt win, We should have but we drew with them and they are still a top 8 team in my eye's. We are on the up, It will come with expiriance and fitness.

 

[astro_toby]

bump

Pitiful

These weak starts are a joke. Our defense is mile's off it. All the opposition ever needs to do is bomb it in quickly and we have NFI. I've said it before, and will keep saying it - McGuane is nothing better than a 3rd tall defender.

 

[NQTIGER]

bump

Pitiful

These weak starts are a joke. Our defense is mile's off it. All the opposition ever needs to do is bomb it in quickly and we have NFI. I've said it before, and will keep saying it - McGuane is nothing better than a 3rd tall defender.

we played well in the second

 

[Infamy]

We won, that's all that matters

 

[1980GFVideo]

We won, that's all that matters

it does now but then tomorrow you start thinking about Brisbane and worrying that we will be beaten by a team we should be able to beat if we dont put in the full 100 minutes.

We been through those years where we beat the Kangaroos and Fremantles at Etihad along with some easy beats and yet are never on a win/loss that we can feel is going to push for finals.

 

[PHX]

And really we matched North for scoring shots and in stats across the ground in the first, the only difference was they kicked straight and we didn't.