Operation 2017

[Confuscius]

I don't know much about the draftees coming through, never do apart from the consensus top 5 when they're written about in the paper come draft time... but

He's a terrific left foot kick, he can already kick the ball 50-60cm

I would have thought we'd need someone with a bigger kick in him?

 

[Barrels]

That would be handy and I don't think we'd say no if there was one available that we really rated at one of our non top-10 picks, but what also needs to be taken into account is that we are looking to add as many as 4-5 from NZ to our list by the end of the year and that Pelchan suggested that they are more likely to be your potential "KPP's", because they don't have to be able to kick the footy as much, or necessarily as well as someone shorter, so it sounds like they will most likely be suited to playing a position like CHB, where they can use their height, strength and athleticism to advantage, while mostly following someone around. So we may think we can cover that base long term that way, as well as with hopefully someone like M Brown, plus Ferguson and Staley, depending on how they progress.

My only concern re the kiwi kids is that we'd be falling afoul of the same issue that afflicted a lot of teams, us included in the 00s, that is, drafting athletes and trying to make them footballers. That works sometime, like Croad or more recently Majak Daw, but it's the exception rather than the rule. I'd rather draft a footballer first.

As for the players you mention, Staley's been around a while and doesn't seem to be exciting all that many (although I hold out hope), I've not read anything to dissuade me from the impression that Ferg is a taller Gilbo (ie not a KP player) and I'd rather Hardy than Brown - better to have a dip on someone who's never had the shot, than someone who's had a few and, to this stage, failed with them. He's got a great player in front of him in Glass, but I just doubt he's our back line messiah.

 

[stkildathunda]

Staley has been better then Simpkin, Blake & Ferguson this year in defense for Sandy.

It's also only his 2nd year at club, talls take time.

 

[Barrels]

Staley has been better then Simpkin, Blake & Ferguson this year in defense for Sandy.

It's also only his 2nd year at club, talls take time.

My bad, I thought it was his third.

Great to hear if so. Still think a Hardy or similar would be great for depth.

 

[God Save Max King]

Jake Lever has been quite good in the TAC Cup. He's impressed me and has been one of the best players on the ground for the Cannons in a couple of their matches.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Staley has been better then Simpkin, Blake & Ferguson this year in defense for Sandy.

It's also only his 2nd year at club, talls take time.

Shhhhh! Its a secret.

As far as non-AFL players go, some work , some dont.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...for-the-long-run/story-e6frf9lo-1226624213132

My instinct tells me that these guys would need more specialised training than just chucking them in the VFL ( Sorry Tom Walsh ).
Rucks seem to be the most promising due to a shortage in freaks, er um really tall people, and being able to get by with a less rounded skill set.

Tom Hickey first played footy at 17 ( now 22) , but his background in a variety of sports ( basketball, rugby union, water polo, athletics and volleyball - mostly volleyball ) probably gives him an edge over a single game specialist. ( 17yo school footy , still 17yo played AFLQ u/18s 18yo represented Qld in under 18's and played seniors ironically against Spider and Trent Knobel in the Grand Final. 19 YO drafted into the AFL , 20 played first AFL game , 21 played 10 AFL games, 22 played AFL for a good team )

Ahmed Saad seems to have gone from a 16 year old soccer player to a very competant player in around 5 years. 5 years is probably too long for most people's patience.


I dont think the Kiwi's take up a spot from the regular rookie list, so its worth a punt. ( Dont know if the AFL are chipping in with any of the costs - but the AFL would be wanting it to happen ). Be patient, it could take 5 years. ( Majak took 5 years in the AFL system, Croad? ).

 

[hayes]

They'd chip in if we were based in Sydney.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

.

I don't know much about the draftees coming through, never do apart from the consensus top 5 when they're written about in the paper come draft time... but



I would have thought we'd need someone with a bigger kick in him?

Ha ha, my 2 year old can kick further than Hugh!!

 

[Defacto]

Staley has been better then Simpkin, Blake & Ferguson this year in defense for Sandy.

It's also only his 2nd year at club, talls take time.

how many games has ferguson played this year?

 

[CHBench]

It's funny reading the Dogs board, neither teams supporters are particularly fond of each others position.

 

[aussierulesrules]

It's funny reading the Dogs board, neither teams supporters are particularly fond of each others position.

While they may have some points (I haven't read it and don't plan to), in my experience of them, on BF at least, they are generally quite bitter about us.

Firstly, we beat them in consecutive prelims and many they think they were robbed by the umpiring in 2009 and secondly, it appears they generally thought that we were going to join them in being uncompetitive over the past couple of seasons, but so far have not, so I think they feel a bit cheated in that regard, as though we have to follow them around, for whatever reason and aren't.

I think it's best to ignore them on this sort of stuff, unless spoken to directly by one of them and maybe even then. They'll get over it soon enough.

 

[CHBench]

The lingering bitterness is outstanding, they were very very lucky to get as close as they did in 09. It was clear the GF teams in their PF years were a level above. Next week should be interesting!

 

[Barrels]

Veeeeerry bored at work, and casting a critical eye over our list; we can't predict the drafts etc, but on a hypotetheticals where we nab Brown under FA and magically snag Boyd in this year's draft this is what I see things potentially looking like (let's call it 2018 to make the ages more appropriate/safe for the delistings):

FB: Wright // Brown // Roberton
HB: Webster // Staley* // Dunell
CR: Newnes // Ross // Geary
RK: Hickey // Steven // Saunders
HF: Murdoch // White // Minchington
FF: Saad // Boyd // McEvoy
Int: Siposs - Armitage - Curren - Ledger

Left over: Markworth - Pierce - Shenton - Stanley - Ferguson - Lever - Simpkin

Retired/delisted/traded: Hayes - Milne - Riewoldt - Dal Santo - Montagna - Gilbert - Koschitzke - Dempster - Fisher - Jones - Maister - Ray - Schneider - TDL - Milera (think he wants to go anyway)

* Realistically IMO perhaps more suited to the role than Rhys.

This is a team that ain't going too deep into the post-season. It's clear we need KPD depth and some extra midfield quality, depth and class, and in any event it pre-supposes that all our rookies will be upgraded, which is simply not going to happen. However other questions arise to me;
1. where does this team leave Stanley and Simpkin?
2. what do we do with two very tall seeming flankers in Lever and Ferguson?
3. would McEvoy or Hickey still be preferred to Pierce by 2018?

 

[Barrels]

Forgot Tom Lee..

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Veeeeerry bored at work, and casting a critical eye over our list; we can't predict the drafts etc, but on a hypotetheticals where we nab Brown under FA and magically snag Boyd in this year's draft this is what I see things potentially looking like (let's call it 2018 to make the ages more appropriate/safe for the delistings):

FB: Wright // Brown // Roberton
HB: Webster // Staley* // Dunell
CR: Newnes // Ross // Geary
RK: Hickey // Steven // Saunders
HF: Murdoch // White // Minchington
FF: Saad // Boyd // McEvoy
Int: Siposs - Armitage - Curren - Ledger

Left over: Markworth - Pierce - Shenton - Stanley - Ferguson - Lever - Simpkin

Retired/delisted/traded: Hayes - Milne - Riewoldt - Dal Santo - Montagna - Gilbert - Koschitzke - Dempster - Fisher - Jones - Maister - Ray - Schneider - TDL - Milera (think he wants to go anyway)

* Realistically IMO perhaps more suited to the role than Rhys.

This is a team that ain't going too deep into the post-season. It's clear we need KPD depth and some extra midfield quality, depth and class, and in any event it pre-supposes that all our rookies will be upgraded, which is simply not going to happen. However other questions arise to me;
1. where does this team leave Stanley and Simpkin?
2. what do we do with two very tall seeming flankers in Lever and Ferguson?
3. would McEvoy or Hickey still be preferred to Pierce by 2018?

With Brown in the mix Stanley may be now more versatile to play as a rucking forward ( who can move back if required ) than either McEvoy or Hickey. Stanley has at times looked good as a forward, and as a back, and has matched it with Nicnat in the ruck.

Simpkin's fate may to be a backup VFL ruck, whether its at StKilda or another club. But who knows as he gets older he may continue to improve ( as some backman do and some dont ).

We simply cannot predict Lever in 5 years time. Hell , we dont even know if he'll be there next year.
Lever was always supposed to be able to play key back, and maybe he will some day.

To be honest I think your backline is a bit on the short side. Ferg would fit in nicely instead of one of Dunell, Webster or Wright. Hopefully some of them are good enough to play midfield to replace the aging Geary or Armitage ( both who could struggle with pace at the age of 29 ).

If all of Lever, Stanley, Pierce, and Hickey work out well, I'd say we'll be trading one. Its a good thing , ruckmen do well at the trade table.

It's a massive call to say that a player like Murdoch will be better than ( for example ) Markworth at this time. Markworth has huge potential.
Similarly a player's like Sam Dunell and Cam Shenton are already mature agers and may not really get much better than they are now. ( I'd be amazed if they both do ).

 

[Barrels]

Simpkin's fate may to be a backup VFL ruck, whether its at StKilda or another club. But who knows as he gets older he may continue to improve ( as some backman do and some dont ).

At 191cm?!

It's a massive call to say that a player like Murdoch will be better than ( for example ) Markworth at this time. Markworth has huge potential.
Similarly a player's like Sam Dunell and Cam Shenton are already mature agers and may not really get much better than they are now. ( I'd be amazed if they both do ).

The simple issue is that we've seen more of Murdoch at AFL level to this stage, and who knows what Markworth will be like post knee reco?

 

[Defacto]

At 191cm?!

The simple issue is that we've seen more of Murdoch at AFL level to this stage, and who knows what Markworth will be like post knee reco?

so many players lose their agility after a knee reco, this was one of markworths biggest assets. lets hope he comes back the same

 

[SaintsSeptember]

At 191cm?!

The simple issue is that we've seen more of Murdoch at AFL level to this stage, and who knows what Markworth will be like post knee reco?

Sorry I meant full back for Simpkin.

I've not seen enough of Murdoch apart from an 11 disposal average to expect that he'll be a 100 or 200 game player. I've seen just enough to judge that he isn't a complete spud.
Markworth still has a terrific upside.

Its like concluding at the end of 2008 that Charlie Gardiner and Robert Eddy had a bright future at StKilda while Ben McEvoy would struggle.

 

[Barrels]

Sorry I meant full back for Simpkin.

I've not seen enough of Murdoch apart from an 11 disposal average to expect that he'll be a 100 or 200 game player. I've seen just enough to judge that he isn't a complete spud.
Markworth still has a terrific upside.

Its like concluding at the end of 2008 that Charlie Gardiner and Robert Eddy had a bright future at StKilda while Ben McEvoy would struggle.

I wasn't concluding anything. But I can't put Markworth into a side or position until we see him play at the level. Apparently had shown plenty at Sandy and the amount of times he was named as an emergency seem to bear that out

 

[Manimal_Dunstan]

I wasn't concluding anything. But I can't put Markworth into a side or position until we see him play at the level. Apparently had shown plenty at Sandy and the amount of times he was named as an emergency seem to bear that out

Can't wait to see him.

 

[aussierulesrules]

1. where does this team leave Stanley and Simpkin?

With that team you've named I think Rhys would be ideally suited to the back pocket or "3rd tall" role that he had looked well suited to this year (when he hasn't been playing the no.1 role on the likes of Travis Cloke and at times Michael Hurley). That was the role I always thought he'd be best suited to down there (like what Dustin Fletcher has played in recent years) when we first heard he was being trained down back and I still very much think that's the case. Roberton would be best suited to the HBF role that he is playing so well now, I would think.

Since you forgot Lee and have added Boyd, I'll put Tom down in that role though and Rhys at CHB.

For mine it would be:

FB: Wright // Brown // Lee
HB: Murdoch // Stanley // Roberton
CR: Newnes // Ross // Webster
RK: Hickey // Steven // Saunders
HF: Siposs // White // Minchington
FF: Saad // Boyd // McEvoy
Int: Geary - Armitage - Curren - Ledger

Left over: Markworth - Dunell - Pierce - Shenton - Staley - Ferguson - Lever - Simpkin

I reckon that's likely to be a perfectly good team even if we weren't to add anyone in the trade/free agency/draft periods from 2013-2017 (especially like the forward line and quite happy with the look of the backline and centreline as well), so I look forward to seeing how it looks if/when we do!

It's a massive call to say that a player like Murdoch will be better than ( for example ) Markworth at this time. Markworth has huge potential.

Not to mention Siposs, who he has on the bench!

 

[hayes]

Why not:

FB: Geary Brown Webster
HB: Roberton CHB Dunell
C: Newnes Wright Murdoch
HF: Saunders Lee Siposs
FF: Saad White Stanley

R: Macca/Hickey Steven Ross

Int: Armitage Markworth Curren Ledger

Not ready to totally commit to Stanley in the backline yet, and ultimately I think we'll have to choose between Macca and Hickey because IMO they'll both be number ones. If Stanley moves to the backline permanently then maybe a spot open up so we can play both but I just don't ever see either of them being able to play forward well enough. Who knows, maybe Pierce develops and goes beyond both of them? Never know.

Stanley solves the issue of a forward/ruck.

Maybe Ferguson is eventually able to at least take the second tall down the line.

Curren did some tagging jobs last year and I'd like to see if he could do it at AFL level as well because that would get him in that team as there's no real other guys who can run with someone.

Siposs and Markworth to push up to a wing at times, with hopefully the inside mids winning enough contested ball to let the wingers do plenty with it. I thought Murdoch would eventually be a flanker, I now think he'll be a mid.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hard to find too much fault with that team. Stanley is clearly the best suited to that forward/ruck role at this stage, but I think the club are wary of his durability issues and as such want to keep him out of the ruck (hence going after Hickey and spending up big on him). If he showed that he was able to play ruck without breaking down in the future that would give us some more options.

 

[Defacto]

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2013-05-22/vfl-saunders-highlights

this kid is going to be something special. finally know who he reminds me of. gazza

 

[Baldur]

http://www.saints.com.au/video/2013-05-22/vfl-saunders-highlights

this kid is going to be something special. finally know who he reminds me of. gazza

Please oh footy gods let this be so.