Our forward structure

[76woodenspooners]

It's been long mentioned that we lack an effective crumbing forward, especially with Krakouer out.

We saw it yesterday - we kick it inside 50 to Cloke, Cloke brings it to ground in the wet and a Hawks defender comes in and takes it out of there for them.

So I got to thinking, why aren't Elliott or Sinclair effective crumbers?

And then I thought that maybe that's the way we want to set it up for Cloke? Our small forwards give him space to run into, they keep their defender away from the contest. But it means that if Cloke drops it (as happens more than not over the last two weeks in the wet) then there's none of our small forwards around to crumb and help him out.

Compare with Krakouer, he's not as mobile as Elliott or Sinclair. The only time he moves more than 20m from CHF is to join the huddle during the breaks. But it means that he's in a good crumbing position for any kick to the top of the square. And it helps that Krakouer can find space in a telephone box and knows where the goals are.

So, should we mix it up, occassionally give our power forwards less space to roam, but give our small forwards a chance at crumbing?

 

[DaVe86]

I think we look a lot better when Fasolo, Didak and Krakouer are in the team...and with a firing Macaffer.

Also think that with Beams and Ball, Sidebottom can play more forward. He is such a natural and clever crumber.

What I would like to see is an effective 3rd tall. The best option is probably Paine...although I think at his best Macaffer can make-shift in this role. Also, because Elliott and Fasolo can play as lead-ups...it does give us a few different elements up there.

The Hawks really shut down on Elliott. The kid will need some help as he will be a marked man going forward.

 

[sr36]

I was surprised by how well Elliot crumbed in the first half and how disciplined he was in terms of getting front and centre. I don't think that this was an issue yesterday at all. The problem was that we got murdered around the ball in the sceond half and had no decent supply at all.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Paine needs to nail more kicks at goal before he is considered for selection. As it is, we kick too many points which effects the confidence of the players. Cloke leads to the pocket too often, then cannot convert the chances he gets. Hawthorn's forwards operated in far more space than our guys and they converted the opportunities that came their way. We definitely need Krakouer in the team ASAP, because our current small forwards provide very little as crumbers.

 

[dansa]

I think we look a lot better when Fasolo, Didak and Krakouer are in the team...and with a firing Macaffer.

Also think that with Beams and Ball, Sidebottom can play more forward. He is such a natural and clever crumber.

What I would like to see is an effective 3rd tall. The best option is probably Paine...although I think at his best Macaffer can make-shift in this role. Also, because Elliott and Fasolo can play as lead-ups...it does give us a few different elements up there.

The Hawks really shut down on Elliott. The kid will need some help as he will be a marked man going forward.

I always pay attention to what you write Dave bc I think you have a really good understanding of our players and provide insightful analysis. But when was the last time you saw Didak, Krak and Macaffer 'firing' as you put it. Sure if we put in the 2010 version of those 3 players our side would look very dangerous but in 2013 they will be no more than fringe players & impact substitutes.

We are lucky to have fringe players of that quality but we need to look to the future if we want to win the flag.

 

[DaVe86]

I always pay attention to what you write Dave bc I think you have a really good understanding of our players and provide insightful analysis. But when was the last time you saw Didak, Krak and Macaffer 'firing' as you put it. Sure if we put in the 2010 version of those 3 players our side would look very dangerous but in 2013 they will be no more than fringe players & impact substitutes.

We are lucky to have fringe players of that quality but we need to look to the future if we want to win the flag.

Krakouer did kick 4 goals in a final last year (against Hawthorn!)...and Macaffer will bounce back, it will just take time.

But take your point that we probably have to start thinking beyond Didak and Krakouer considering their age and fitness levels.

I still think at worst, Krakouer and Didak demand quality opponents. THat frees up Elliott, Macaffer and co.

I think Fasolo is a missing spark. He is clean with the footy, a good mark and a good finisher in front of goals.

 

[Who_can_say]

I always pay attention to what you write Dave bc I think you have a really good understanding of our players and provide insightful analysis. But when was the last time you saw Didak, Krak and Macaffer 'firing' as you put it. Sure if we put in the 2010 version of those 3 players our side would look very dangerous but in 2013 they will be no more than fringe players & impact substitutes.

We are lucky to have fringe players of that quality but we need to look to the future if we want to win the flag.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[dansa]

Krakouer did kick 4 goals in a final last year (against Hawthorn!)...and Macaffer will bounce back, it will just take time.

But take your point that we probably have to start thinking beyond Didak and Krakouer considering their age and fitness levels.

I still think at worst, Krakouer and Didak demand quality opponents. THat frees up Elliott, Macaffer and co.

I think Fasolo is a missing spark. He is clean with the footy, a good mark and a good finisher in front of goals.

I would suggest Fasolo & Elliot take the first two small fwd spots, then one of (Sidebottom, Krak or Didak) takes the final small fwd spot. We really need to balance it out with a player with real pace like Mooney or Sinclair but neither is quite there yet.

The 3rd tall position is a little weaker right now Paine, Macaffer, Goldsack or even one of the new draftees are all in contention. No one really stands out - I'd go with Paine.

 

[Robroy22]

I'd like to see Fasolo directing play from the back line where his long quick, accurate delivery would be fantastic for the forwards to get onto. He's capable of delivering kick-ins like Guerra did to us yesterday! Beams, Pendlebury, Swan, Ball alternating through half forward as well as Elliot / Dwyer on the other flank gives the half forward line grunt and smarts as well as good finishing. The return of Ball and Beams releases our best "crumbers" (Sidebottom and Blair) to get at Clokes feet and to score goals from defensive pressure. The return of Ball and Beams is vital for our forward line crumbing because it releases the best crumbers from their midfield duties.

 

[Knightmare]

I was surprised by how well Elliot crumbed in the first half and how disciplined he was in terms of getting front and centre. I don't think that this was an issue yesterday at all. The problem was that we got murdered around the ball in the sceond half and had no decent supply at all.

This is largely how I saw the game also.

Elliott has the smarts to get to the right positions and was. Early he snuck out the back and found space to get those easy goals but he also has the smarts to know when to crumb and when not to crumb.

Really after quarter time I just didn't see enough effort and quarter by quarter we just died off as a team.

Q1. We had more numbers around the footy and our play was incredibly impressive.
Q2. Reasonable but no longer had that advantage around the ball.
Q3. Some individuals started to lose that energy.
Q4. As a team too many players had given up entirely with few still going for it.

As a forward you are only as good as your delivery and it really dried up quick for Elliott and co with Cloke that main target after quarter time with his clear matchup superiority on the very ordinary Shoenmakers the one we really chose to isolate with Elliott's main purpose really after that first quarter being as a pressuring forward first - along with Sinclair and Goldsack when played forward.

 

[collwood]

Kicking 13 goals for the game wasn't THAT bad. It was the 22 that we allowed the other team to kick that we should be really worried about.

I think this indicates some issues in our defence, but probably even more so in our midfield which allowed it to get down there so often.

 

[Green Eggs]

I always pay attention to what you write Dave bc I think you have a really good understanding of our players and provide insightful analysis. But when was the last time you saw Didak, Krak and Macaffer 'firing' as you put it. Sure if we put in the 2010 version of those 3 players our side would look very dangerous but in 2013 they will be no more than fringe players & impact substitutes.

I understand your thinking with this, but I think Dids and Krak are far more important to our team than people think at the moment. Didak is such a creative and intuitive play-maker, and solely as a play-maker coming off HFF - I don't think we have anyone who can match his creativity.

Krak I do see as someone who would be a sub depending on who we're up against, but I think his awareness around goal is way too good to be just a fringe player, he is an igniter and someone who can single-handedly create excitement and momentum.

I understand we need balance in our forward line but I don't see why we couldn't play something like:

Fasolo/Elliott Lynch Didak
Krakour Cloke Macaffer/Paine

Pending fitness and opposition, I think this would be ideal. I guess I'm not a coach, but I think on paper that looks like a dangerous combo, with players that can play further up the ground aswell.

 

[entourage]

Kicking 13 goals for the game wasn't THAT bad. It was the 22 that we allowed the other team to kick that we should be really worried about.

I think this indicates some issues in our defence, but probably even more so in our midfield which allowed it to get down there so often.

I agree in principle but they only had 7 more inside 50's than us, our defence was letting them convert far to highly and I think it all began to fall apart after Reid's injury. I thought it was his ACL so I was ecstatic to see him come back on from that perspective, but he clearly wasn't quite right.

I place the least blame on the forward structure on this one.

 

[Jelly Bean]

I think we look a lot better when Fasolo, Didak and Krakouer are in the team...and with a firing Macaffer.

Also think that with Beams and Ball, Sidebottom can play more forward. He is such a natural and clever crumber.

What I would like to see is an effective 3rd tall. The best option is probably Paine...although I think at his best Macaffer can make-shift in this role. Also, because Elliott and Fasolo can play as lead-ups...it does give us a few different elements up there.

The Hawks really shut down on Elliott. The kid will need some help as he will be a marked man going forward.

I agreee on Fasolo, Didak, and Krak, but think people need to get over Macaffer. Granted he played a good half year in 2010, but is not currently best 22. In my opinion, he is clearly behind Goldsack (as his most like-for-like comparison) in terms of value to the team in the 22.

Elliott is definitely crumbing better this year than last, but also threatening in the air. Certainty for a small forward spot. For balance, I think we need a Krakouer type playing deep with Cloke to convert those half chances. Dids and Fas playing further upfield to set up into our forwardline. It was good to see Fas playing in the centre square a bit as well on Saturday, and looking good. Sidebottom, Beams, Swan to rotate through the forwardline at times as well, and I think Goldy takes that last spot (ahead of Caff and Paine) for his defensive pressure and versatility.

 

[Bloben]

I think it was definitely our defensive structure that let us down on Sunday. The percentage of forward 50 entries to scoring shots was far too high and the main area that should be looked at.

Goes to show the importance of Maxwell in leading the defensive group IMO.

 

[Maggie5]

I think we look a lot better when Fasolo, Didak and Krakouer are in the team...and with a firing Macaffer.

Also think that with Beams and Ball, Sidebottom can play more forward. He is such a natural and clever crumber.

What I would like to see is an effective 3rd tall. The best option is probably Paine...although I think at his best Macaffer can make-shift in this role. Also, because Elliott and Fasolo can play as lead-ups...it does give us a few different elements up there.

The Hawks really shut down on Elliott. The kid will need some help as he will be a marked man going forward.

Agree, also I think that we missed Macaffer on Saturday, he is harder at the ball and a with a stronger body may have been better that Sinclair against the Hawks. Also when we have a more players available, the forward set up will look differently. Especially with a match fit Thomas, Fasolo and either Didak or Krakouer.
Can't wait for a full list to choose from (if possible with our luck).

 

[SpongePie]

Cant wait to see Krak and Dids back. I think if Dids can stay uninjured, then his accuracy and ability to create goals is fantastic (sinclair could learn to kick from him...).
As for Krak, he is just so dangerous, and his ability to create a goal from nothing is amazing.

 

[loki04]

I think it was definitely our defensive structure that let us down on Sunday. The percentage of forward 50 entries to scoring shots was far too high and the main area that should be looked at.

Goes to show the importance of Maxwell in leading the defensive group IMO.

It is more the difference in footskills, Hawks hit up targets rarely do you find them just 'bombing' the footy like we do to Cloke.

We expect miracles of Cloke who often has to contend with not only his opponent but a secondary loose man due to how our mids move the ball, they rarely ever kick to advantage or to space for Cloke to lead on to. He is often under a ball which allows the 3rd man in to just knock it away then they have cumbers set up around the contest ready to sweep it away.

As good as buddy is he gets very good service from his midfield and so most the hawks forwards.

In summary FWD 50 entries mean nought if they are scrub entries that don't give your team best chances of retaining the footy or a scoring shot, the type of entry is more important then number.

 

[PieNSauce]

I agreee on Fasolo, Didak, and Krak, but think people need to get over Macaffer. Granted he played a good half year in 2010, but is not currently best 22. In my opinion, he is clearly behind Goldsack (as his most like-for-like comparison) in terms of value to the team in the 22.

I'm totally unconvinced that Macaffer is behind Goldsack when fit and in form. Granted right now he's a fair way off the mark but he has much cleaner hands that Goldy and has proven he is a very strong contested mark. I've watched Goldsack fairly closely over the years and I always have this little niggle in the back of my mind when I see him go to a contest that he will fumble a critical ball. I saw it a couple of times on the weekend as I have many times before and while I wouldn't want to bag the guy, it just plays on my mind. Goldy also disappoints me at times in terms of his lack of creativity. Whilst he is not alone in this, if you watch him in a contest near the boundary line, even in the forward line he is almost always looking for the line rather than for a creative play inside. To me it can be a momentum killer or at least a lost opportunity and some of our more creative players are far more aware of alternative options in similar situations. Naturally all of this is null and void if Caff can't regain his previous form but I am one who believes that he needs to be given every chance to do just that.

 

[sr36]

In terms of our forward structure, I think that we've been significantly better this year. My only real beef is the way that we set up at centre bounces. All last year and early this year, our default play from stoppages has been the blind kick down the guts to about 45-50 metres out. When this occurs we are invariably outnumbered 3 to 1, with the 1 being Sinclair. It's frustrating as hell.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Our forward structure needs forwards that can kick goals. Too many defensive players in the forward line for this too happen. Real danger forwards that have played this season are Cloke and Elliott (and he only just became a decent threat), Q-Stick we can only rely on for one or two a game max. Guys like Goldsack, Sinclair and Macaffer just aren't offering enough at this stage. Hopefully we catch a break from injury and bring back a few dangerous targets.

 

[rand corp]

Paine has real potential, he is very good overhead, decent pace for his size, very good reaction time and second and third efforts at ground level, his set shot is errant at the moment. He is NQRY.

As to crumbers, Elliot is going to be a fine footballer for the club and is showing plenty already, Sinclair let's us down and it remains to be seen whether or not he is going to make it.

Daisy is effective when he gets forward and can be a decent crumber as well as his overhead skills and pace.
Swan is clever when he gets forward.

Krak if he can get himself fit is dangerous and clever but not overly quick.

Fasolo is clever, very good overhead and on the lead and is a great set shot but, he is slow and will never have dash.

Dwyer is the guy that is quick and smart and can rove packs but he needs time to settle and gain consistency at this level.

Blair is hard and tough and can bob up for a goal but he is also not overly quick and more inside hard nut than dashing crumber.

Mooney is another who, if he can learn to read the game well, has lightning pace and could be an excellent crumbing goal kicker.

 

[sr36]

Paine has real potential, he is very good overhead, decent pace for his size, very good reaction time and second and third efforts at ground level, his set shot is errant at the moment. He is NQRY.

As to crumbers, Elliot is going to be a fine footballer for the club and is showing plenty already, Sinclair let's us down and it remains to be seen whether or not he is going to make it.

Daisy is effective when he gets forward and can be a decent crumber as well as his overhead skills and pace.
Swan is clever when he gets forward.

Krak if he can get himself fit is dangerous and clever but not overly quick.

Fasolo is clever, very good overhead and on the lead and is a great set shot but, he is slow and will never have dash.

Dwyer is the guy that is quick and smart and can rove packs but he needs time to settle and gain consistency at this level.

Blair is hard and tough and can bob up for a goal but he is also not overly quick and more inside hard nut than dashing crumber.

Mooney is another who, if he can learn to read the game well, has lightning pace and could be an excellent crumbing goal kicker.

I agree with all of this. I'd also add Sidebottom in with a similar description to Swan.

 

[Pera]

Kicking 13 goals for the game wasn't THAT bad. It was the 22 that we allowed the other team to kick that we should be really worried about.

I think this indicates some issues in our defence, but probably even more so in our midfield which allowed it to get down there so often.

Precisely.

Our forward structure is dangerous and will only get better as the season goes on.

On the contrary, we let Hawthorn have 35 scoring shots from under 60 I50's. An alarming statistic if you ask me.