Analysis Our Game Plan - Detailed Discussion Only

[MarkP]

I think with calm, clean skills, the gameplay would look a bit better. Too many rushed, sloppy dispels breaks down any setups.

That's the issue though.

Is it our skills that ruin the gameplan or the gameplan that ruins our skills?

I subscribe to column B. That in reality is what we are all arguing about in my books. I think we have a great list of AFL footballers that all have inherent skill to play the game and do the basics. The gameplan as coached creates decisions that mask the skills or make them irrelevant. And there is little to no consequence for poor skill repetition apart from funny faces in the box, some swearing and hiding from the camera.

 

[The King!]

That's the issue though.

Is it our skills that ruin the gameplan or the gameplan that ruins our skills?

I subscribe to column B. That in reality is what we are all arguing about in my books. I think we have a great list of AFL footballers that all have inherent skill to play the game and do the basics. The gameplan as coached creates decisions that mask the skills or make them irrelevant. And there is little to no consequence for poor skill repetition apart from funny faces in the box, some swearing and hiding from the camera.

Exhibit a to support your theory is our use of arguably our biggest star

Our gameplan makes Buddys job harder than it should be

 

[Tedeski]

No gameplan would help when your star player turns up to games fat & unfit both physically & mentally!

 

[RUNVS]

No gameplan would help when your star player turns up to games fat & unfit both physically & mentally!

Who are you referring to?

 

[GotTheGoodes]

No gameplan would help when your star player turns up to games fat & unfit both physically & mentally!

Wha? Bud? Fat? Unfit? I don't agree if so... That's a very long bow to draw as wellas some players naturally need an actual break over off seasons and by the time round 1 is rolling they're back as fit as ever. Other blokes do' yo-yo as much and need to maintain their fitness level as it's harder to get back to their best...

 

[Tedeski]

Buddy was well overweight last year & as it turned out by year's end, wasn't in any frame of mind to be concerned about a gamplan, good or bad!

That can't be the fault of every other member of the team, be it coach or player.

 

[kneecapper]

I'll hold off on a detailed analysis of our gameplan until the season proper starts. It's tough to judge based on a couple of NAB games where there was a lot of experimentation going on with structures. We did put in a few impressive high scoring performances at the back end of last year, albeit against lesser opponents and without Franklin (which itself might be an indicator that we are too "Franklin-focused" going forward and the move to play him further up the ground is designed to address that myopia).

One main area I would like to see addressed is a stronger emphasis on man-on-man attack and defence. Make each player directly accountable for their opponent. If the opposition wants to go negative and drop an additional player back we should go on the front foot and put an additional player forward and back our two-way running and contested ball winning abilities. I also think this style of play works best against teams that rely on precision and uncontested possessions to move the ball down the ground.

 

[kneecapper]

Buddy was well overweight last year & as it turned out by year's end, wasn't in any frame of mind to be concerned about a gamplan, good or bad!

That can't be the fault of every other member of the team, be it coach or player.

Source?

From what I could tell, he was having genuine back issues that caused him to arch his back unnaturally and emphasised his stomach. It was particularly evident in the Adelaide game.

 

[Tedeski]

Source?

From what I could tell, he was having genuine back issues that caused him to arch his back unnaturally and emphasised his stomach. It was particularly evident in the Adelaide game.

Source?

Game day!

 

[GotTheGoodes]

Buddy was well overweight last year & as it turned out by year's end, wasn't in any frame of mind to be concerned about a gamplan, good or bad!

That can't be the fault of every other member of the team, be it coach or player.

As kneecapper said above, Bud had a crook back mid season that he was managing and his posture was impacted. Even excluding this, I still don't agree with you. He is naturally a big boy but a billion lightyears away from labels such as "fat" and "unfit".... He'd outrun nearly every single other guy his size in the AFL at the moment IMO. That's right before he'd lay yet another hard hitting tackle/bump, crumb/gather the loose ball, fake out a few opponents, break a tackle or two and snap a classy goal or roost one back 60-70 metres.... Unfit? FAT!? ... I think not.

 

[Tedeski]

As kneecapper said above, Bud had a crook back mid season that he was managing and his posture was impacted. Even excluding this, I still don't agree with you. He is naturally a big boy but a billion lightyears away from labels such as "fat" and "unfit".... He'd outrun nearly every single other guy his size in the AFL at the moment IMO. That's right before he'd lay yet another hard hitting tackle/bump, crumb/gather the loose ball, fake out a few opponents, break a tackle or two and snap a classy goal or roost one back 60-70 metres.... Unfit? FAT!? ... I think not.

Fair enough.
I say he started 2015 a little plump!

 

[kickthething]

I am in the it's too early camp, 12 months ago we came off a loss to GWS to serve up one of the performances of the year against Port. I am not thrilled with our perceived skill level and like everyone have become frustrated with our bomb it long, the rest will look after itself style.

My very detailed analysis is accountability in defence and lower the eyes in attack.

I would love to see us take it on a bit this week, eliminate 1 handball from each chain, take on responsibility to kick the goal if you are in range and get back in defence and help out..........oh, and also......learn to set up for kick ins........

Finally, is Allir Allir in our plans? I thought we would see him this week.

Over and out.

 

[swansfan51]

Fair enough.
I say he started 2015 a little plump!

IMO it is entirely fair to hold Franklin to a higher standard than other players, considering he takes up over 10% of the salary cap on his own

 

[The King!]

IMO it is entirely fair to hold Franklin to a higher standard than other players, considering he takes up over 10% of the salary cap on his own

And also the people who signed him to an unheard of deal

 

[Troystenvic]

Here is my 2 cents.

Tippett out of the goal square when not rucking and Buddy dropping back there when he is. Buddy to roam the arc and going no further out than 70 from the sticks at ANY time. We have a fair midfield and I would leave Heeney crumbing in the 50 with Paps or benny.

Parker knows how to find the goals and could probably rotate through the middle with Kizz dropping back for a rest in the 50. Reid can play a rolling player between the two 50s. He has proved he can play both back and forward and WHEN he clunks marks could be a good to have roaming around the place.

Not sure if Mills can play on a wing but start him there and see how he goes.

A clearly dysfunctional forward line puts pressure on the backline. Buddy and Tippett NEED to stay at home. Let the opposition play to the beat of our drum.

I wish I had the answers....

The biggest thing we can do is....

STOP BOMBING INSIDE 50

Both Tippett and Bud are good one on one, get Tippett leading hard and dob it on his chest lace out. (The issue is kicking skills from the mids)

2012 we wouldn't just blind kick it into 50 we would hit a player up. Why we have recently decided to kick and hope and its very very very frustrating.

Mids need to kick goals, we need to go back to 2012 when we had 10 -11 goal kickers a game not 10 goals for the whole frigging game like the last 2 years.

Ill stop waffling now.

 

[Tedeski]

And also the people who signed him to an unheard of deal

From top to bottom, the whole club is responsible as a team for the decisions that are made. When one party starts to blame another, then there are divisions & the next step is failure. I'm not saying everything is hunky dory but until now, we have had a strong club. Buddy will be OK.

How about Gordon at the Doggies?
Boyd on $1M a year to play seconds. Ouch! That will end in tears.
Only 7 years to go with Buddy!

 

[RUNVS]

Looking over 2012 our best ball users were

1. Richards
2. Grundy
3. Seaby
4. Smith
5. White
6. Armstrong
7. Shaw
8. Mumford
9. Malceski
10. Pyke
11. Mattner
12. Johnson
13. Everitt
14. McVeigh
15. Parker
16. Bird
17. Jetta
18. Bolton
19. Walsh
20. Roberts-Thomson
21. Hannebery
22. Rohan
23. O'Keefe
24. Morton
25. Reid
26. Dennis-Lane
27. Goodes
28. Kennedy
29. Jack
30. McGlynn

So of our best 20 players in disposal efficiency in 2012 15 are no longer there but of our worst 20 players (inside the top 30) 8 are still there. So we have essentially hung onto the guys who can't dispose of the ball correctly and lost the guys who can.

 

[robbieando]

Looking over 2012 our best ball users were

1. Richards
2. Grundy
3. Seaby
4. Smith
5. White
6. Armstrong
7. Shaw
8. Mumford
9. Malceski
10. Pyke
11. Mattner
12. Johnson
13. Everitt
14. McVeigh
15. Parker
16. Bird
17. Jetta
18. Bolton
19. Walsh
20. Roberts-Thomson
21. Hannebery
22. Rohan
23. O'Keefe
24. Morton
25. Reid
26. Dennis-Lane
27. Goodes
28. Kennedy
29. Jack
30. McGlynn

So of our best 20 players in disposal efficiency in 2012 15 are no longer there but of our worst 20 players (inside the top 30) 8 are still there. So we have essentially hung onto the guys who can't dispose of the ball correctly and lost the guys who can.

More proof that disposal efficiency is a junk stat. Worst example of selective bias I've ever seen.

 

[RUNVS]

More proof that disposal efficiency is a junk stat. Worst example of selective bias I've ever seen.

See I disagree as overall it is a pretty good indicator of ladder position

In 2015

1. Hawthorn - 76.1
2. Geelong Cats - 74.5
3. Fremantle - 74.3
4. Essendon - 73.7
4. GWS Giants - 73.7
6. Western Bulldogs - 73.5
7. North Melbourne - 73.4
8. St Kilda - 73.3
8. Sydney Swans - 73.3
10. Richmond - 73.2
11. West Coast Eagles - 73.1
12. Melbourne - 72.4
12. Carlton - 72.4
14. Brisbane Lions - 72.2
15. Port Adelaide - 72.1
16. Collingwood - 71.8
17. Adelaide Crows - 70.3
18. Gold Coast Suns - 69.2

I mean that is not exactly what happened with the ladder but it is more right than wrong and it fits in well with clangers, which are mistakes that are really bad

1. Port Adelaide - 50.1
2. Gold Coast Suns - 49.4
2. Adelaide Crows - 49.4
4. St Kilda - 49.2
5. Essendon - 49
6. Sydney Swans - 48.2
7. Brisbane Lions - 48
8. Geelong Cats - 46.4
9. GWS Giants - 46.3
10. North Melbourne - 46.2
11. Carlton - 46.1
12. Collingwood - 46
13. Richmond - 45.8
14. Hawthorn - 44.2
15. Western Bulldogs - 44.1
16. Melbourne - 43.8
16. Fremantle - 43.8
18. West Coast Eagles - 40.7

We are doing 10% more clangers per match than Hawthorn which is quite a bit.

 

[robbieando]

Both don't relate to ladder position when four teams in the Top 8 for DE didn't even make the finals (and yes I know it was a tie for 8th)

They do show that we are behind the Hawks in use of the football. But it also shows we are behind GWS, Geelong and Western Bulldogs in use of the football as well which our ladder position last year didn't show that Hawthorn did and Fremantle who play in a similar way to us also did.

All in all your picking out stats to suit your argument, when more are needed to completely prove something that is known (that Hawthorn is a better kicking team than us). That is fundamentally wrong from a statistical point of view.

 

[GotTheGoodes]

That's the issue though.

Is it our skills that ruin the gameplan or the gameplan that ruins our skills?

I subscribe to column B. That in reality is what we are all arguing about in my books. I think we have a great list of AFL footballers that all have inherent skill to play the game and do the basics. The gameplan as coached creates decisions that mask the skills or make them irrelevant. And there is little to no consequence for poor skill repetition apart from funny faces in the box, some swearing and hiding from the camera.

It's the old argument of who to blame, the players or coaches.

From my point of view this varies and flows throughout the season. Some games I'm flabberghasted by some obvious coaching (e.g. players picked, where they line up etc). Other times I feel the coaches are asking something of a player who is expected to be capable but doesn't deliver. Other times it's flatout player laziness or under-preperation I'm sure.

At the end of the day we aren't privy to the tasks/instructions given & what portion of fault extends to player or coach. What we should be comfortable about is that every bloke that is there on match day is there to win & will do what they think is required to win.

I agree tho, our coaches & players need to be more quick to adapt. The most common frustration of mine is stubborness in not adapting & changing until it's too late (if at all).

 

[replicant]

See I disagree as overall it is a pretty good indicator of ladder position

In 2015

1. Hawthorn - 76.1
2. Geelong Cats - 74.5
3. Fremantle - 74.3
4. Essendon - 73.7
4. GWS Giants - 73.7
6. Western Bulldogs - 73.5
7. North Melbourne - 73.4
8. St Kilda - 73.3
8. Sydney Swans - 73.3
10. Richmond - 73.2
11. West Coast Eagles - 73.1
12. Melbourne - 72.4
12. Carlton - 72.4
14. Brisbane Lions - 72.2
15. Port Adelaide - 72.1
16. Collingwood - 71.8
17. Adelaide Crows - 70.3
18. Gold Coast Suns - 69.2

I mean that is not exactly what happened with the ladder but it is more right than wrong and it fits in well with clangers, which are mistakes that are really bad

Sorry, statistically there is ZERO correlation there. Two near the top, one near the bottom, a bunch in the middle, and that's the top 8. It's not "more right than wrong", it's just wrong.

 

[PVF]

Opponents Disposal Efficiency

1. Carlton - 75.6
2. St.Kilda - 74
3. Western Bulldogs - 73.8
4. West Coast - 73.6
5. Brisbane - 73.5
6. Fremantle - 73.4
7. Gold Coast - 73.2
8. GWS - 73.1

9. Melbourne - 73
10. Adelaide - 72.9
11. Collingwood - 72.8
12. Kangaroos - 72.8
13. Essendon - 72.7
14. Richmond - 72.7
15. Geelong - 72.6
16. Hawthorn - 72.5
17. Sydney - 70.9
18. Port Adelaide - 70.8

 

[Tedeski]

Gameplan is A OK!

 

[RUNVS]

Gameplan is A OK!

SO far it is definitely working. I am going to wait though to see how our defence holds up against a really good forward line but if we pass that test I am officially going to get excited.