Our improved Back Half

[Bojangles17]

Much of our 2008 progress will depend on this lot, for mine we will step out in R1 with a far stronger defence than last couple of seasons. The key is the balance of G&D, Run, height and class

Kingy....great little player , wins plenty of the pill , takes on opponents and has neat disposal

Thursty...Has the cat like relfex that made Gas an AA defender with a few other tricks to his kitbag in run and solid skills..No1 pick for FB will push his oppoenet far and wide to get their share of marks

McGuane...Tall, good mark and plenty of G&D, was showing prmosing signs at tail end of 2007 that he can be a reg senior player

McMahon...Adds run and crisp delivery to the back half, blends in well with this group

Moore...Im punting that this guy will continue to imrpove..similar to Mcguane with better disposal...there are a couple of other options However KM will get first crack

Bowden...a versatile defender, can run /carry or play defensively in a KP..generally has crisp disposal

With this group on the park we will avoid the brain fades that the lesser lights in JON and silvestor showed up in the NAB cup. ...with a few weeks to go Im hoping that Mcguane can come up as thursty is already back

a couple of others that could find there way down back are Tucky, Johnson Morton however the above 6 should be the A team

Eat'em Alive

 

[Madtiger2006]

You forgot about CHB options Polak, Schultz, Rance, Reiwoldt, Hughes

 

[Bojangles17]

You forgot about CHB options Polak, Schultz, Rance, Reiwoldt, Hughes

they weren't forgotten MT, just not first options...I reckon Moore will get first crack at it...Polak will get his chance in F50...sarge will prob be picked on bench...the others will get their chances as the season unfolds I am sure

 

[Rayzorwire]

I think we're more likely to use Schulz forward if we keep him beyond this year, and there's still big question marks over Polak as a key defender or a key forward - just as there was when he arrived. He may end up being a tall utility who gets moved wherever it suits the weekly gameplan - including to Coburg.

Neither Moore or McGuane strikes me as a CHB, though I acknowledge that may change over time. If CHB doesn't suit them, there's room for one of them as a third tall, or even both with one as a defensive small.

Which leaves us option C - using mostly Bowden still at CHB and grooming Rance to take over from him, with perhaps even Tuck filling any gap which eventuates.

King is bound for the midfield sooner rather than later. We can't afford the luxury of playing a hard nut with good pace, good ball winning ability and reasonable disposal in the back pocket.

 

[IDGAF]

..sarge will prob be picked on bench...

........... at Coburg

 

[Bojangles17]

I think we're more likely to use Schulz forward if we keep him beyond this year, and there's still big question marks over Polak as a key defender or a key forward - just as there was when he arrived. He may end up being a tall utility who gets moved wherever it suits the weekly gameplan - including to Coburg.

Neither Moore or McGuane strikes me as a CHB, though I acknowledge that may change over time. If CHB doesn't suit them, there's room for one of them as a third tall, or even both with one as a defensive small.

Which leaves us option C - using mostly Bowden still at CHB and grooming Rance to take over from him, with perhaps even Tuck filling any gap which eventuates.

King is bound for the midfield sooner rather than later. We can't afford the luxury of playing a hard nut with good pace, good ball winning ability and reasonable disposal in the back pocket.

I think it was weaver that made the point a while ago that Key forwrds have changed ...No longer do we see the likes of Lockett at FF, more the rangy franklin types...which dictates the type of key defenders needed in the modern game...Thursty, Mcguane and Moore fit the mould, improvement is required however they are the right profile of player...I disagree about Kingy pushing up....He will prove to be a real asset down back...he runs, takes them on and delivers well...Leave hime there

 

[CoggaRules]

You forgot about CHB options Polak, Schultz, Rance, Reiwoldt, Hughes

yeah and you forgot the best option, Richo.

 

[duckboy]

B: King Thursfield Newman - This line picks itself
HB: McMahon Bowden - are a lock. The other HBF or possibly 3rd tall is the big question mark. Could be anyone from Polak, Moore McGuane as the 3rd tall to Deledio, Morton, Johnson, Tuck, Polo etc as another attacking runner.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I think it was weaver that made the point a while ago that Key forwrds have changed ...No longer do we see the likes of Lockett at FF, more the rangy franklin types...which dictates the type of key defenders needed in the modern game...Thursty, Mcguane and Moore fit the mould, improvement is required however they are the right profile of player...

Yeah, I agree with that sentiment and I think Thursfield is good enough, but I still have question marks on Moore, McGuane, Polak and Schulz as CHB's. I'm far more confident about Rance claiming CHB long term...to me the only question is from who. It may well turn out to be Bowden after he retires.

I disagree about Kingy pushing up....He will prove to be a real asset down back...he runs, takes them on and delivers well...Leave hime there

Precisely why he's more needed in the centre where games are won. Ideally we'd have a few more of his type to fill several holes.

 

[Wally Matera]

I think we're more likely to use Schulz forward if we keep him beyond this year, and there's still big question marks over Polak as a key defender or a key forward - just as there was when he arrived. He may end up being a tall utility who gets moved wherever it suits the weekly gameplan - including to Coburg.

Neither Moore or McGuane strikes me as a CHB, though I acknowledge that may change over time. If CHB doesn't suit them, there's room for one of them as a third tall, or even both with one as a defensive small.

Which leaves us option C - using mostly Bowden still at CHB and grooming Rance to take over from him, with perhaps even Tuck filling any gap which eventuates.

King is bound for the midfield sooner rather than later. We can't afford the luxury of playing a hard nut with good pace, good ball winning ability and reasonable disposal in the back pocket.

There you go... finally a great post. Couldnt agree with you more - glad you're starting with Bowden in your best 6 backmen.

Even a cut-price London rent boy who is comfortably quite successful can pat a wank on the back every now and then.

 

[Rayzorwire]

You'd probably agree with me a lot more if you didn't have such an epic struggle with comprehension and a knee-jerk tendancy towards abuse Wally.

I've never said Bowden isn't our best current option at CHB, and in my 'team of the 21st century' post I merely said that at his best in 2001, Holland was just as serviceable at CHB, while Bowden's biggest asset is that he can play almost anywhere on the ground.

AFL lineups aren't like picking u/12 sides where the worst players are stuck on the bench and hopefully used sparingly. Starting on the bench at AFL level in a good side can easily mean you're the 'Mr Fix It' utility who the coach can depend on early in a match to get results in parts of the ground where we're getting beaten. Which, as I explained to you, was exactly what I intended.

 

[tigertiger]

I still think that kingy should be played in the middle long term, he is handy in a weak backline but I think long term his best place is in the middle. Really knows how to get the ball and is hard as nails.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

King and Newman to share the BP>>>>Mid Roles.

Simmo/Newman/Foley
Patto/Tuck/king

 

[krustyman]

im not convinced about mcmahon being good for the backline.

 

[Bojangles17]

King and Newman to share the BP>>>>Mid Roles.

Simmo/Newman/Foley
Patto/Tuck/king

Newman will be in Pt II of my series

Much improved midfield...Newy is a born midfielder, hard at it, nice finisher wins the pill and p_iss poor defensive skills...so FFS keep him away from the BP..reality is thatwhilst Newy looked good at times racking up the pill in back half his opponent was generally also doing quite nicely TY..slotting 3-4 majors on an all too frequent basis..

Starting centreman from R1

 

[roostertalk]

Newman will be in Pt II of my series

Much improved midfield...Newy is a born midfielder, hard at it, nice finisher wins the pill and p_iss poor defensive skills...so FFS keep him away from the BP..reality is thatwhilst Newy looked good at times racking up the pill in back half his opponent was generally also doing quite nicely TY..slotting 3-4 majors on an all too frequent basis..

Starting centreman from R1

hallelujah!!!!

Some posters starting to see the light!

 

[RECORDS!]

Newman will be in Pt II of my series

Much improved midfield...Newy is a born midfielder, hard at it, nice finisher wins the pill and p_iss poor defensive skills...so FFS keep him away from the BP..reality is thatwhilst Newy looked good at times racking up the pill in back half his opponent was generally also doing quite nicely TY..slotting 3-4 majors on an all too frequent basis..

Starting centreman from R1

So so true Mr Bojangles. Have been trying to tell my mates this for years.Newy gets let off the hook a bit by our supporters for how poor he can be defensively. I have been watching Chris play since he was 9 and he has always been an absolute ball magnet when in the midfield. I just can not believe he has not been given a greater opportunity in the middle.

 

[bigstyletiger]

I definately think that King is well suited to a back pocket. He is fast enough and disciplined enough to beat the best small forwards in the comp and his running and disposal is a key part to our game plan. As is Jordan McMahon's run and left foot. Im not worried about the personel we currently have in their, im more worried about the lack of a week in week out CHB. I'd like to see Shulz or Polak placed their for at least half a season to see how they go. Let someone grow into the position. Wallace is driving me crazy with his indicision. And what is tuck doing back there. Who's going to win a clearance apart from foley if he is in the back line? We need his strong body in the middle when the ball is bounced otherwise sides like geelong will throw us around like rag dolls.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Newman will be in Pt II of my series

Much improved midfield...Newy is a born midfielder, hard at it, nice finisher wins the pill and p_iss poor defensive skills...so FFS keep him away from the BP..reality is thatwhilst Newy looked good at times racking up the pill in back half his opponent was generally also doing quite nicely TY..slotting 3-4 majors on an all too frequent basis..

Starting centreman from R1

Disagree,s to a point in regards to defensive skills.Newy is a creator.How many times has he been caught out of position because his teamate has let him and the team down by turning the ball over.
Newman in the BP isnt the problem.

 

[davemills]

I think it was weaver that made the point a while ago that Key forwrds have changed ...No longer do we see the likes of Lockett at FF, more the rangy franklin types...which dictates the type of key defenders needed in the modern game...Thursty, Mcguane and Moore fit the mould, improvement is required however they are the right profile of player...I disagree about Kingy pushing up....He will prove to be a real asset down back...he runs, takes them on and delivers well...Leave hime there

That is a percieved trend and I think it's a bit misleading and also not a good indication of what type of defender will be required in the future.

Some examples (against that percieved trend):
St Kilda - With the addition of King and the return to fitness of Gardiner will likely see Koschitzke played up forward with Gehrig and Riewoldt. They have a potentially MASSIVE forward strucure that most teams can not contend with size wise.
Brisbane - J.Brown - not exactly a small fella.
Essendon - Lloyd (and others with good size, lucas etc) (luckily the rest of their team is fair at best)
Geelong - Tom Hawkins - emerging BIG star - possibly Locket'esque.

Also, if you look back at the leading Goal Kickers of the last 30 years, you will notice a real mixed bag of sizes. Dunstall, Locket, Beasley, Roach, BT, Ablett, Quinlan, Longmire,Blight, Templeton, Hudson, Modra, Cummings, Nietz, Gehrig, Fevola, Brown.

Ie. not much has changed size wise. I think it's more that flooding makes it harder for the forwards to kick huge bags of goals on their own. So to win you generally require more team efforts. But that said, the big guys will still be a major factor in winning premiership teams.

For the RFC,
Thursfield plays well above his listed height/weight. Gun.
Bowden, can pinch hit against the bigger guys, but as great as he is, he is really a smaller defender.
McGuanne and Moore... similar size to Bowden. Better suited to third tall options (except St Kilda).
Polak, Good player, very versatile and just not a 1 on 1 defender at all.
Rance, should be very, very good, but is still only 192cm.
I am not going to mention other tall defenders as they are just not up to it.
Teams need players now for both the rangy forwards and big forwards. We have covered only rangy forwards to a degree.
We have NOBODY that can go really go 1 on 1 with the BIG forwards. (Brown, Lloyd, Hawkins, Koschitzke, Gehrig)
We really lack defenders of the 193+ cm range.
We lack depth. If we lose Thursfield, we have a VERY BIG PROBLEM.
I hope they are developing Putt to play down back with his height, speed etc...he is my smokey for CHB of the future.

To win a GF we are definatley going to have to beat sides with Big forwards.

 

[Bojangles17]

So so true Mr Bojangles. Have been trying to tell my mates this for years.Newy gets let off the hook a bit by our supporters for how poor he can be defensively. I have been watching Chris play since he was 9 and he has always been an absolute ball magnet when in the midfield. I just can not believe he has not been given a greater opportunity in the middle.

you must be from out Narree then records, mate from work involved in jun footy out that way says exactly same thing

 

[Bojangles17]

That is a percieved trend and I think it's a bit misleading and also not a good indication of what type of defender will be required in the future.

Some examples (against that percieved trend):
St Kilda - With the addition of King and the return to fitness of Gardiner will likely see Koschitzke played up forward with Gehrig and Riewoldt. They have a potentially MASSIVE forward strucure that most teams can not contend with size wise.
Brisbane - J.Brown - not exactly a small fella.
Essendon - Lloyd (and others with good size, lucas etc) (luckily the rest of their team is fair at best)
Geelong - Tom Hawkins - emerging BIG star - possibly Locket'esque.

Also, if you look back at the leading Goal Kickers of the last 30 years, you will notice a real mixed bag of sizes. Dunstall, Locket, Beasley, Roach, BT, Ablett, Quinlan, Longmire,Blight, Templeton, Hudson, Modra, Cummings, Nietz, Gehrig, Fevola, Brown.

Ie. not much has changed size wise. I think it's more that flooding makes it harder for the forwards to kick huge bags of goals on their own. So to win you generally require more team efforts. But that said, the big guys will still be a major factor in winning premiership teams.

For the RFC,
Thursfield plays well above his listed height/weight. Gun.
Bowden, can pinch hit against the bigger guys, but as great as he is, he is really a smaller defender.
McGuanne and Moore... similar size to Bowden. Better suited to third tall options (except St Kilda).
Polak, Good player, very versatile and just not a 1 on 1 defender at all.
Rance, should be very, very good, but is still only 192cm.
I am not going to mention other tall defenders as they are just not up to it.
Teams need players now for both the rangy forwards and big forwards. We have covered only rangy forwards to a degree.
We have NOBODY that can go really go 1 on 1 with the BIG forwards. (Brown, Lloyd, Hawkins, Koschitzke, Gehrig)
We really lack defenders of the 193+ cm range.
We lack depth. If we lose Thursfield, we have a VERY BIG PROBLEM.
I hope they are developing Putt to play down back with his height, speed etc...he is my smokey for CHB of the future.

To win a GF we are definatley going to have to beat sides with Big forwards.

good analysis Mr Mills however I beg to differ that a successful team would need to contend with these hulking forwards with a few dinosaur defenders...Take the Cats for example scarlett and Harley are a couple of the best in the business yet would not physically be any bigger than our lads...Im sure a couple of other tricks come into play with throwing numbers back when playing the one or two sides that present like this

 

[emperor]

with Kingy stepping up last season and players such as Connors & Casserly coming through it gives us more scope to give Newy a crack in the middle, because he always was one of the mopping up/creating type guys in the backline, but we now have more options in that department. We need more creative presence in the midfield to give the backline a better chance of moving the ball cleanly because we don't get that with the likes of Johnson/Tuck in the middle.

Newman is a born centreman

 

[Rayzorwire]

Newman will be in Pt II of my series

Much improved midfield...Newy is a born midfielder, hard at it, nice finisher wins the pill and p_iss poor defensive skills...so FFS keep him away from the BP..reality is thatwhilst Newy looked good at times racking up the pill in back half his opponent was generally also doing quite nicely TY..slotting 3-4 majors on an all too frequent basis..

Starting centreman from R1

Newman got beaten in defense so often because he positions himself poorly, lacks genuine speed and is not a good contested ball winner - in the air or at ground level.

He's a decent upgrade on Tivendale on a wing as a receiver, but the same flaws he had as a defender will show through clearly if he is put in the centre where he has to win his own ball at AFL level.

 

[the egg]

With the return of Thursfield etc etc will this allow Bowden to play more freely and maybe even give the middfield a shake? I want him in my dreamteam again because he is my man!