Our list in '05

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Thread starter #1
I posted this on Nick's, thought i'd throw it in here too.......



I guess this is not really different to a who should stay and who should go thread, but I thought I would offer an opinion on how the boys have progressed this year. I've decided on a rating of forward or backward only, no treading water. I haven't taken contract situations into account either.

1. Leon Davis - Forward. Perhaps I'm being overly positive bit I get the feeling that Leon has turned a corner. As well as the Rex Hunt episode, he has had alot of personal problems over the past few years and I think he is ready to put them behind him. Keep.

2. Shane Woewodin - Backward. Struggled early, but has found some form in the latter part of the year. Has been a good servant and I believe he still holds some value on a young list (on a performance based contract). Despite what was in the Age today, I say keep.

3. Ryan Lonie - Backward in a big way. Has size, lots of pace and a long kick but he is a girl. It's unfortunate because he is exactly what we need if he could get the footy 13-17 times a game consistently. Trade only if we can get value, otherwise he is worth another shot.

4. Alan Didak - Forward just. Looked brilliant mid year but seems to find ways to miss games. I reckon he will be as good as or better than Nathan Brown in time, remember Brown was just a goal sneak until 25 or 26. Didak is 22.

5. Nathan Buckley - Backward. Has still been our best player and would win the copeland if he played all year, he might still give it a shake. Obviously his strings are a worry. Can't wait to see him as a full forward, worth 60 goals at least. Keep.

6. Brodie Holland - Forward. Has had another good year, really gets the most out of himself. I love him in a tagging role, still getting plenty of footy and kicking a few goals. I think he's the most underrated player at the club, it's not a stretch to say he should be up there with Stenglein etc as the games best defensive midfielders(when he is given that role). Keep.

7. Chad Morrison - Backward. A year to forget for the Chad, solid enough when playing though. Has obvious weaknesses but was bought to the club to release Johnson and Cole into the guts. The reports during the week that he is on $400,000 would have to be the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. Will be handy if injury free. Keep.

8. James Clement - Forward. Has only enhanced his reputation as one of the finest players in the comp.Should win second copeland despite falling away slightly in the second half of the year (who can blame him?). Keep and make captain.

9. Julian Rowe - Forward. Despite some ordinary disposal he has shown he knows how to get the pill and has composure. The reason for his poor kicking is that he tries to kick off one step and around corners, he has a beautiful technique on both feet so I've got no doubt he will turn it around. Apparently still hindered by a knee injury as well. Keep, is a star of the future.

10. Blake Caracella - Forward. Has been a handy pick up for basically nothing. With the way he plays there is no reason we cant squeeze another 3-4 years out of him. Keep.

11. Shane O'bree - Forward. Has played some handy games and improved from last year, but in saying that I think his time at Collingwood is up. Tough calls will be made and he is not the sort of player we really need going forward. Trade (may get some suprise value) or Delist.

12. Tristan Walker - Backward. I can't work this big fella out. I like him and have stuck up for him on several occasions, but now I'm not sure why. Has potential, if we can get value we should trade, otherwise keep. Blokes like him don't grow on trees, he may come good.

13. Richie Cole - Backwards. For what it's worth, I have never been much of a Cole fan. Has no peripheral vision and poor disposal, I crap myself every time he gets the ball to be honest. He has shown a poor attitude this year as well. Would love to trade him if we can get a good player in return, otherwise keep as he has plenty of room to improve.

14. Shane Wakelin - Backwards. Has had a pretty good year, so this is probably a harsh summary, but I think he has started to show some chinks in a previously pristine armour. Will still be value next year but I think age and soft tissue injuries will keep him from playing in 07. Will be very sad to see him go, one of my favourites. Keep.

15. Chris Egan - Forward. Has shown he has enough talent to justify his high pick. I hope he can find consistency in the future, too early to call but could be a real star.

16. Tom Davidson - backward. I realy feel for this bloke, he has played one quarter of footy in 4 years. I'm not counting Willi because every game he plays there is only a path to getting back into the one's, nobody on an afl list would be satisfied with playing vfl. I hope we keep him but he could be in danger, too close to call. Please keep.

17. Scott Burns - Backward. See Shane Wakelin word for word.

18. Paul Licuria - Backward. Has had a solid year but the consistency wasn't there. Soft tissue injuries have restricted him, has played in alot games that he shouldn't have. He is the heart and soul of this club, will be back to his usual lofty standard in 06. Keep.

19. Andrew Williams - Backward. Was lucky to be on the list this year. Delist.

20. Chris Tarrant - Backward. We all know about Chris's struggles this year, he will be better when fully fit with bigger bodies around him. What worries me with Tazza is that he always has to work so hard for his goals. Matthew Lloyd regularly picks off one or two a game from handballs in the goal square or getting by himself. If he can learn to get some of those we will see his much maligned "averages under two goals a game" stat improve markedly. Keep.

22. Rhyce Shaw - Forward. I must admit I wanted to get rid of Rhyce for the last few years, so no-one was more suprised than me at his improvement this year. I hope he keeps it up because he is a great footy story. Keep.

23. Anthony Rocca - Backward. Only gets this rating from being injured for so long, looked very dangerous against North before the achillies went. Can't wait to have him back. Keep.

24. Tarkyn Lockyer - Backward. Like most I have been frustrated by Tarks at times this year. He reminds me of Matty Young from the saints a few years ago. He won their best and fairest on the back of his brilliant foot skills, then the next year they deserted him and he was out the door. Is popular amongst supporters and the club, but I wouldn't be suprised if he was traded. Trade or Keep.

25. Josh Fraser - Backward. I got the feeling he was ready to take the league by storm this year, he would be bitterly disappointed with the way 05 has gone. Not sure on his ideal position yet, but I can't wait to see him in 06. He is a future captain of this club. Keep.

26. Ben Johnson - Backward. Has done so in a suprisingly big way. Like Fraser I was expecting big things from Johnno in 05. Probably played when he shouldn't have with the quad injury, is an automatic when fit. Lets hope the rumors he wants out aren't true, he is just the kind of player we are after. Keep.

27. Nick Maxwell - Forward. Nick has been great this year, there's alot to like about his attack on the ball and desperation. Skills are great and he will benefit from some extra bulk. Has fallen away late in the year, being played out of position hasn't helped though. Keep.

28. Sean Rusling - Forward. I don't think anyone at the club would have expected him to play at all this year, but seems to play better according to the level he is at. He looks to have a good head on his shoulders and as we know he is an explosive athlete. Skills could do with some work but hopefully will develop into an automatic choice next year. With a player of his obvious talent but relative inexperience, we need to be prepared to take the good with the bad. Is a champion in the making. Keep.

29. Matthew Lokan - Backward. See Andrew Williams. Even a few years ago I could never work out how he got a game. Must have had photos of MM having sex with a cow. Delist.

30. David King - Backward. Not a bad sort of player, too many limitations to play AFL though. May be rookied elsewhere, I doubt it though. Delist.

31. Billy Morrison - Backward. I actually had to check the website to see who wore this number. Delist.

32. Travis Cloke - Forward. Fantastic year from someone who is probably not even ready to play and had many other commitments. It's worth remembering he is a VCE student, what were you doing in year 12? Has great skills, pace, brains and a good frame to build on. He is the most exciting prospect we've had since Buckley, looking forward to a long career from Trav. Keep for the next 12 years at least.

33. Cameron Cloke - Forward. Possibly a bit generous, but his early season form basically holding up the ruck on his own was impressive. Is still a bit fat, but I reckon he could be a very good player. He seems to have a knack of doing brilliant things, but he is another one without a set position just yet. Personally I think he will be a good CHF. Could go either way but I'm expecting a big future. Keep.

34. Jason Cloke - Backward. Poor year from Jason overall, but as always has shown as much heart as anyone on the list. At times he has made me cringe (turnovers, articles in the paper) and I've also swelled with pride watching the way he fought back into the side and battled his guts out. He's a bit of a funny one because unless a key backman goes down next year, you can't see him getting a game in another position with a full side. Needs to improve fitness and skills and cement a position in that backline, will he stay on another year and hope for more injuries or that Wakelin retires in 07? Look at trade or keep.

35. Presti - Backward. Another solid year from Presti, has had a few bags kicked on him but he can't really be blamed for that. I've given him this rating because he'd have to learn to get more footy to go forward and because he seems to have lost a bit of pace. Still one of the better full backs gettign around. Keep.

36. Dane Swan - Forward. Dane has had a good year and established himself in the team nicely. My only query is what position do we play him in? I don't think he is a natural backman, his disposal is a bit weak for the midfield and we have plenty of forward options. His versatility is almost his weakness and I think he may suffer for it. Needs to find/ be given a regular spot and stay there. Look to trade or keep.

37. Brayden Shaw - Backward. As we know he has already been cut from the list, showed some form in patches but couldn't get it together. Was unlucky with injury but it's a cut throat industry. In saying that he may come back to bite us, I hope we can get him in the rookie draft.

38. Adam Iacobucci - Forward. Yakka has shown he knows how to get the footy for both Willi and in the ones, his disposal is quite neat too. He is also a strong tackler and has good a defensive game. Seems to be good in all areas but outstanding in none, but they knew what they were getting when they picked him. Will most likely be groomed as a replacement for a Burns or Licuria type and should be given every chance. Keep.

39. Heath Shaw - Forward. There is alot to like about Heath. He is a good size and seems to be like Cameron Cloke in the way he is able to do the amazing at times (Lay a big tackle or bump, effect a desperate spoil etc). Disposal needs some work but he is a good hard player in the Glen Freeborn mode. Keep.

40. Brent Hall - Backward. I know big blokes need time to develop, but he is behind alot of players in the pecking order now. We need room on the list and the fact that he hasn't been played when we have desperately needed a ruckman (cloke and Wakelin?) does not bode well for the kid. Delist.

Rookies

41. Ben Davies - Forward. I've really liked what I've seen of Ben this year. I had him pegged as pure half back reciever but his work around the stoppages has been first rate. His disposal is neat without being excpetional, but I think that will come once he gets used to the huge difference in tempo at afl level. Hopefully he is another with a big future, although he may find himself still on the rookie list next year if we can't clear enough room.

43. Harry O'brien - Forward. Once again ther is alot to like about this kid, he has very quickly become a Collingwood cult figure. Is big, super quick and very good defensively, his attitude seems to be first rate too. Disposal is not perfect just yet, but he will improve as he has a solid technique. I believe he will be elevated ahead of Davies if we have the space, but he could stay on the rookie list. Bright future.

44. Zane Leonard - Backward. I like what I've heard/seen of Zane, he just gets injured too much. He may be re-rookied but I think his time is up unfortunately.

45. David Fanning - Forward. Fanning has come on in leaps and bounds this year, his improvement has been fantastic. Even in his first Wizard cup game he took a few big contested marks which is something no Collingwood ruckman has been able to do for quite a while. He's played against the best in the league on a regular basis and mostly held his own. He will be promoted next year and he has a big big future at the club. I think it will turn out to be one of the best recruiting moves of all time.



There is some real talent coming through for us, my main concern is finding a regular position for our young blokes.

We can comfortably delist 6 players to accomodate for the draft and psd. If we can add a ready made midfield option I think we have a top 6 side.

I think there will be some suprises come trade week though...
 

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#3
pretty good ananlysis. i agree in most parts, except i strongly doubt we could be a top 6 side in 06, i think that is extremely wishful thinking.
id imagine we're a good 2-3 years away now. if only the likes of lonie, cole and johnno can fire again and deliver what they promised we can get back up within a couple of years.
 

Lonie_from_50

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#6
Okay, but the rating system is too predictable. Summaries all very good, but as I said, everybody would have the same ratings as it is simply that easy to judge.

Shane Wakelin will win our best and fairest....i hope.
 
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#7
hilly69 said:
leon davis foward u have to be kidding
Shows what you know. He is starting to find consistency and has really shown some gamebreaking skill that we need out of him. Is still young and is going to be a pretty good player for the years to come
 

magpies42

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#9
good job, i was very sad to here that brayden got teh chop and im affraid he might bite us back one day! to captain vic metro ( i believe) is not to be taken lightly. The kid is exactly that just a kid, some ppl dont take there footy seriously till they grow up and im affraid that brayden is one of em, he will come good dont and we will be crying in a few years time!
 
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Thread starter #10
Sorry everyone, I left Guy "Invisible Man" Richards out. Obviously he has gone backward but he has a big future if injury free... How many times have we said that on these boards!
 

pieman1

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#11
I don't think you should give guys who missed through injury a backwards rating, how about MIA Missing in action. A bit tough on Presti, our midfield has been blown to bits this year and as a consequence the backline see the ball more and the forward line less.
 

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Thread starter #12
Good Point Pieman.

The reason I only had forward or backward ratings was so there would be no wishy washy, middle ground ratings.

I believe at the start of each season, every player under the age of 30 would aim to be a better player by the end of it. I rated these guys on whether they had achieved that or if they were behind where they started.
 
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#13
Great summary

I reckon with Williams, Lokan, Hall, Morrison,B Shaw as the first five plus probably King or a decision on OBree and Davidson
Pick up 5 kids and I think we have to put Fanning on the list.

I do not mind the idea of B Shaw on the Rookie list but we need to look at a few and hope to find another Maxwell on the Rookie List.

I reckon Tarkyn has had it tough from a few. He was one of our big losses in 2003 with the knee. He should have 2006 to prove him self.

I am a bit concerned about Burnsy. He has been fantastic and he gives it plenty but I have not been happy with his second half of the year. He like plenty may have been beaten by the numbers.

Hope he finds it again in 2006.

We do have few 2006 year end decisions. Burns, Wakelin, Obree, Walker, Davidson (the last three if they stay) likewise Woewodin, Cole, J Cloke, Swan and Tarkyn
 
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#14
Great review.

For my own 2 cents though I'd like to see Tarks stay. The guy is pretty much a reliable kick on both sides of his body and next year when the forward line is pumping he'll have so many options to kick to.

Richie can get the boot. Showed so much and produced nothing. Have you ever seen a player been run down so much - great call of having no peripheral vision .... and how about those pussy passes. The Dons will take him and for his sake hope Sheeds does something with him.

I like O'Bree but can see him going. If he converted better when he needs to I'd say I keep him but he either misses or more likely hits the friggin' goal post all the time.

Ryan should be given another chance to play more up the ground. We know his boot and he is quite good overhead too. The problem with Lonie though is that he can't break a tackle at all. Pings-ville baby.

Neon should be traded. Problems in the past are problems in the past - I'm sorry. He just does not perform consistently and he'll be good value to trade.

Woewodin I don't mind except for the fact he doesn't look like he wants to play ... well at Collingwood anyway. He's like a kid that moved to a different school and misses his old mates so he's heart isn't in it anymore. I'm purely guessing though ... I dunno the bloke. Another point about Woey though is when he is tackled and his left arm is grabbed it's all over sunshine. It's llike a deer caught in some head lights. I'd trade him now while he still has value.

Dane is a keep for sure... why trade?? I thought being versatile was also known as a utility?

Jason Cloke is another keep for sure. I reckon there is something else to this story than just not being able to fit into the backline or on poor form. If Jason didn't get suspended that time we would have won a GF because he was in the backline! Rhyce was given years and years allowance to prove himself and it only happened this year. Jason has 1 season of not being picked and all of sudden he should be drafted? I don't uderstand?

I do hope Ben stays.

Fanning was outstanding this year and in the way he was brought into the side due to injuries. Playing BBall 2 seasons ago or something and now AFL level?? Fantastic.

And speaking of injuries, though I'd hate to harp on about it, but it's quite ironic isn't it? We move into the Lexus centre with all the best facilities a professional could want but we have no one who is friggin' well enough to use it?!? ;)
 

Tazza_20

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#16
great post mate, really got it spot on apart from one thing, we all know that andrew williams will win the copeland and NOT james clement
 

Jabso

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#17
My look at it.
How far they've progressed from last season on a scale of -5 to +5.
For new players its based on how far they've progressed through out the year, and not from last season.

1. Davis +1
2. Woewodin -2
3. Lonie -3
4. Didak +2
5. Buckley -1
6. Holland +3
7. Morrison 0
8. Clement +1
9. Rowe +1
10. Caracella +3
11. O'Bree +1
12. Walker -4
13. Cole -5
14. Wakelin +1
15. Egan +3
16. Davidson -4
17. Burns -2
18. Licuria -3
19. Williams -1
20. Tarrant -2
21. Richards -3
22. R.Shaw +5
23. Rocca -2
24. Lockyer +2
25. Fraser -2
26. Johnson -3
27. Maxwell +3
28. Rusling +2
29. Lokan -1
30. King -4
31. B.Morrison -4
32. T.Cloke +4
33. C.Cloke 0
34. J.Cloke 0 (shown better form when he returned than he ever did in 2004 but he was in the VFL for most of 2005)
35. Prestigiacomo 0
36. Swan +3
37. B.Shaw 0
38. Iacobucci +1
39. H.Shaw +2
40. Hall +1
41. Davies +2
43. O'Brien +3
44. Leonard -4
45. Fanning +4
 
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