Prediction Our next coach

[Ger8]

The next three matches are crucial to our season and if we end winning only one of them I would expect the board to act and install an interim coach. The season isn’t completely gone at that point and maybe we could still be in it with a new voice to the players.

 

[GingerDocker]

The next three matches are crucial to our season and if we end winning only one of them I would expect the board to act and install an interim coach. The season isn’t completely gone at that point and maybe we could still be in it with a new voice to the players.

Has an interim coach ever had finals success after being appointed mid season?

 

[anchor man]

Surely going by wasted talent the Connelly years and failure to consistently make finals in the mid-2000s is worse?

Make no mistake, Connolly had by far the hardest job in the afl.. bar none.
He had to be coach, but that came after having to find sponsors, Help lift the membership. Be the general good guy.Get out and spend time convincing the sponsors that they were doing the right thing.
Have to put up with the AFL coming over with the baseball bat to beat everyone of the hierachy of the club around the ears.
He had by far the toughest job at the club.But was a large part of the revival, if you like, along side Rick Hart anf Cameron Schwab.
Three years when we re $8mil in debt and with no assistance, non, zip, zilch, zero, from the AFL, to operasting inthe balck. And the club have not looked back since monetary wise.And as well , absolutely nothing coming from the WAFC either.

 

[mattis117]

I view things slightly differently to the comments here re effort. IMO players not being ready is not the fault of the head coach, it cannot be his job to motivate people. In fact, needing to motivate people is a sign of deeper issues within an organisation, because the right group heading in the right direction is a self-motivating system.

There is too much attention on JL as the figurehead, when more heat should be applied to the leadership group. The players not being ready is the fault primarily of the players and the leadership group. It wasn't a lack of planning or strategy that lost the game in round 1, the players simply did not turn up ready to compete. That's on the players. They've stated publicly through contracts they're invested in this program and believe the vision, so where were they on Saturday?

I'm asking Alex Pearce first of all what went wrong, not JL.

 

[anchor man]

I view things slightly differently to the comments here re effort. IMO players not being ready is not the fault of the head coach, it cannot be his job to motivate people. In fact, needing to motivate people is a sign of deeper issues within an organisation, because the right group heading in the right direction is a self-motivating system.

There is too much attention on JL as the figurehead, when more heat should be applied to the leadership group. The players not being ready is the fault primarily of the players and the leadership group. It wasn't a lack of planning or strategy that lost the game in round 1, the players simply did not turn up ready to compete. That's on the players. They've stated publicly through contracts they're invested in this program and believe the vision, so where were they on Saturday?

I'm asking Alex Pearce first of all what went wrong, not JL.

.
Standing ovation from me.
Well said.
If the players need a kick up the rse on game day, there is something missing in them,not the coach.

 

[GingerDocker]

I view things slightly differently to the comments here re effort. IMO players not being ready is not the fault of the head coach, it cannot be his job to motivate people. In fact, needing to motivate people is a sign of deeper issues within an organisation, because the right group heading in the right direction is a self-motivating system.

There is too much attention on JL as the figurehead, when more heat should be applied to the leadership group. The players not being ready is the fault primarily of the players and the leadership group. It wasn't a lack of planning or strategy that lost the game in round 1, the players simply did not turn up ready to compete. That's on the players. They've stated publicly through contracts they're invested in this program and believe the vision, so where were they on Saturday.

I'm asking Alex Pearce first of all what went wrong, not JL.

This may or may not be correct.

The difficult bit is even if it is our leadership group, there's not much we can do to rectify the situation. I can't see Pearce, Serong, Brayshaw, Treacy etc being dropped or even disciplined in any way.

Unfortunately, wrongly of rightly, the senior coach often carries the can for the sins of the players, even more so if those sins are committed by the best and most senior players because it's easy to drop the lower ranked players, not so much the senior ones.

Make no mistake, it's JL whose career is on the line, regardless of who might or might not be at fault so that's where things will start and finish.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Have to disagree.
McPharlin, Sandi, Pav, Mundy, Fyfe, Hill, Walters, Ballas is untouchable as a top end.

Darcy is never available, Pearce often injured, our key forwards are a couple of years off being ready and we have no quality small forwards.

Our midfield is hard working but very vanilla without Young. We don’t have anyone else that can kick the ball like Hill & Mundy did & Fyfe was the best contested mark in the game. We don’t have enough elite talent just a more even spread.

Neale, Barlow, Johnson all up there too.

 

[Docker82]

Neale, Barlow, Johnson all up there too.

Neale wasn’t in that era with the possible exception of just 2015. Barlow was with the exception of 2015.

Neale was AFL standard before then but not even close to those other names at the time. What he became after half those guys retired/declined isn’t really relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[anchor man]

This may or may not be correct.

The difficult bit is even if it is our leadership group, there's not much we can do to rectify the situation. I can't see Pearce, Serong, Brayshaw, Treacy etc being dropped or even disciplined in any way.

Unfortunately, wrongly of rightly, the senior coach often carries the can for the sins of the players, even more so if those sins are committed by the best and most senior players because it's easy to drop the lower ranked players, not so much the senior ones.

Make no mistake, it's JL whose career is on the line, regardless of who might or might not be at fault so that's where things will start and finish.

And why would they be dropped.It is not often that all those are not in the best six or so named.
They prepare for the game as they should, there are a lot that are not ready to play at siren time.

 

[Quay Club]

Make no mistake, Connolly had by far the hardest job in the afl.. bar none.
He had to be coach, but that came after having to find sponsors, Help lift the membership. Be the general good guy.Get out and spend time convincing the sponsors that they were doing the right thing.
Have to put up with the AFL coming over with the baseball bat to beat everyone of the hierachy of the club around the ears.
He had by far the toughest job at the club.But was a large part of the revival, if you like, along side Rick Hart anf Cameron Schwab.
Three years when we re $8mil in debt and with no assistance, non, zip, zilch, zero, from the AFL, to operasting inthe balck. And the club have not looked back since monetary wise.And as well , absolutely nothing coming from the WAFC either.

Not to mention AC/DC!

 

[Wigarus]

I view things slightly differently to the comments here re effort. IMO players not being ready is not the fault of the head coach, it cannot be his job to motivate people. In fact, needing to motivate people is a sign of deeper issues within an organisation, because the right group heading in the right direction is a self-motivating system.

There is too much attention on JL as the figurehead, when more heat should be applied to the leadership group. The players not being ready is the fault primarily of the players and the leadership group. It wasn't a lack of planning or strategy that lost the game in round 1, the players simply did not turn up ready to compete. That's on the players. They've stated publicly through contracts they're invested in this program and believe the vision, so where were they on Saturday?

I'm asking Alex Pearce first of all what went wrong, not JL.

You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

The coach is the players' boss. If the players aren't putting in effort, he shouldn't pick them to play AFL that week. That's his stick.

If he wants the players to bring effort then he needs to give them a carrot. That's a game plan capable of winning against the best teams in the finals and a chance of a flag. It's a promise to the list that you will have integrity of selection and you will only pick players to play AFL who demonstrate that required effort.

Every time you pick a team, you send a message. What message did JLo give the playing group last week when he picked Worner in the 22? I know what message he sent to the fans, you can read it on this board.

But my main bugbear re: JLo is that AFL players aren't regular employees. They are prized employees and the coach has to work to keep them motivated. If he doesn't they could not only play without the required effort, they can leave and go join some other club that sells them a story they like.

If the players are not giving effort they are telling you with their body language that they aren't inspired by the coach or his game plan. They don't have any control over who coaches them, they have control over how they act. All game plans require individuals to play selflessly for the greater good of the team. When players are uninspired, they play selfishly, more concerned about how they will be perceived or what their individual stats look like.

Ross talked about taking the emotional risk to give 100% effort because it's easy to go at 95% and give yourself an excuse that you didn't try hard enough. It takes courage to put yourself out there and try your hardest with no guarantee of success.

Andy Brayshaw is contracted to 2031, JLo is contracted to the end of this year. Do you REALLY believe that his contract shows he's invested in the program and believes in the vision? He has already come to work during his career to find out his coach has been sacked during the season.

 

[mattis117]

You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

The coach is the players' boss. If the players aren't putting in effort, he shouldn't pick them to play AFL that week. That's his stick.

If he wants the players to bring effort then he needs to give them a carrot. That's a game plan capable of winning against the best teams in the finals and a chance of a flag. It's a promise to the list that you will have integrity of selection and you will only pick players to play AFL who demonstrate that required effort.

Every time you pick a team, you send a message. What message did JLo give the playing group last week when he picked Worner in the 22? I know what message he sent to the fans, you can read it on this board.

But my main bugbear re: JLo is that AFL players aren't regular employees. They are prized employees and the coach has to work to keep them motivated. If he doesn't they could not only play without the required effort, they can leave and go join some other club that sells them a story they like.

If the players are not giving effort they are telling you with their body language that they aren't inspired by the coach or his game plan. They don't have any control over who coaches them, they have control over how they act. All game plans require individuals to play selflessly for the greater good of the team. When players are uninspired, they play selfishly, more concerned about how they will be perceived or what their individual stats look like.

Ross talked about taking the emotional risk to give 100% effort because it's easy to go at 95% and give yourself an excuse that you didn't try hard enough. It takes courage to put yourself out there and try your hardest with no guarantee of success.

Andy Brayshaw is contracted to 2031, JLo is contracted to the end of this year. Do you REALLY believe that his contract shows he's invested in the program and believes in the vision? He has already come to work during his career to find out his coach has been sacked during the season.

It's round 1, so everyone starts with a clean slate. We don't have all the information, we're making guesses from the outside. The selection of Banfield and Worner in the side, with Chapman as the sub, completely baffles me, I don't understand it. But, what I am not going to do is make assumptions about how the players feel about their selection. That is conjecture, not fact.

There may be a reasonable explanation for what occurred, we're unlikely to ever know. I will never draw conclusions off one game. There is data to support your conclusions but there is also data that counters them. Many conclusive statements being made by outside observers that do not have all the facts. The posits about low effort are countered by the posits about buy in from a contractual point of view, and also the desire for good players to come here, Jackson, Bolton, Pickett, and Warner all linked with the club.

The Ross Lyon teams in the first half of his tenure were special for their buy in. There is one other example, which is late 2006, where Fremantle had total buy in, with things just not falling their way. Ross also presided over some of our worst ever seasons.

Each group is different and what worked for one group may not work for another.

I do not particularly like JL. However, I cannot argue against the simple fact that everyone at the club who knows him better than I do are adamant that he is their man. It is unified from the board to the players. That does not happen by accident and it is not a mistake.

What am I trying to say in all this? Simply that a pile on after one round is reactionary, and that the head coach is only one factor in players turning up ready to play. Game plan, strategy, and tactics are all meaningless when the effort or focus is lacking. I'm not even sure I can categorically say effort was involved. To me, it seemed that the players did not have their heads in the game. It wasn't physical, it was mental preparedness.

It is worrying that 3 times in 24 games that the team has turned up not mentally ready to play.

 

[King Huskii]

You are entitled to your opinion but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

The coach is the players' boss. If the players aren't putting in effort, he shouldn't pick them to play AFL that week. That's his stick.

If he wants the players to bring effort then he needs to give them a carrot. That's a game plan capable of winning against the best teams in the finals and a chance of a flag. It's a promise to the list that you will have integrity of selection and you will only pick players to play AFL who demonstrate that required effort.

Every time you pick a team, you send a message. What message did JLo give the playing group last week when he picked Worner in the 22? I know what message he sent to the fans, you can read it on this board.

But my main bugbear re: JLo is that AFL players aren't regular employees. They are prized employees and the coach has to work to keep them motivated. If he doesn't they could not only play without the required effort, they can leave and go join some other club that sells them a story they like.

If the players are not giving effort they are telling you with their body language that they aren't inspired by the coach or his game plan. They don't have any control over who coaches them, they have control over how they act. All game plans require individuals to play selflessly for the greater good of the team. When players are uninspired, they play selfishly, more concerned about how they will be perceived or what their individual stats look like.

Ross talked about taking the emotional risk to give 100% effort because it's easy to go at 95% and give yourself an excuse that you didn't try hard enough. It takes courage to put yourself out there and try your hardest with no guarantee of success.

Andy Brayshaw is contracted to 2031, JLo is contracted to the end of this year. Do you REALLY believe that his contract shows he's invested in the program and believes in the vision? He has already come to work during his career to find out his coach has been sacked during the season.

Hmmm yeah

How does the head coach no if a player hasn't got them self mentally ready before the game if they haven't played round 1 yet?

He can make charges now due to poor performance but prior to round 1 it's a clean slate.

Have you ever coached before because it appears you are just guessing?

 

[fnerd]

GWS coach thanks

He was readily available when we selected Jlo but didn’t even make the short list , probably not even the first list.

FFS

I worry more about about who picks our next coach than whoever the actual coach is .

When hawks selected clarko just about the entire footy world were shocked.

with such former hawthorn champions (and at the time) decent coaches like Wallace and eade available ,everyone just expected one of those (sure their was another ex hawk coach available at the time too) to get the job but dunstsll , in particular, were impressed by far the most with clarkos presentation and vision so he got the call .

Edit

What Westerberg Said

 

[Wigarus]

It's round 1, so everyone starts with a clean slate. We don't have all the information, we're making guesses from the outside. The selection of Banfield and Worner in the side, with Chapman as the sub, completely baffles me, I don't understand it. But, what I am not going to do is make assumptions about how the players feel about their selection. That is conjecture, not fact.

There may be a reasonable explanation for what occurred, we're unlikely to ever know. I will never draw conclusions off one game. There is data to support your conclusions but there is also data that counters them. Many conclusive statements being made by outside observers that do not have all the facts. The posits about low effort are countered by the posits about buy in from a contractual point of view, and also the desire for good players to come here, Jackson, Bolton, Pickett, and Warner all linked with the club.

The Ross Lyon teams in the first half of his tenure were special for their buy in. There is one other example, which is late 2006, where Fremantle had total buy in, with things just not falling their way. Ross also presided over some of our worst ever seasons.

Each group is different and what worked for one group may not work for another.

I do not particularly like JL. However, I cannot argue against the simple fact that everyone at the club who knows him better than I do are adamant that he is their man. It is unified from the board to the players. That does not happen by accident and it is not a mistake.

What am I trying to say in all this? Simply that a pile on after one round is reactionary, and that the head coach is only one factor in players turning up ready to play. Game plan, strategy, and tactics are all meaningless when the effort or focus is lacking. I'm not even sure I can categorically say effort was involved. To me, it seemed that the players did not have their heads in the game. It wasn't physical, it was mental preparedness.

It is worrying that 3 times in 24 games that the team has turned up not mentally ready to play.

You started this post saying that a player not being happy about being picked when he's vying for a spot is conjecture (even though it is admitted by practically every player in history) and ended the post by saying it's a fact that the entire club to a man thinks JLo is the man.


Here's an idea. Why don't you pick any other team in the AFL and see if you can find a quote from the players saying they don't like their coach?

 

[more_of_bito]

If we are worse than 4-2 come round 6

Longmuir to Longmire

 

[fnerd]

To be honest, I want someone that's been under Mitchell. Think he's a class above the rest.

Hickmott gets talked up.

good call ..maybe we should try that David hale bloke then?

 

[Sully90]

I'd prefer to stick to the unknown assistant route. Just can't see Simpson, Longmire, Buckley, Hinkley etc getting the job done here.

 

[Docker82]

If we are worse than 4-2 come round 6

Longmuir to Longmire

Only way an AFL coach goes that early is if something tragic happens. I think I speak for everyone in saying I hope that doesn’t happen.

There’s zero chance an AFL coach gets sacked that early in the season. Guess there’s a minimal chance he resigns himself if we’re 0-6 but we’d have to be next level terrible for that to happen. I’m talking no better than Saturday for the next five weeks.

 

[Catalpa]

If we go down the snr assistant route, Jarrad Schofield might be worth an interview. What he did at Subi was impressive. He has a bit of mongrel in him.

 

[FD2646]

If we go down the snr assistant route, Jarrad Schofield might be worth an interview. What he did at Subi was impressive. He has a bit of mongrel in him.

He also had a WAFL playing list the envy of all other clubs funded by dodgy Subi whitegoods deals etc. Many half decent coaches could have taken subi to those flags....in fact Beau Wardman did just that in his first year of coaching Subi after Schofield left.

 

[Kapow!!!]

I view things slightly differently to the comments here re effort. IMO players not being ready is not the fault of the head coach, it cannot be his job to motivate people. In fact, needing to motivate people is a sign of deeper issues within an organisation, because the right group heading in the right direction is a self-motivating system.

There is too much attention on JL as the figurehead, when more heat should be applied to the leadership group. The players not being ready is the fault primarily of the players and the leadership group. It wasn't a lack of planning or strategy that lost the game in round 1, the players simply did not turn up ready to compete. That's on the players. They've stated publicly through contracts they're invested in this program and believe the vision, so where were they on Saturday?

I'm asking Alex Pearce first of all what went wrong, not JL.

I think this is definitely an area where both things are true. The on field leadership at the moment is one of if not the worst in the league. They're unable to stand up to pressure and work things out when the momentum shifts leaving us prone to wild margin swings and are consistently down on effort for first quarters. I'd certainly be asking a lot of Pearce but also Brayshaw and Serong: Supposed natural leaders, leading the way at training and driving a healthy culture but are all worryingly quiet when things go against them.

I think Treacy is perhaps the next 'run through walls for' inspirational captain on the list but he has a long way to go on his personal game first before he's ready for that, especially after a massively interrupted pre-season and a certainty for a sophomore slump. He's going to need some time to bed down his marking and leading patterns and gain full confidence/arrogance in his own game before he's ready for that.

But letting the coach off the hook for that is spectacularly naive at the kindest summation. Once upon a time motivation and match ups were the only game day jobs of a coach. He's the appointed grown up in the room: He has to take charge and responsibility when the group is flat or distracted and re-zone them. To me it seems to read as if Longmuir is focused on match ups and implementing game plans and parameters to a fault that some of the other key facets of leadership are lacking in his performance.

Two things can be true here and you're right about the on field leaders but Longmuir definitely has a large part of responsibility for effort. Say what you want about Ross: The players (apart from the anomalous outliers like St.Kilda in 2014) always showed up even if they were outclassed and injured to buggery

 

[go_the_dockers]

More random than playing Reidy as a key forward?

In Longmuir's defense, sounds like he planned to play Reidy in the ruck but we were getting smashed in the middle, so he didn't have a choice but to try something else.

 

[Joao]

If we go down the snr assistant route, Jarrad Schofield might be worth an interview. What he did at Subi was impressive. He has a bit of mongrel in him.

I bet you're impressed when PSG wins Ligue 1 too?

 

[dockerfemme]

In Longmuir's defense, sounds like he planned to play Reidy in the ruck but we were getting smashed in the middle, so he didn't have a choice but to try something else.

The very first bounce down was Jackson in the ruck.