Our On Ballers

[gbatman]

Last year we had Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Stevens and Hadley as our only players to regularly start in the center square at ball ups. The media over rated us a fair bit as did many supporters. Reality was we had some serious problems in 2009 in the center square. We really struggled to get the ball out of the center, even in some of our wins. If I remember correctly we belted Port Adelaide but they belted us in center clearances. In our losses, particularly to the Crows at AAMI Stadium our center clearance problems really showed. We also had problems with fadeouts where our midfield would just stop. The first clash with Essendon we belted them in the center then ran out of steam big time then the final at the GABBA V The Lions our engine room just stopped.

This year we have lost Nick Stevens and gained Brock Mclean as well as adding an extra pre-season onto some young players. We have also gained Robert Warnock who could be crucial to our onball success. But our big problem was not having enough players to rotate through there. Perhaps our coaches didn't back enough of our blokes to go through there or perhaps just didn't make enough changes and manage it very poorly.

For mine we had a lot of wingers and flankers but not many on ballers. IMO players like Simpson, Carrazzo, Scotland and Betts. Don't belong in there although Betts plays alright there but can't keep it up.

So who should go through the center in 2010? What challenges do we face? What do you want to see change in 2010?

For me it's Judd, Murphy, Walker, Gibbs, Mclean, Hadley and Robinson. Perhaps Grigg but he really has to prove himself. Joseph will obviously spend time in there tagging and will hopefully win more of his own ball this year.
Davies and Lucas are going to end up in there some day but just aren't ready for it yet.

The question is will Mclean work out? Will he be too slow and lack consistancy? Will Hadley work out for the same reasons and can both play in the same team? I guess if they don't we always have Robinson who could play their roles quite well and possibly better.

I think we need a more attacking ruck plan. Our onballers were very stagnant and flat footed and in the same way we tried to kick it to Fev all the time we tried to hit it to Judd all the time. We need to mix up which player our ruckman targets and also hit the ball further from the ruck to get it more in the open at times.

 

[thylacine60]

If I can distil your post down I think you are pretty much asking what do we do with Brock and Hads. They are both treacle-slow bulldozers. Playing them together will give us grunt but always leave us vulnerable in the middle. Is it so hard to swing them off and on as needed? Fitness levels are massive with both these blokes atm - they can run all day. Right now I have Hads in before Brock. Can't wait to see how the season unfolds for both players, particularly 7.

 

[gbatman]

Yeah me too! Can't wait to see how both of them go, it would be breatif they both were a hit, i suppose Geelong have Ling and Selwood who aren't over quick. I guess Enright isn't too quick either.

I was kinda asking who should play on ball this year as well...

 

[jonoman89]

Our midfield is fantastic when it has the ball in its hands. Everything else requires a fair bit of work.

Judd is our only midfielder who can be fully relied upon to bust his ass clearing the ball from packs. Murphy is fantastic running away from congestion and clearing the ball that way, but he doesn't have the same skill to handpass it out of a pack like Judd. Doesn't mean to Murphy is an outsider though, he can break tackles and rove very well. Just needs to work on his skills inside a pack.

Gibbs is a rolls royce, and i think is better at fully contested situations than Murphy. I love it how he nearly always manages to get a handpass to a teammate when he's being squashed in a pack. He needs to work on his pace and evasiveness though.

McLean i don't know enough about. Where we need him to excel is in clearing ball from packs AKA another Judd who can fire out a handpass when being tackled by 3 opposition players to a rover like Murphy. He doesn't need to have an exceptional outside game. His prime job is to feed the ball to others.

Simpson has a fantastic outside game but can be prone to lapsing in and out of games. Is getting a whole lot better in that regard though.

Walker needs to work on his disposal. Obviously.

Grigg needs a better inside game to match his aggression.

 

[gbatman]

I think Walker will be crucial to us. I know whe a game is tight and in the 4th quarter you will notice when watching Geeling that Ablett is every where, he just seems to be every where and Judd is the same like against Brisbane in the final he appeared to be every where. I don't think any of our players are capable of dominating a game in the 4th quarter like that except for Walker and Judd. Kouta could also do the same for memory like in the 99 pre-lim final. As for Grigg's aggression, perhaps that's soething he could have more of.

 

[The Toad]

Gibbs will step up to be a genuine elite mid fielder this year, which will take a lot of the pressure of Judd. With the inclusion of Mclean (he will be very good for us) this will release Judd so he doesn't have to be the one to go in and get the pill and can be then be the one to carry the ball and deliver into our fwd line ( Dont worry his kicking will get better)

Once Murphy get to full fittness we will have one of the best mid field's in the comp.

Kruezer - Judd - Gibbs - Murphy = godliness midfeild

 

[Blue since 72]

The problem last year was that Judd still had to get alot of his own ball as Gibbs and Murph while able to do it too are not well known for clearance work. Correct me if I'm wrong but Hadley wasn't really around in the early games and only got going in the second half of the season before breaking his arm. I think it was noticable that Hadley did some good work freeing up Judd so I'd like to see both Hadley and Maclean in the side for this reason, rotating on and off. if these two can keep form and stay injury free it'll go along way to allowing Judd, Gibbs and Murph to receive and go.
So that's one bench spot gone.

Krueze takes the second spot (no brainer there).

The next spot for me would be either Grigg or Carrazzo, Grigg being very good in close but with questionable foot skills, although one thing he has over Mac and Hadley is he's quite quick and Carrots is a ball magnet and gets so much of the ball a decent percentage will hit the target. Carrots I think.

Last spot on the pine is an interesting one. Do the MC go with a tall; ie 206, MK and Hammer or another small. If small I'd take Grigg, but of course all this depends on how the MC structure up the rest of the side. In a wonderful Injury free world mine would look like:

Army Jamo t-bird
JR Aussie(ideally in my book) Bower
Gibbs Maclean Simmo
Walker Waite Robo
Betts Hendo Yaz

206 Judd AJ

Krueze Hadley Murph Grigg

Geez, just looking at the above some quality players are going to miss out throughout the season thats for sure and TBH as much as I hate to say it Hammer would miss out in my team as we'd be too tall.

 

[gbatman]

well, not sure Carrazzo belongs in the center, he's an outside player who thrives on running around in the wide open spaces. We need blokes who like to go in and get it as well as being ball magnets who are good with their hands and can run all day. Walker, Mclean, Robinson, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Hadley, Joseph and Grigg need all find time to go through there. That way we always will have fresh legs through the engine room unlike previous seasons. It would be good to have Judd forward, might help him break tags. Other players like Murphy and Gibbs up forward for us is a tantalising option too. I think Robinson in the center will be a real weapon, especially as his endurance grows. Walker will be crucial for us when he gets his confidence back. Remembering back to 2006 he was our number 1 midfielder and played scarly similar to the way Judd has for us.
We need to use Judd as a decoy when he has the number 1 tag. Let Judd and murphy take the hard tags while Walker and Gibbs tear opposition appart.

 

[HBF]

Whichever combination we go with in the centre square, what we do have is a number of rotations that can go through there at any stage. Assuming Kreuzer/Warnock ruck combo, we can have all of these mids go through there at any time....

Judd
Murphy
Gibbs
Walker
Mclean
Joseph
Hadley
Carrazzo
Betts
Houlihan
Simpson

That's 11 players - not a bad effort from a few years ago when our midfield resembled something that would line up in the EFL.

 

[gbatman]

I think if we are going to be a decent team we have to have our stars spend time up forward or on the wing to break tags. Our coaches need to have more faith in players like Walker, Grigg and Robinson to take over at times from our main three. One thing we don't do is get our stars in the game when they aren't for example when Judd is being tagged out of it.

 

[zeeCFC]

Walker, Robinson, Mclean, Hads and Grigg for me. Problem is, thats mostly based on hope

 

[The Toad]

Walker, Robinson, Mclean, Hads and Grigg for me. Problem is, thats mostly based whilst on the dope

EFA Zeeman.

 

[Ryan Dixon Webb]

The problem last year was that Judd still had to get alot of his own ball as Gibbs and Murph while able to do it too are not well known for clearance work. Correct me if I'm wrong but Hadley wasn't really around in the early games and only got going in the second half of the season before breaking his arm. I think it was noticable that Hadley did some good work freeing up Judd so I'd like to see both Hadley and Maclean in the side for this reason, rotating on and off. if these two can keep form and stay injury free it'll go along way to allowing Judd, Gibbs and Murph to receive and go.
So that's one bench spot gone.

Krueze takes the second spot (no brainer there).

The next spot for me would be either Grigg or Carrazzo, Grigg being very good in close but with questionable foot skills, although one thing he has over Mac and Hadley is he's quite quick and Carrots is a ball magnet and gets so much of the ball a decent percentage will hit the target. Carrots I think.

Last spot on the pine is an interesting one. Do the MC go with a tall; ie 206, MK and Hammer or another small. If small I'd take Grigg, but of course all this depends on how the MC structure up the rest of the side. In a wonderful Injury free world mine would look like:

Army Jamo t-bird
JR Aussie(ideally in my book) Bower
Gibbs Maclean Simmo
Walker Waite Robo
Betts Hendo Yaz

206 Judd AJ

Hadley Murph Carrots Hammer/Grigg

Geez, just looking at the above some quality players are going to miss out throughout the season thats for sure and TBH as much as I hate to say it Hammer would miss out in my team as we'd be too tall.

no room for Kreuzer in your best 22?

 

[Koutafidamedis]

no room for Kreuzer in your best 22?

Was just about to say the same thing, had to read his team 4 times just to make sure I wasn't going crazy!!

 

[blues4flag]

Gibbs is a rolls royce, and i think is better at fully contested situations than Murphy. I love it how he nearly always manages to get a handpass to a teammate when he's being squashed in a pack. He needs to work on his pace and evasiveness though.

Did I read that right?

Fair enough he's not the fastest bloke at the club but I'd have thought his evasiveness (read: ability to freeze time and create space when there is none) is one of his best assets.

 

[agro]

I think there are times when Kreuzer can be played as a pure on-baller in a centre ball up situation.

Eg - centre square set up of:

Warnock or Hampson in the ruck
Kreuzer
Judd
Gibbs or Murphy

Kouta was able to play this role for us - and Kreuzer whilst not as explosive as Kouta can win ball from congested situations and is big enough and powerful enough to barge his way through - he actually has roved some of his own hit outs if you look at some of his work last year.

This will also confuse the hell out of opposing coachs as it will create a mismatch in there as well.

I am not saying you will start games that way or run Kreuzer all day in this role but at various times of a game it may be something that would work well for us.

 

[Sublime]

well, not sure Carrazzo belongs in the center, he's an outside player who thrives on running around in the wide open spaces. We need blokes who like to go in and get it as well as being ball magnets who are good with their hands and can run all day. Walker, Mclean, Robinson, Judd, Murphy, Gibbs, Hadley, Joseph and Grigg need all find time to go through there. That way we always will have fresh legs through the engine room unlike previous seasons. It would be good to have Judd forward, might help him break tags. Other players like Murphy and Gibbs up forward for us is a tantalising option too. I think Robinson in the center will be a real weapon, especially as his endurance grows. Walker will be crucial for us when he gets his confidence back. Remembering back to 2006 he was our number 1 midfielder and played scarly similar to the way Judd has for us.
We need to use Judd as a decoy when he has the number 1 tag. Let Judd and murphy take the hard tags while Walker and Gibbs tear opposition appart.

Just on Carrazzo, i think people underestimate his work in close. His contested ball and toughness is actually quite good, he just has an uncanny knack of finding open spaces also. The year he won our B&F, he actually laid a heap of tackles, showing he was doing alot of work in close. When played as a pure mid he does more grunt work than is given credit for.

 

[thylacine60]

Just on Carrazzo, i think people underestimate his work in close. His contested ball and toughness is actually quite good, he just has an uncanny knack of finding open spaces also. The year he won our B&F, he actually laid a heap of tackles, showing he was doing alot of work in close. When played as a pure mid he does more grunt work than is given credit for.

Yep. He just gets the thing. I know the next step can sometimes be awful but if he has it that many times it means they don't... er, have it... that many times... um... where was I going with this...

 

[Blue since 72]

no room for Kreuzer in your best 22?

Don't know what happened there, he made it into the pre-team list blurb but not on the team list, so have to flick either Carrots or Grigg........hmmm, I'll keep Grigg.

 

[Kramer1]

Yep. He just gets the thing. I know the next step can sometimes be awful but if he has it that many times it means they don't... er, have it... that many times... um... where was I going with this...

I think I know where your headed...an old coach used to say to me, 'look at the positives son, you gotta be able to find the thing before you can **** it up'. Carrots can sure find the thing.

 

[bigboyblue]

Despite the hype over our midfield, i agree with the general consensus that they only work one way. With this in mind, is there any chance Eddie can get to the point where he plays a 50-50 split between forward and mid?

I know, I know - he's arguably the most important player in our forward line this season given he's the only guy down there to have a consistent track record scoring goals, but man - I remember a few games last year where he was dropped into the guts for ten minutes and changed the game.

Gets the thing, works hard both ways and can finish from distance on the run - another thing our mids (esp Juddy of late) can sometimes struggle with.

 

[Blue since 72]

The problem last year was that Judd still had to get alot of his own ball as Gibbs and Murph while able to do it too are not well known for clearance work. Correct me if I'm wrong but Hadley wasn't really around in the early games and only got going in the second half of the season before breaking his arm. I think it was noticable that Hadley did some good work freeing up Judd so I'd like to see both Hadley and Maclean in the side for this reason, rotating on and off. if these two can keep form and stay injury free it'll go along way to allowing Judd, Gibbs and Murph to receive and go.
So that's one bench spot gone.

Krueze takes the second spot (no brainer there).

The next spot for me would be either Grigg or Carrazzo, Grigg being very good in close but with questionable foot skills, although one thing he has over Mac and Hadley is he's quite quick and Carrots is a ball magnet and gets so much of the ball a decent percentage will hit the target. Carrots I think.

Last spot on the pine is an interesting one. Do the MC go with a tall; ie 206, MK and Hammer or another small. If small I'd take Grigg, but of course all this depends on how the MC structure up the rest of the side. In a wonderful Injury free world mine would look like:

Army Jamo t-bird
JR Aussie(ideally in my book) Bower
Gibbs Maclean Simmo
Walker Waite Robo
Betts Hendo Yaz

206 Judd AJ

Krueze Hadley Murph Grigg

Geez, just looking at the above some quality players are going to miss out throughout the season thats for sure and TBH as much as I hate to say it Hammer would miss out in my team as we'd be too tall.

Stuff it, I'm going to go with my suggestion in the ruck dilemma thread and use Krueze as a midfielder and bring Hammer into the ruck.

So the bench is Krueze Hadley Murph and Hammer.

May be a fantasy but I'd like to see if it works.

Bring on the slagging.

 

[HARKER]

Stuff it, I'm going to go with my suggestion in the ruck dilemma thread and use Krueze as a midfielder and bring Hammer into the ruck.

So the bench is Krueze Hadley Murph and Hammer.

May be a fantasy but I'd like to see if it works.

Bring on the slagging.

I wonder what a big body would be like through centre bounces accompanying the ruckman proper?
If anyone would make a fist of it, it could be Kreuzer doing a Pavlich type thing.

Hard to picture, but not the strangest thought put forward here.

 

[Blue since 72]

I wonder what a big body would be like through centre bounces accompanying the ruckman proper?
If anyone would make a fist of it, it could be Kreuzer doing a Pavlich type thing.

Hard to picture, but not the strangest thought put forward here.

Who from any other club could match up on Krueze in this role. Maybe the Swannies could drag Goodesy out of the forward line and use him as a tagger, still give a bit away in height though.

Think everyone on here would agree the modern midfielder (in general) and key forward for that matter are taller and more mobile than the old days. I think seeing Richo succeed on a wing is only the start and we'll see more of the bigger guys playing in positions other than KP and ruck in years to come.

 

[gbatman]

Well Kreuzer could be good around stoppages, hight, size and strength is something he will have over opposition. Agility and a bit of speed off the mark is something the other will have over him but that may not be that important if he's getting his hands on it. If he's roving he'll be able to reach above the other players and grab posession of the ball as well which is a big bonus and very annoyign for small oponants who wont be able to out reach him to get tap downs, similar to rebounding in basketball. I'v played a bit on ball, taller opponants are really annoying if you can't get away from them.

The other thing he'd be good at would be lifting the arms, taking tackles and dishing off handballs. He'd also be much bigger than his opponants and be able to push and knock blokes around in there and win some hard ball.

He is quick enough, big guys always look slow, he's probably quicker in all aspects than Hadley and Mclean. He's brave and goes in hard withhis head over it.

He might have to practice these skills but he might make an onballer, who knows, could really be a match winner especially drifting forward as a midfielder.