Training Our players and basic skills

[Scham]

I've been saying this for years that Freo don't do much skills training.

Some posters shout me down and say that's B S. Others say they don't need skills training because once they are on the list skills can't be improved.

What a load of shit.

Ross doesn't coach skills and his coaching staff underneath him are putrid.

I know I'm right because I've been watching training ever since day one Ross Lyon at Freo.

No need to justify yourself mate, you’re spot on. You’ve seen it, I’ve seen it, Duffield’s seen it, he’ll Ross even admitted it himself. Some people only want to see and hear what suits them and their view.

Apart from the above, it should be obvious to anyone that has watched a number of our games over the last 6 years.

 

[trentjac]

Number 1 - get a decent pair of bloody boots.

I heard Ballantyne went into business manufacturing copies of his boots.

As a favour, all the players bought a pair and wore them yesterday

 

[jedi mind tricks]

No need to justify yourself mate, you’re spot on. You’ve seen it, I’ve seen it, Duffield’s seen it, he’ll Ross even admitted it himself. Some people only want to see and hear what suits them and their view.

Apart from the above, it should be obvious to anyone that has watched a number of our games over the last 6 years.

No need to justify yourself mate, you’re spot on. You’ve seen it, I’ve seen it, Duffield’s seen it, he’ll Ross even admitted it himself. Some people only want to see and hear what suits them and their view.

Apart from the above, it should be obvious to anyone that has watched a number of our games over the last 6 years.

They spend the better part kicking to players jogging out from cones. They do basic match sim and a few run throughs.

It's similar to amatures.

I know this sounds far fetched but it's 100% correct

 

[eastfreo75]

I heard Ballantyne went into business manufacturing copies of his boots.

As a favour, all the players bought a pair and wore them yesterday

If that is the case, that's extremely unprofessional.

Do that stuff in the Pre-Season or at training.

 

[Purple Jesus]

If that is the case, that's extremely unprofessional.

Do that stuff in the Pre-Season or at training.

Not sure if srs.

 

[Zep2J]

8th in disposal efficiency

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[eastfreo75]

8th in disposal efficiencyView attachment 650754

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Stat wise the Roos game is the outlier.

 

[Monument Hills]

To add in some more stats for discussion, on AFL stats, for R3 we had 2nd highest clangers behind Richmond (66) at 65.

 

[Zep2J]

Our disposal efficiency vs North and the Saints was 73%. 69% vs Suns.

Stat wise the Roos game is the outlier.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[_007_]

Our disposal efficiency vs North and the Saints was 73%. 69% vs Suns.

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

As has been discussed a hundred times on this very forum, disposal efficiency is a misleading/useless stat as champion data consider any kick over 40 metres that isn't a direct turnover effective. Turnovers is by far the better stat imo and lo and behold we are the worst in the comp at the moment.

 

[Docker82]

As has been discussed a hundred times on this very forum, disposal efficiency is a misleading/useless stat as champion data consider any kick over 40 metres that isn't a direct turnover effective. Turnovers is by far the better stat imo and low and behold we are the worst in the comp at the moment.

Worst stat in football. Means nothing if the kick goes 40m. What would you rather:

- a short pass to a player in space.
- a long bomb to a pack where the ball hits the ground and is anyone’s to win.

Both are apparently just as effective as each other.

Absolute bullocks the stat is kept in its current form.

 

[AAACockburn]

I heard Ballantyne went into business manufacturing copies of his boots.

As a favour, all the players bought a pair and wore them yesterday

He must have a good market going in Europe. All those cheese chasers have to be buying them up in droves surely.

 

[beetz]

I've been saying this for years that Freo don't do much skills training.

Some posters shout me down and say that's B S. Others say they don't need skills training because once they are on the list skills can't be improved.

What a load of shit.

Ross doesn't coach skills and his coaching staff underneath him are putrid.

I know I'm right because I've been watching training ever since day one Ross Lyon at Freo.

You are absolutely correct 100%

 

[Retzlaff]

I've been saying this for years that Freo don't do much skills training.

Some posters shout me down and say that's B S. Others say they don't need skills training because once they are on the list skills can't be improved.

What a load of shit.

Ross doesn't coach skills and his coaching staff underneath him are putrid.

I know I'm right because I've been watching training ever since day one Ross Lyon at Freo.

Can you remember if we did more skills training under previous coaches?

 

[Fat Nyfe]

What is the definition of insanity again? That’s what it feels like watching Ross Lyon coached teams. The skills issue has been there since day dot from his time at St Kilda. Looking back at his period of ‘success’ at St Kilda and Freo 2012-2015, both strong teams;

The game plan was/is about flooding the contest. Not the backline as was the common myth. If the ball was in defence we’d flood the backline but we’d press numbers to the contest if it was in the midfield or forward line. The plan was all about winning the contest and having players with massive endurance who could get from contest to contest to create outnumbers. It’s dour because it creates a lot of stoppages and congestion. This plus poorly skilled forward thrusts = low scoring.
Lyon’s teams relied on having a dominant ruckman and big bodied midfielders who could win more contests than they lose. Both the Saints and Freo had that. The main focus was always about working incredibly hard - applying constant pressure without the ball and gut running to cover the ground when we did have it (since most players were located in a small part of the ground, they’d have to work harder to spread to get to positions they should already have been in to launch a cohesive attack). Of course the lack of skill focus doubles down the need for effort and gut running since whenever there was a turnover, which is often, the players need to spin around and head the other way.

The mammoth pressuring, endurance based effort game plan was good enough to beat most teams and make Top 4 often, but has ALWAYS been found wanting against highly skilled top teams. Ross Lyons teams have always had the worst skills of other top 4 teams which gets found out in finals when better teams punish the turnover and execute better under pressure. Hawthorn always worked hard, but not at the expense of working smart. Same for Geelong and Collingwood during Lyon’s Saints days.

It’s more or less the same now. The main difference is for the last few years we haven’t had strong big bodied players winning the contest, but we’ve still had the same poor skill execution. That’s a recipe for thrashings, which we’ve seen many.
Until we learn to improve our skill focus and execution under pressure in games, we won’t become a top team.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Can you remember if we did more skills training under previous coaches?

I didn't watch Harvey coach Freo nor any other coaches.

So it's purely Ross.

It would be interesting to know

 

[Cesoir]

I didn't watch Harvey coach Freo nor any other coaches.

So it's purely Ross.

It would be interesting to know

I watch our training almost every week, have done regularly since the Connolly days. I have also watched training at Eagles, Brisbane and Geelong (not as often obviously) and for me there is very little difference between what any of them do out on the field - I have no idea what goes on indoors. There are differences between seasons, even within season, but generally they are using training methods developed by lots of coaches and sports scientists over lots of years. We have focused more on endurance running in past years, but after the debacle that was 2015 that quickly went by the board. 2016? was more heavily focused on skills, but that was because I think the new assistant coaches ere given a bit more of a free rein and I think the skills actually went backwards that year. This year is a lot more about systems and set plays because I think we are getting closer to where we need to be list wise.

I think saying we don't practice skills is wrong, but don't take my word for it - pop down and have a look for yourself. It's a great morning if you have the time.

Again, others have views and this is just mine.

 

[blue shark]

I watch our training almost every week, have done regularly since the Connolly days. I have also watched training at Eagles, Brisbane and Geelong (not as often obviously) and for me there is very little difference between what any of them do out on the field - I have no idea what goes on indoors. There are differences between seasons, even within season, but generally they are using training methods developed by lots of coaches and sports scientists over lots of years. We have focused more on endurance running in past years, but after the debacle that was 2015 that quickly went by the board. 2016? was more heavily focused on skills, but that was because I think the new assistant coaches ere given a bit more of a free rein and I think the skills actually went backwards that year. This year is a lot more about systems and set plays because I think we are getting closer to where we need to be list wise.

I think saying we don't practice skills is wrong, but don't take my word for it - pop down and have a look for yourself. It's a great morning if you have the time.

Again, others have views and this is just mine.

Ross is probably right about basic skills in football already developed, but using those skills in set plays, where to position, blocking, and
creating time and space for you/team will instantly make our football more attacking.
Under pressure, finals footy is when skills rise to the top, and under pressure you see Freo Fumbles, working for each other, not all leading
To one spot, smalls going for unrealistic grabs is selfish or stupid.
But our best ideas, growth was when We had quality assistants that were hands on, Scott was the brains behind Harvey, God knows we need
more teamwork off the field.

 

[BlueE]

I watch our training almost every week, have done regularly since the Connolly days. I have also watched training at Eagles, Brisbane and Geelong (not as often obviously) and for me there is very little difference between what any of them do out on the field - I have no idea what goes on indoors. There are differences between seasons, even within season, but generally they are using training methods developed by lots of coaches and sports scientists over lots of years. We have focused more on endurance running in past years, but after the debacle that was 2015 that quickly went by the board. 2016? was more heavily focused on skills, but that was because I think the new assistant coaches ere given a bit more of a free rein and I think the skills actually went backwards that year. This year is a lot more about systems and set plays because I think we are getting closer to where we need to be list wise.

I think saying we don't practice skills is wrong, but don't take my word for it - pop down and have a look for yourself. It's a great morning if you have the time.

Again, others have views and this is just mine.

Practicing skills, including kicking goals both on the run and set shot in situations that duplicate the pressure of games is missing I believe. This can be done through drills that duplicate the perceived pressure or in game sims. It's well know that Simpson added an extra skills training session when he first arrived because of the poor skills they had.

It's not only this though. I've seen some of their sessions and their skills are always performed under pressures of time or speed, no cones to be seen unless its recovery. While I haven't watched our training sessions since the old oval the training reports gave me hope we were doing this as well. Once the skills become automatic under pressure they will stand up under pressure in games. Saying just go to the park and practice skills by yourself is wrong on so many levels.

The assistants basically run most of the drills and Ross was very lucky until the end of 2015 in Scott, Brett Kirk and Sumich (leaving in 2016). Ross has had to take more responsibility for the training sessions as rookies were employed to replace these excellent assistants. I wouldn't be so mad if at least some of these assistants were trying to improve knowledge and practises and if they aspired to senior positions so they were doing everything they could for excellence. There are some of the excellent coaching course available but they don't take them. I would like to see Montagna here full time assistant because he has some mongrel, knowledge and ability to analyse situation in him and encourage him to participate in the courses.

Posters on here have nailed why the pressure / all out effort game style of Ross needs to evolve but also why it probably won't.

 

[Cesoir]

Practicing skills, including kicking goals both on the run and set shot in situations that duplicate the pressure of games is missing I believe. This can be done through drills that duplicate the perceived pressure or in game sims. It's well know that Simpson added an extra skills training session when he first arrived because of the poor skills they had.

It's not only this though. I've seen some of their sessions and their skills are always performed under pressures of time or speed, no cones to be seen unless its recovery. While I haven't watched our training sessions since the old oval the training reports gave me hope we were doing this as well. Once the skills become automatic under pressure they will stand up under pressure in games. Saying just go to the park and practice skills by yourself is wrong on so many levels.

The assistants basically run most of the drills and Ross was very lucky until the end of 2015 in Scott, Brett Kirk and Sumich (leaving in 2016). Ross has had to take more responsibility for the training sessions as rookies were employed to replace these excellent assistants. I wouldn't be so mad if at least some of these assistants were trying to improve knowledge and practises and if they aspired to senior positions so they were doing everything they could for excellence. There are some of the excellent coaching course available but they don't take them. I would like to see Montagna here full time assistant because he has some mongrel, knowledge and ability to analyse situation in him and encourage him to participate in the courses.

Posters on here have nailed why the pressure / all out effort game style of Ross needs to evolve but also why it probably won't.

Don't in any way disagree with this BlueE, other than the last bit - I have some confidence that it will evolve. But I am an optimist

I thought our skills in game 1 were more than acceptable, but that was under very limited pressure. I think the more we run competitive match sims at training and the more the guys play together, those skills will start to hold up under pressure instead of crumbling as they have in the last two weeks.

Time will tell.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

I watch our training almost every week, have done regularly since the Connolly days. I have also watched training at Eagles, Brisbane and Geelong (not as often obviously) and for me there is very little difference between what any of them do out on the field - I have no idea what goes on indoors. There are differences between seasons, even within season, but generally they are using training methods developed by lots of coaches and sports scientists over lots of years. We have focused more on endurance running in past years, but after the debacle that was 2015 that quickly went by the board. 2016? was more heavily focused on skills, but that was because I think the new assistant coaches ere given a bit more of a free rein and I think the skills actually went backwards that year. This year is a lot more about systems and set plays because I think we are getting closer to where we need to be list wise.

I think saying we don't practice skills is wrong, but don't take my word for it - pop down and have a look for yourself. It's a great morning if you have the time.

Again, others have views and this is just mine.

I can't today I'm working. We have obviously crossed paths but you have a new alias.

Training is very simplistic

 

[Cesoir]

I can't today I'm working. We have obviously crossed paths but you have a new alias.

Training is very simplistic

Yeah, I meant for others to try to get down to form their own opinions if they can. Seems most of the watchers have stopped posting these days.

We have met on a few occasions and you are a top bloke. Always respect your opinions, just don't always agree with them. That's all good

 

[DMan 11]

I heard Adam Simpson on P-argh last night, haze asked him about whether they train skills much and if this has increased in past years.
Simmo seemed to answer honestly that no they didn’t focus on it and no they haven’t increased skills load.
He also commented they don’t rule out a draftee if skills aren’t top notch.

Something doesn’t add up there ...



On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Yeah, I meant for others to try to get down to form their own opinions if they can. Seems most of the watchers have stopped posting these days.

We have met on a few occasions and you are a top bloke. Always respect your opinions, just don't always agree with them. That's all good

Thanks mate, a top bloke might be overstating it.

I have been a lot more critical lately. I don't get as much time lately but it feels that the intensity isn't there compared to early Lyon seasons.

 

[Dale147]

I remember back in my youth and training nights always finished off with half an hour of circle work. Refine kicking and marking skills.