Toast Our recruting staff/management.

[Alpha1]

Have done a great job, I think they have consciously tried to recruit mature, intelligent kids into our squad. Every article I have read when our kids have been interviewed has showed how mature and thoughtful they are when they speak. I for one am very happy with this simple fact, I think it's very important to have kids who have good heads on their shoulders and we at Carlton are very lucky indeed that we have real quality on our list. It's one thing having talent to burn, it's quite another to have maturity & intelligence. When you mix those two things with talent, look out world. What are you thoughts on this?.

 

[I LOVE THE CFC]

Yep! I'm really just adding something as this thread seems to be strugglin!!

 

[Alpha1]

I guess the mods might as well delete this thread, it's a flop of the highest order.

 

[Crippa#9]

Its great to see the talk and hype surrounding Robinson, really looking forward to seeing him play, he could be the real tough rebounding backman / winger we need to support Walker. I would like, however to see more of Yarran, e.g Interviews, training footage etc, Is he expected to play Rd.1?

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Its great to see the talk and hype surrounding Robinson, really looking forward to seeing him play, he could be the real tough rebounding backman / winger we need to support Walker. I would like, however to see more of Yarran, e.g Interviews, training footage etc, Is he expected to play Rd.1?[/quote]

Agre, its very quiet for a 1st round pick, maybe the club is doing that on purpose to take the pressure off him, but a little more info on him wouldnt hurt. as for first round, you would expect him to play, but there has really been nothing coming out to say that he will or wont be, guess we will just have to wait abit longer to find out. If he is named next week for the NAB cup game theres a fair chance he will be available come round 1.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Its great to see the talk and hype surrounding Robinson, really looking forward to seeing him play, he could be the real tough rebounding backman / winger we need to support Walker. I would like, however to see more of Yarran, e.g Interviews, training footage etc, Is he expected to play Rd.1?[/quote]

Agre, its very quiet for a 1st round pick, maybe the club is doing that on purpose to take the pressure off him, but a little more info on him wouldnt hurt. as for first round, you would expect him to play, but there has really been nothing coming out to say that he will or wont be, guess we will just have to wait abit longer to find out. If he is named next week for the NAB cup game theres a fair chance he will be available come round 1.

It is also widely reported that he is extremely shy, so perhaps not so surprising that he may want to shun the limelight and let his footy do his talking. He started to come out of his shell a little at draft camp and perhaps part of his training might also be public speaking and media handling. He may need it if he fires for us early and reporters start to pester for on the spot, mic in your face, on the ground interviews.

I think Ratts has already said he and Robbo will play next weekend, so we wont have to wait much longer to see just how good this pair can be. I am just disappointed that we wont see Warnock in action for us for a while. We got smashed in the ruck last year and it would be great to at least be competetive.

 

[Alpha1]

It's good we are shielding Yarran. If the kid is shy then make sure we protect him as much as possible from the media. I would rather his performances on the field do all the talking.

 

[Feva]

In fairness, not alot to write about Yarran anyway!

Hasn't been training that well and got 1 kick in the Indigenous game. Fair to say he has struggled.

In saying that, can't wait to see him explode on the AFL scene which he will do.

 

[Alpha1]

In fairness, not alot to write about Yarran anyway!

Hasn't been training that well and got 1 kick in the Indigenous game. Fair to say he has struggled.

In saying that, can't wait to see him explode on the AFL scene which he will do.

What seems to be the problem with his training?. Is he carrying a injury or something?.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Perhaps he is the type of player that rises to occasions and will play well as soon as the heat is on. And will absolutely star on the big stages, like the 80000 crowd blockbusters.
Lets hope so.

 

[40yearBLUE]

I thought I would comment on the OP as nobody really has yet.

Our recruiting staff and management generally have been excellent for the past couple of seasons. For the period from about 96 to 2002 they gradually declined to the point where by the time Elliot was ousted our management ceased to function properly. It couldnt, having been under the Yoke of an autocrat for so long, it didnt know how, in the same way that people struggled at first with freedom after the collapse of communism, no one had to make descisions for them selves for so long that they forgot how to. The boards of Collins and then Smorgon were divided, the managers unable to manage and chaos ruled. In effect this power vaccuum left by Elliots departure kept us down longer than needed. We were a laughing stock and Caroline Wilson did a story to that effect over the sacking then non sacking of Pagan and the treatment of Barry Mitchel. Once Pratt was co opted to lead, the right descisions started to be made, the right people started to be recruited and the path we are now on was mapped out.

I am a firm beleiver in top down success. For example, the reason why the Hawks were able to win a flag last season and the Cat the season before have more to do with Kennett and Costa rather than Buddy and G Ablett Jnr. As much as we debate players strengths and weaknesses, they are just the tools of the tradespeople in the back office.

Conversely the Saints have had the players to suceed for the past 4 or 5 seasons, their window was wide open (and is now closing) but they failed to take that final step, not even making a grand final in that time. I beleive the reason for this is the management they had. Firstly Butterss and then more importantly Grant Thomas. Lets face it, Thomas was an unlikely coach and the Saints gave him almost unfettered power over selection, recruiting in fact the entire football department. (Having one mind in control of all vital football descisions not unlike the way Elliot was unchallengable toward the end of his time is extremely dangerous if that mind is no longer making good decisions.)

Dont even get me started on the Tigers and Miller. They were so poorly run they couldnt even make the 8 let alone a grand final and this again has to be managements fault. In a way finishing just out of the finals year after year was an even bigger indictment than falling all the way down and rebuilding the list properly.

So now that we have strong management and a unified board we have the foundation again for success. The onfield success is the final outcome of the good management descisions being taken. The good management usually preceeds onfield (ultimate) success by about 3 or 4 years, that is, it takes them that long to get things back into shape, sometimes the club needs to fall even further before they get it back on the up. Unfortunately for us there was no lower we could fall. We were already at the bottom.
But we are now on the cusp of tasting success again. It is not a matter of if any more. And is not a hope or guess, it is the natural next step of the good management process.

So when Juddy finally lifts that cup in a year or 2, remember that Swann, Sticks but ultimately Pratt (without Pratt there would be no Swann or Judd and probably no Sticks as Pres because I believe it is his guiding hand behind Sticks being there anyway) are the real reason he is in that position.

 

[mediumsizered]

This is an excellent post. Good work, 30.

 

[Warsaw]

There's probably been more written on him than there has been on Jack Watts. Don't mind it one bit that the club's sort of shielded him from media. Robbo's been the one to speak out more because he can do it well. Come start of the season or at least next week we'll see them both shine.


And to stay on topic kudos to you mr hughes in recruiting two gems for the Carlton Footy Club.

 

[Alpha1]

I thought I would comment on the OP as nobody really has yet.

Our recruiting staff and management generally have been excellent for the past couple of seasons. For the period from about 96 to 2002 they gradually declined to the point where by the time Elliot was ousted our management ceased to function properly. It couldnt, having been under the Yoke of an autocrat for so long, it didnt know how, in the same way that people struggled at first with freedom after the collapse of communism, no one had to make descisions for them selves for so long that they forgot how to. The boards of Collins and then Smorgon were divided, the managers unable to manage and chaos ruled. In effect this power vaccuum left by Elliots departure kept us down longer than needed. We were a laughing stock and Caroline Wilson did a story to that effect over the sacking then non sacking of Pagan and the treatment of Barry Mitchel. Once Pratt was co opted to lead, the right descisions started to be made, the right people started to be recruited and the path we are now on was mapped out.

I am a firm beleiver in top down success. For example, the reason why the Hawks were able to win a flag last season and the Cat the season before have more to do with Kennett and Costa rather than Buddy and G Ablett Jnr. As much as we debate players strengths and weaknesses, they are just the tools of the tradespeople in the back office.

Conversely the Saints have had the players to suceed for the past 4 or 5 seasons, their window was wide open (and is now closing) but they failed to take that final step, not even making a grand final in that time. I beleive the reason for this is the management they had. Firstly Butterss and then more importantly Grant Thomas. Lets face it, Thomas was an unlikely coach and the Saints gave him almost unfettered power over selection, recruiting in fact the entire football department. (Having one mind in control of all vital football descisions not unlike the way Elliot was unchallengable toward the end of his time is extremely dangerous if that mind is no longer making good decisions.)

Dont even get me started on the Tigers and Miller. They were so poorly run they couldnt even make the 8 let alone a grand final and this again has to be managements fault. In a way finishing just out of the finals year after year was an even bigger indictment than falling all the way down and rebuilding the list properly.

So now that we have strong management and a unified board we have the foundation again for success. The onfield success is the final outcome of the good management descisions being taken. The good management usually preceeds onfield (ultimate) success by about 3 or 4 years, that is, it takes them that long to get things back into shape, sometimes the club needs to fall even further before they get it back on the up. Unfortunately for us there was no lower we could fall. We were already at the bottom.
But we are now on the cusp of tasting success again. It is not a matter of if any more. And is not a hope or guess, it is the natural next step of the good management process.

So when Juddy finally lifts that cup in a year or 2, remember that Swann, Sticks but ultimately Pratt (without Pratt there would be no Swann or Judd and probably no Sticks as Pres because I believe it is his guiding hand behind Sticks being there anyway) are the real reason he is in that position.

wow 30 great post mate. Good read as well, like you said the Saints had a great chance for the flag for 3 - 4 years. But the culture at the club was that of loosing, it's a hard thing to shake as they had been at the bottom of the ladder for a few decades.

I sort of disagree with you about the Tigers. I think in the last 2 years they have actually been trying to recruit some good young talent. Their midfield is going to be a very strong one and will see them through for at least the next 5 - 10 years. They still need a replacement for Richo who is a champion, and players like him are hard to replace. I think in the coming years we will see the Tigers really pushing teams hard.

Our window is similar to the Saints a few years ago we have to make the most of it. The Saints wasted the opportunity's they did have, and their windows is closing quickly. The Hawks and the Cats still have a few years left, it just depends what the chasing pack like the Bulldogs, Carlton, Richmond, Collingwood etc can do to stop them winning anymore flags.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

wow 30 great post mate. Good read as well, like you said the Saints had a great chance for the flag for 3 - 4 years. But the culture at the club was that of loosing, it's a hard thing to shake as they had been at the bottom of the ladder for a few decades.

Then tell me this year's premier,
it should be a monty based on the above.

Players make the game, on the day.
The meows lost ONE game for the whole year
You think Ablett, and others don't count,
you are kidding yourself,
and the back room blokes caused it??

Bollocks.

 

[40yearBLUE]

wow 30 great post mate. Good read as well, like you said the Saints had a great chance for the flag for 3 - 4 years. But the culture at the club was that of loosing, it's a hard thing to shake as they had been at the bottom of the ladder for a few decades.

I sort of disagree with you about the Tigers. I think in the last 2 years they have actually been trying to recruit some good young talent. Their midfield is going to be a very strong one and will see them through for at least the next 5 - 10 years. They still need a replacement for Richo who is a champion, and players like him are hard to replace. I think in the coming years we will see the Tigers really pushing teams hard.

Our window is similar to the Saints a few years ago we have to make the most of it. The Saints wasted the opportunity's they did have, and their windows is closing quickly. The Hawks and the Cats still have a few years left, it just depends what the chasing pack like the Bulldogs, Carlton, Richmond, Collingwood etc can do to stop them winning anymore flags.

This topic has been done to death in other threads, especeally when the tiger rabble come onto the board looking for a stir, so I wont go into too much but,

I stand to be corrected of course and I dont have any special insight into the working of the RFC, but just observing them from outside as you do, the way they handled the Cousins recruiting spoke volumes about thier discipline as an organisation. The statements they released about whether they would recruit Cousins in the days leading up to PSD day reminded me of Elaine explaining to Jerry what it was like to date a 65 year old man, "I love being with him; I like being with him"; Its ok being with him" then she split up with him. This is a paraphrased version of press statements during the week: "We defineately wont be drafting him". Then the night before Cameron is trotted out and says: "It is highly unlikely we will draft him" then they draft him and Wallets says on PSD day "We were always going to draft him". The club seemed to buckle under the pressure of ferrel fans picketing Punt road. These are not the actions of a strong, united and focused management. IMO the only reason Caroline Wilson did not give them a bake (although Mike Sheehan did) is her close assosiation with the club, she certainly gave our board one.

As to the Tigers list, they already had 5 players over 30 (Bowden, Brown, Johnson Richo, Simmonds) and a few more in the late 20's (Coglan, McMahon, Newman, Pettifer, Tuck), all are fairly pivotal to their current team and they recruit another in Cousins, so their window will need to open very rapidly if they are to figure in it, once they are gone I dont beleive they will be as competetive (if you could call them that). Thats nearly half a team in the second half or final phase of their footy. This list management, to have so many players all retire at once reminds me of another team that had poor management that had a number of ageing stars all retire in a short period (SOS, Sticks, Diesel, Dean, Sexton) or some played on a while but were clearly past their best but because the list was so poor it was almost considered weak to leave us even more exposed (McKay, Braddles, Ratts). You cant carry that many aged players and not expect a big fall coming. That is poor management. Short term thinking, people protecting their jobs, not making the tough decisions. We all know what we went through and I see parallels.

So I dont agree with you that the Tigers have recruited well. They have a few good young kids, but all lists do. All lists also have some experience to pass on some knowledge but the key is in the blending. Good managers do it well, poor managers dont.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Then tell me this year's premier,
it should be a monty based on the above.

Players make the game, on the day.
The meows lost ONE game for the whole year
You think Ablett, and others don't count,
you are kidding yourself,
and the back room blokes caused it??

Bollocks.

I didnt say players dont count. But we are talking here of the chicken or the egg. How do good players come together to form great teams? By Luck? By lottery?
No by management. Poor management = poor recruiting = uncompetetive teams.
The reason why Carlton were a power for 25 -30 years from the late 60's was a succession of great adminstrators who in turn hired the best recruiters and coaches who in turn picked the best players. Even though there wasnt a draft, Sticks and Braddles and all of the champions over the years (I could fill a page with them) needed to be scouted, then enticed to the club. Do you think this happened by accident? No it was carefully managed.

So I again assert that teams with good management win, those without wont.

 

[Pafloyul]

Then tell me this year's premier,
it should be a monty based on the above.

Players make the game, on the day.
The meows lost ONE game for the whole year
You think Ablett, and others don't count,
you are kidding yourself,
and the back room blokes caused it??

Bollocks.

Yes, it sounded like hollow rhetoric to me. As if the poster was trying to psych himself up. You need both. If more than one club has everything else right then it certainly does come down to the playing list. You also have to remember who, in terms of players, got you to that position in the first place regardless of whether they were particularly influential on the day.

We are on the up but there is certainly no reason to be smug yet.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

I didnt say players dont count. But we are talking here of the chicken or the egg. How do good players come together to form great teams? By Luck? By lottery?
No by management. Poor management = poor recruiting = uncompetetive teams.
The reason why Carlton were a power for 25 -30 years from the late 60's was a succession of great adminstrators who in turn hired the best recruiters and coaches who in turn picked the best players. Even though there wasnt a draft, Sticks and Braddles and all of the champions over the years (I could fill a page with them) needed to be scouted, then enticed to the club. Do you think this happened by accident? No it was carefully managed.

So I again assert that teams with good management win, those without wont.

Dips my lid to you 30year.
The calmest person to ever post here,

but i disagree.

 

[Pafloyul]

I didnt say players dont count. But we are talking here of the chicken or the egg. How do good players come together to form great teams? By Luck? By lottery?
No by management. Poor management = poor recruiting = uncompetetive teams.
The reason why Carlton were a power for 25 -30 years from the late 60's was a succession of great adminstrators who in turn hired the best recruiters and coaches who in turn picked the best players. Even though there wasnt a draft, Sticks and Braddles and all of the champions over the years (I could fill a page with them) needed to be scouted, then enticed to the club. Do you think this happened by accident? No it was carefully managed.

So I again assert that teams with good management win, those without wont.

We haven't won yet (if ever). Continue with the spin if you must but I still say it is hollow when more than one team can do all the 'right' things too.

When you are starting from a damaged position you need just as much inspiration as you do 'sound' management.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

I hope we go really well this year.

Thumbs up.

 

[40yearBLUE]

We haven't won yet (if ever). Continiue with the spin if you must but I still say it is hollow when more than one team can do all the 'right' things too.

When you are starting from a damaged position you need just as much inspiration as you do 'sound' management.

Of course. But you are reading too much into the idea. Put it this way, if only 1 club was well managed and the rest were a rabble who do you thing would win most of the time? Its not rocket science. But all of this is easier said than done. Do you think the poorly managed clubs think they are poorly managed? It is a fine line, and it is not a year by year thing. The club that wins the flag is not necesarily the best managed club that year. There are many variables including injury and luck, even as the previous poster pointed out, some teams lose only once for the entire year but it happens to be the GF. But poorly managed clubs dont get close. History shows us this. Do you think it is a coincidence that West Coast has won 3 flags in its short history but Freo have barely made the finals (I think just 1 appearance).

And inspiration by the way has to be cultivated too, it cant be faked. It is created by good, solid foundations for the underlying confidence to be built on. That too comes from management. So I dont agree it is spin. It is common sense stuff.

And have a little more faith mate, we are gonna win one soon.

 

[Pafloyul]

Of course. But you are reading too much into the idea. Put it this way, if only 1 club was well managed and the rest were a rabble who do you thing would win most of the time? Its not rocket science. But all of this is easier said than done. Do you think the poorly managed clubs think they are poorly managed? It is a fine line, and it is not a year by year thing. The club that wins the flag is not necesarily the best managed club that year. There are many variables including injury and luck, even as the previous poster pointed out, some teams lose only once for the entire year but it happens to be the GF. But poorly managed clubs dont get close. History shows us this. Do you think it is a coincidence that West Coast has won 3 flags in its short history but Freo have barely made the finals (I think just 1 appearance).

And inspiration by the way has to be cultivated too, it cant be faked. It is created by good, solid foundations for the underlying confidence to be built on. That too comes from management. So I dont agree it is spin. It is common sense stuff.

And have a little more faith mate, we are gonna win one soon.

Fair enough. I'm running at about 80-90% at the moment but I'm a perfectionist. I just believe that those years of finishing on the bottom had more of an impact on us regaining a reasonably strong position than we care to admit. Coming from the position we were in if we had just managed to win the extra few games I think we could have been up the creek without a paddle. I think our still lowly position could have blinded us to a few things and I don't believe we would have been able to compensate for not having prime position in the draft.

While I don't doubt that we are running the club strongly at the moment it is that 10-20 percent that I'm concerned about. I still think that people have a tendency to forget that the Kreuzers, Judds and Gibbs of this world did not come to the club through good management. Our recruiting has had more to do with fortuity and money than it has with 'good management'.

 

[Alpha1]

We have been lucky that our drop to the bottom of the table has only lasted about 6 - 7 years. Saints got entrenched into the bottom half for decades, hence their inability to win a GF when they had the chance.

 

[40yearBLUE]

Fair enough. I'm running at about 80-90% at the moment but I'm a perfectionist. I just believe that those years of finishing on the bottom had more of an impact on us regaining a reasonably strong position than we care to admit. Coming from the position we were in if we had just managed to win the extra few games I think we could have been up the creek without a paddle. I think our still lowly position could have blinded us to a few things and I don't believe we would have been able to compensate for not having prime position in the draft.

While I don't doubt that we are running the club strongly at the moment it is that 10-20 percent that I'm concerned about. I still think that people have a tendency to forget that the Kreuzers, Judds and Gibbs of this world did not come to the club through good management. Our recruiting has had more to do with fortuity and money than it has with 'good management'.

All clubs have a few champs in the line up. Some end up with 7 or 8 of them such as Brisbane had for a while, 3 Brownlow medalists in the same line up but they are not always as a result of having the first pick each year like we did. They are the result of good recruiting and list management, when and who to trade, when and who to tap on the shoulder and give them the hard word and then who to pick. Some of the best picks were not first rounders. I think Hird was taken in the 70's, Fev in the 40's. The Murphs, Gibbs and Kruezers (and Walker) are fresh in our minds because we had the 3 1st picks in a row.
But the difference between competetive and not is usually not the top 6 because most clubs have them, it is the bottom 6 and just how much depth there is.
For example, Armfield pick 46, Browne pick 36, Austin pick 35, Anderson 67, Edwards 36, Bower 20, Hartlett 25, Simpson 45, Fisher 72.

It is how many of these lower picks end up being solid contributors that decide if we are to be competetive. And this is all down to good recruiting which comes under the banner of management.

Finally money did not get Judd to the club, exept that we had a lower salary usage because so many on the list were young and not yet on the big money. But each club now has the same overall cap give or take. Where the money comes in is in facilities. We now have the money for proper coaching and fitness crew, proper training facilities or at least they are coming in the redevelopment and should kick in as our team starts to get amongst it. That extra 10-20% you speak of is coming. I dont think we are quite there yet. I think we are closer than you seem to think but still a year or 2 away from a flag, but I have tipped we can hit top 4 this year, we were only 3 wins off last year and we lost some soft games (richmond rd 1, both essendon games, Sydney by 2 points) ....games I expect us to win this year.

But isnt it great to feel we can for a change instead of wishing we could.