Pagan Contract Blues

[Bluebear]

Aparently The Age (Carro Wilson) will run a story Wed about Pagan and Board at odds over promotions contract.
God I hope this isn't the begining of a S#%t storm.
Not sure of the details. Just heard it on SEN.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

i dont give a f#^T# any more .... somebody wake me once Pagans gone.

 

[a1118374]

im pretty sure most of us are starting to accept its gonna be pagan and its not that bad.
were a lot better than before, just look at the numerous improvements in players. and hes steered away from the flooding which is a great sign (although sometimes late in games). when hes played us one on one were looked significantly better. good signs being shown. more body on our young midfielders and a tough preseason for all and next season we should look for 6-8 wins i'd say depending on if some teams fall badly from above more could be had

 

[Effes]

Pagan and Blues clash over cash

 

[Jimthegreat]

im pretty sure most of us are starting to accept its gonna be pagan and its not that bad.
were a lot better than before, just look at the numerous improvements in players. and hes steered away from the flooding which is a great sign (although sometimes late in games). when hes played us one on one were looked significantly better. good signs being shown. more body on our young midfielders and a tough preseason for all and next season we should look for 6-8 wins i'd say depending on if some teams fall badly from above more could be had

Pity we win less games every year. Individual improvement and team inmprovement are world's apart, the latter being the coach's domain, the former not necessarily so.

I think Pagan knows he's in trouble, well, sort of as the payout will be nice. Smorgon has point-blank refused to guarantee his position next year.

 

[Bluebear]

Pity we win less games every year. Individual improvement and team inmprovement are world's apart, the latter being the coach's domain, the former not necessarily so.

I think Pagan knows he's in trouble, well, sort of as the payout will be nice. Smorgon has point-blank refused to guarantee his position next year.

Just finished reading that crap piece of Journalism.
Over half the article is rehash of alleged assistant coaching restructures and AFL grants etc.
First part relates to ongoing marketing contract issue since Dennis joined the club.
The question is why would Wilson choose now to produce such crap - not enough positive news to report on - sorry Carro that's P - O - S - I - T - I - V - E. Look it up.
Back to the other threads in whats clearly a slow news week.

Hey Jim, very convenient that the improvements are not the coaches responsibility, but you're superficial view of how we have gone backwards is.
We all wish life was so simple.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Just finished reading that crap piece of Journalism.
Over half the article is rehash of alleged assistant coaching restructures and AFL grants etc.
First part relates to ongoing marketing contract issue since Dennis joined the club.
The question is why would Wilson choose now to produce such crap - not enough positive news to report on - sorry Carro that's P - O - S - I - T - I - V - E. Look it up.
Back to the other threads in whats clearly a slow news week.

Hey Jim, very convenient that the improvements are not the coaches responsibility, but you're superficial view of how we have gone backwards is.
We all wish life was so simple.

It's your simplistic view. They are lot's of reasons why young players improve, and that's in any sport. Can be because of the coach ro in spite of him. Can be due to experience , maturity, physical size, developemnt of skills, and other facets by simp0le training and playing. IOf we do anything for long enough at a certain level, we generally improve. This improvement then may or may not be enahnced by the coach. alot of our players have improved no end. On the other hand, playing as a TEAM is the coach's domain. On one hand our players are certainly getting better individually, on the other hand we win less games each year, and with the same percentage (7 wins less than 2 years ago, and even less than last year's embarrassment....and that's the bottom line to it all.......wins!). If the coach was doing well BOTH our players and team would improve in some sort of proportion, which we're not. There going in opposite directions and we've got back to back spoons. Am I making something very simple for you. Go figure it out, it' s not hard! Amazing how you can work things out when you think beyond simple.

 

[BlackGoanna]

It's your simplistic view. They are lot's of reasons why young players improve, and that's in any sport. Can be because of the coach ro in spite of him. Can be due to experience , maturity, physical size, developemnt of skills, and other facets by simp0le training and playing. IOf we do anything for long enough at a certain level, we generally improve. This improvement then may or may not be enahnced by the coach. alot of our players have improved no end. On the other hand, playing as a TEAM is the coach's domain. On one hand our players are certainly getting better individually, on the other hand we win less games each year, and with the same percentage (7 wins less than 2 years ago, and even less than last year's embarrassment....and that's the bottom line to it all.......wins!). If the coach was doing well BOTH our players and team would improve in some sort of proportion, which we're not. There going in opposite directions and we've got back to back spoons. Am I making something very simple for you. Go figure it out, it' s not hard! Amazing how you can work things out when you think beyond simple.

Poor trading policies between mid 90's and 2002, coupled with drafting restrictions in 03 and 04 created a downturn with the lack of available talent.

Pagan took over at the start of a 5 year downturn. He managed to plug it up in his first year by bringing in some recycled players. There was no way he or anyway else could stop the slide. He simply, and I say it again, simply, did not have the talent coming through from years of negelect in trading the right qulaity players and draft restrictions.

We are at the bottom of that cycle, it is and will be all up hill from here.

This should not be an argument about Pagans abilities as a coach. Whether he can coach or not is irrelevant to our win loss ratio.

 

[as0l0]

and that's the bottom line to it all.......wins!

there's only one win that counts and so far we hav had 16 of them. I think a lot of people here can see the progress towards the 17th win.

For example, Denis has showed patience with Andrew Walker and now he is turning into a truly great player. Persisted with Simpson who is turning into a good solid player and person. Moved Lance to defence and re-invented him as a footballer. Done an amazing job with Setanta who is going to be a freak. Fev speaks for himself. These are the type of players that will get us the 17th win.

 

[bibi01]

there's only one win that counts and so far we hav had 16 of them. I think a lot of people here can see the progress towards the 17th win.

For example, Denis has showed patience with Andrew Walker and now he is turning into a truly great player. Persisted with Simpson who is turning into a good solid player and person. Moved Lance to defence and re-invented him as a footballer. Done an amazing job with Setanta who is going to be a freak. Fev speaks for himself. These are the type of players that will get us the 17th win.

as0l0- some very good poinst there

its all about winning premierships and to win premierships you need to build for it and work really, really hard to get there, along the way you need some luck as well.

pagan is building a team that when they reach the top they will be there for a number of years. 4, 5 maybe 6 years
ie brisbane 4 GF appearances
port power top 2 4 years running

we are not going to be like melbourne in 2000 who had 1 shot at winning a premiership

 

[bibi01]

It's your simplistic view. They are lot's of reasons why young players improve, and that's in any sport. Can be because of the coach ro in spite of him. Can be due to experience , maturity, physical size, developemnt of skills, and other facets by simp0le training and playing. IOf we do anything for long enough at a certain level, we generally improve. This improvement then may or may not be enahnced by the coach. alot of our players have improved no end. On the other hand, playing as a TEAM is the coach's domain. On one hand our players are certainly getting better individually, on the other hand we win less games each year, and with the same percentage (7 wins less than 2 years ago, and even less than last year's embarrassment....and that's the bottom line to it all.......wins!). If the coach was doing well BOTH our players and team would improve in some sort of proportion, which we're not. There going in opposite directions and we've got back to back spoons. Am I making something very simple for you. Go figure it out, it' s not hard! Amazing how you can work things out when you think beyond simple.

no 1 person is responsible for anything, football is a team game

if your coach is doing a poor job then it's likely that the team will not get results,
but on the same hand if the players can't carry out the gameplan and get the basic skills of the game right, then again, you will not get results

coaches can't make decisions for players on gameday, only the players can do that.

i don't agree with everything pagan has done, but he alone is not to blame.

 

[Bluebear]

It's your simplistic view. They are lot's of reasons why young players improve, and that's in any sport. Can be because of the coach ro in spite of him. Can be due to experience , maturity, physical size, developemnt of skills, and other facets by simp0le training and playing. IOf we do anything for long enough at a certain level, we generally improve. This improvement then may or may not be enahnced by the coach. alot of our players have improved no end. On the other hand, playing as a TEAM is the coach's domain. On one hand our players are certainly getting better individually, on the other hand we win less games each year, and with the same percentage (7 wins less than 2 years ago, and even less than last year's embarrassment....and that's the bottom line to it all.......wins!). If the coach was doing well BOTH our players and team would improve in some sort of proportion, which we're not. There going in opposite directions and we've got back to back spoons. Am I making something very simple for you. Go figure it out, it' s not hard! Amazing how you can work things out when you think beyond simple.

Now who's being simplistic.
Agree totally with ability to carry out game plan post.
JTG - make sure you read and understand my response to your post under "IF Dennis Pagan is to be sacked" thread. Would be interested in your comments rather than the same old lines.

 

[avid blue supporter]

Aparently The Age (Carro Wilson) will run a story Wed about Pagan and Board at odds over promotions contract.
God I hope this isn't the begining of a S#%t storm.
Not sure of the details. Just heard it on SEN.

Why take any notice of this stupid bimbo. She never misses a chance to pot Carlton or pump up Richmond's tyres.

There are some simple facts here:
1. Pagan has a 2 year contract that will be honoured.

2. The team is starting to play well and the kids are beginning to
come through.

3. Have a look at Pagan's history, he was a successful U19's coach.
Where do you think the bulk of the North side of the 90's came
from - Pagan's U19s. He developed the kids and look what happened.
Have a look at what is happening at Carlton and the Bullants now!

Rather than wasting time reading Wilson's useless article take out to the little house out the back, hang on a hook on the wall and then use it wipe your a*** and finally get some good use out of it.

She wouldn't write a complimentary piece on Carton if her life depended on it!

 

[CattyBossDog]

There are some simple facts here:
#1...
#2...
#3...

You missed #4...which should have been #1...

When it comes to football, in any way, shape, or form - Caroline Wilson wouldn't know sh** from clay!

How a newspaper can claim any form of credibility with someone like her writing for it is completely beyond me.



Wtf didn't I discover BF 6 years ago?

 

[celtic_pride]

Just on Pagan, ask yourselves is he getting the best out of the players ?
Apart From Fev and the improving form of Simpson etc, it appears that none of the players on our list (from when Pagan took over) have actually made some tangible improvement in the 3 or 4 years since Pagan's been in charge.
If we didn't have an massive debt or Pagan having 2 years left on his contract, he would have been gone by now.

 

[Bluebear]

Just on Pagan, ask yourselves is he getting the best out of the players ?
Apart From Fev and the improving form of Simpson etc, it appears that none of the players on our list (from when Pagan took over) have actually made some tangible improvement in the 3 or 4 years since Pagan's been in charge.
If we didn't have an massive debt or Pagan having 2 years left on his contract, he would have been gone by now.

Keep an eye out for my season in review thread for an answer to this post CP.
Seems you're already mounting an arguement against yourself.......but no fear....help is on the way soon.

 

[avid blue supporter]

You missed #4...which should have been #1...

When it comes to football, in any way, shape, or form - Caroline Wilson wouldn't know sh** from clay!

How a newspaper can claim any form of credibility with someone like her writing for it is completely beyond me.



Wtf didn't I discover BF 6 years ago?

Sorry, I must have been in a daze not to pick up your point. Wilson still hasn't got over Carlton fixing up the Tigers in 72 (I'm still not sure if I have recovered from the celebrations of that one - what a night doesn't cover what I got up to) or 82 when Johnno went berserk and we gave them another nice old touchup.