Pagan = Finished

[ShlomoGlickstein]

Take this one square on the chin Dennis. You have no excuses now, 59 years old and counting, too old to go back and coach the little league. Sure I got a quote in the HUN to be patient in the 'anti Pagan petition', but you're becoming more predicatable than a Collingwood supporter in Laverton Lockup.. But another SMASHING LOSS is unfolding as I type. Back to my 'three strikes yr out' thread. How are you gonna explain today's butchering in Adeliade? HEre, I'll make some up for you:

'They really butchered the ball today'

'We've only played 6 bad quarters all year.'

'This result doesn't really match up with their work-rate'.

'It's hard when your best two forwards are out'

'You don't know how hard it's been down here in Carlton'

'I can't really explain what happened today.'

'We're a really young side, please be patient, it will happen...'


etc...etc...et..BLOODY CETRA...

here are things what you should be saying:

'I must be getting old, must be time for me to try out something different, I've achieved all I can in this game.. I'm looking at buying a winery, seeting my kids up with some property and a world cruise with the missus with the nearly $3million this generous, bankrupt club have paid me the last 4 years...'


'What do you expect when you've got the leagues best receiever as yr centreman, Ryan Houlihan getting 30 junk-possessions each week, two of the WORST defenders in the league, an Accountant who can't play and an Irishman who can't kick, a disinterested over-it Greek athlete getting $1million per year to pick up the ball with one hand each week, and some of the most shellshocked interstate draft picks in recent times. Sh1t, even the kids would feel p1ssed off, and I don't blame them!'

'That bum Tony Elshaugh, I thought he'd help me out. The guy can't pick a booger from his own nose, let alone talented AFL footballers. Libba is tooo worried about purchasing a LaPorchetta franchises, and Terry and Garry are still recovering from the 80s, when the 15 metre penalty was still a rule and a push in the back was just that, rather than a tap on the arse. Hey I didn't pick these guys, THEY PICKED ME!'

 

[BlueBelle]

Yep, same old bull excuses like every post match press conference. Surely he has a clause in his contract stating that no results means thrown out with the trash which means he doesn't get his $$$. Surely they were smart enough to put that in his contractm he signed til the end of 2008! (what the hell were they thinking?)

 

[blues4flag]

Better quarter, good work by the Blues. Let's see if we can keep it up.

 

[irish_setanta]

Im the first to admit that after last week i was looking for his head, but whats been said during the week and in todays paper is true, we need time and no one could have us in a better position than we are now in,Comments made by sheldon today imo where correct and good, anyone older than walker and waite should be used as trade bait, Pagan is rebuilding and in ten years from now when we have the financial and draft penaltys way behind us we will be a better club. IMO Parkin should never be let near carlton again, he is alot to blame with the problems we have today.

 

[Stanton]

Im the first to admit that after last week i was looking for his head, but whats been said during the week and in todays paper is true, we need time and no one could have us in a better position than we are now in,Comments made by sheldon today imo where correct and good, anyone older than walker and waite should be used as trade bait, Pagan is rebuilding and in ten years from now when we have the financial and draft penaltys way behind us we will be a better club. IMO Parkin should never be let near carlton again, he is alot to blame with the problems we have today.

Why Parkin? won us a premiership in 95.

 

[as0l0]

what did you think would change between this week and last? we are still the same team with the same flaws. did you think something would happen during the week that would make us beat the premiership favourite at thier home ground?

 

[ShlomoGlickstein]

A good quarter, then business as usual...Sure they get a run on, but the guys don't get angry, they wilt and let dopes take speccies like that dude did over McGrath..HoHum..And the defensive decisions! OH WHOAH! CAn'T WE RUN THE BLOODY BALL OUTTA THE BACK 50? WHY KICK TO FLOODING FLANKS? WHY ISN'T BRYAN OUT THERE ARE A LONG DEFENSIVE KICKER??

We really are the worst team since Fitzroy in the 90s. Oh well, Dimisimtrious' 'fair' draft will be working for us this year, again, but watch Elshaugh and Libba and the rest of the recruitment Drongo squad - is Kerna in there? - stuff it up with some of our trades, like those pearlers, Longmuir and Chambers...Where's the guillotine when you need one?

 

[irish_setanta]

Why Parkin? won us a premiership in 95.

Who did he get in the draft after 95? steven o'reilly? mick mcguine? hardly good choices in my eyes.

 

[Stanton]

Who did he get in the draft after 95? steven o'reilly? mick mcguine? hardly good choices in my eyes.

Mick Mguine was a shocker as was Oreilly, we had some good years tho after that, 99, 2000-2001 then we had the draft penalties and went for recycled players through necessity.

 

[pluga_4]

ok, so who are the other options????

it's the list that's the real problem.

 

[irish_setanta]

Mick Mguine was a shocker as was Oreilly, we had some good years tho after that, 99, 2000-2001 then we had the draft penalties and went for recycled players through necessity.

Yeah but in those good years we took Vance, Massie and livingston now theres some bad choices, still think we should have held on to massie, but we didnt us the draft wisely.

 

[Badabing]

Who did he get in the draft after 95? steven o'reilly? mick mcguine? hardly good choices in my eyes.

mansfield

 

[SA Blue]

A good quarter, then business as usual...Sure they get a run on, but the guys don't get angry, they wilt and let dopes take speccies like that dude did over McGrath..HoHum..And the defensive decisions! OH WHOAH! CAn'T WE RUN THE BLOODY BALL OUTTA THE BACK 50? WHY KICK TO FLOODING FLANKS? WHY ISN'T BRYAN OUT THERE ARE A LONG DEFENSIVE KICKER??

We really are the worst team since Fitzroy in the 90s. Oh well, Dimisimtrious' 'fair' draft will be working for us this year, again, but watch Elshaugh and Libba and the rest of the recruitment Drongo squad - is Kerna in there? - stuff it up with some of our trades, like those pearlers, Longmuir and Chambers...Where's the guillotine when you need one?

You really have no idea. Statements like some dope take a speccie is just stupid. That was Goodwin and McGrath did everything he could. He played a great game.

To think that Bryan is the answer to our problems is absurd. The last thing you do against Adelaide is bomb it as they will simply flood back and run it out.

Recruitment squad stuff it up??? Yes there have been shockers in the past, but for a while a we have used our top picks on youth.

But then you don't want facts, they get in the way of a good whinge.

 

[audas]

Pagan isnt finished. But we are stuffed. We are very close to gaining another spoon, and thats about as bad as it gets. If that were to happen our supporter base would be severly affected not just in membership but even any bandwagoners that might have been hanging on. No-one will even admit to suppporting the blues except the truly loyal. Potential for three spoons in four years (dont really know,.....nor do I want to) a trully abismall affair. The worst part about this situation is that we will not improve much for another year MINUMUM and probably two. That would leave us with 4 or 5 spoons. Incredibly bad.

Lance, Fev are our only great players. Then we have maybe 3 or 4 good players who are going from good to better 2 of which MAY become great. (Waite, fisher, walker, murph). There are a couple of players below this (simpson, betts) who are reasonable at the moment and have room to improve but thats it. And then we have a plethora of average players we all overate. (houla, stevo, scotland, lappin etc all of which have peaked and are now on the downhill side of things) Thats our team and its not good. We need at LEAST 3 more really good players to start thinking about even pushing for the top eight and that is one or two years away.
There maybe plenty of youth coming through however none of them have stood out as superstars of the game. Kennedy has potential but nothing concrete. Our entire resurection is currently based on hope.

Pagan isnt finished, but if we get the spoon this year, and onther next year.......what say you then. And if we finally do decide that pagan is finished we will chastise ourselves for doing what carlton always does by putting off the hard decisioins until its too late.

 

[mediumsizered]

Why Parkin? won us a premiership in 95.

Parkin admitted on White Line Fever that he felt partially responsible for Carlton's current plight, due to leaving an ageing list behind when he handed over the reins to Brittain. He has also conceded on a number of occasions that he was too generous to some of the '95 premiership players, letting them keep their spot in the side when their form did not warrant it. The rebuild should have commenced after our flogging by Brisbane in the '96 finals series. Instead we continued to top up (Kangas supporters take note) and rather than having several quality players at the club with 6-8 years experience, we have a shortage of quality players in the 24-27 age group.

 

[Teagson]

Can people seriously stop posting this rubbish after every loss?

Another coach will not make a difference to the current side!

We have Port Adelaide next week (Which I expect to win), the Kangaroos two weeks later, Brisbane straight after, Geelong (Who are travelling terribly), the Bulldogs (Who have about a dozen injuries), Essendon again (Hooray!), the Dockers in Melbourne, Melbourne, and Hawthorn in Round 19 (Who are playing almost as poorly as us). Surely we can snatch a few wins from these games!

Let's see what the season brings, and quit wanting to sack the coach after every heavy defeat! I'd expect this kind of crap from Tigers or Saints supporters.

 

[murphster]

As bad as the last 2 weeks have been and they have been bad, we are actually ahead of where Essendon is as far as rebuilding goes, think about all the senior players at Essendon that will be gone in the next 1-2 years, Hird, J Johnson, D Peverill, Soloman, M Johnson and the list goes on, and they haven't had draft penalties and money trouble, so at least we will have someone to laugh at in the near future and they won't be getting priority picks either. Our draw coming up is pretty good with some games we should win so don't worry be happy.

 

[bluey blue]

Why Parkin? won us a premiership in 95.

As John Nicholls said the other day, Parkin won 95 and then by his own admission chose to reward the players instead of rebuliding the team. He and Elliot are the direct reason for this f----------n mess. Pagan would not have been able to see the crap he was about to inherrit and I tell you that if he wasn't at the helm not only would we be f-----d now we also wouldn't have a future. If Nicholls fully suports Pagan so do I.

 

[BlueBelle]

As John Nicholls said the other day, Parkin won 95 and then by his own admission chose to reward the players instead of rebuliding the team. He and Elliot are the direct reason for this f----------n mess. Pagan would not have been able to see the crap he was about to inherrit and I tell you that if he wasn't at the helm not only would we be f-----d now we also wouldn't have a future. If Nicholls fully suports Pagan so do I.

He may not have been able to see the crap he was inheriting (even though i believe our skills are the only thing that makes us crap!!) but he has been there for 4 years and really hasnt done alot of positive things to change our side (he has recycled players and has only just recently gone for the young kids). What has he done towards our future that another coach wouldn't have done? Seriously?

 

[as0l0]

(he has recycled players and has only just recently gone for the young kids). What has he done towards our future that another coach wouldn't have done? Seriously?

Was there another option? I'm led to believe that there wasn't since we were excluded from the draft.

 

[flidge]

Was there another option? I'm led to believe that there wasn't since we were excluded from the draft.

Don't think any other coach can/could have done better. He inherited an ageing list with minimal talent (thank god for lance, fev and waite), missed out on two really good players (Goddard and Wells) and played well in a season where we really shouldn't have (wouldn't you rather Deledio, Roughhead, Tambling etc instead of Walker?).

Really, like Forest Gump said sh1t happens.

It's matter of turning that into good sh1t that will see what Denis' is really made of. The club looks like it can't get worse. So I reckon Denis goes if we don't finish at least 8-12 in TWO season's time. Not next season - I think we need one more to really develop - look at the Saints.

 

[Aussie Joe]

I wish the club would enforce that Pagan is only to play and develop young players for 2006-7. So that our new coach has something to work with.

 

[Funkalicous]

We probably would've been better off keeping Brittain. When we won the spoon with him, we had a lot of injuries, and we lost plenty of close ones. Unfortunately though, Brittain would've traded Fev to the Bombers. Even still, he proved in 2001 that he could coach to the modern game.

There's nothing worse than hearing "No one could have done a better job than Pagan". I'm sorry, but that's a cop-out! I would only say that if I knew that all the players were being coached to the maximum of their potential. - They clearly have not been. Every year we have a stack of players playing well below their potential. And collectively, we are the worst kicking team in the league. Why is that? I see Paul Roos take a bunch of Rubgy players and turn them into dead-eye-dicks. And yet classy players like Nick Stevens have gotten steadily worse with their disposal. Our only accurate kick at goal is so because he spends an extra half hour of goal kicking practice a session. Could you imagine our scorelines if he stuck solely to the training regime?

If we're gonna keep Pagan on next year, then we have to find replacements for Libba and Elshaugh. This illusion of having untalented players has gone on long enough.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

We probably would've been better off keeping Brittain. When we won the spoon with him, we had a lot of injuries, and we lost plenty of close ones.

There's nothing worse than hearing "No one could have done a better job than Pagan". I'm sorry, but that's a cop-out! I would only say that if I knew that all the players were being coached to the maximum of their potential. - They clearly have not been. Every year we have a stack of players playing well below their potential. And collectively, we are the worst kicking team in the league. Why is that? I see Paul Roos take a bunch of Rubgy players and turn them into dead-eye-dicks. And yet classy players like Nick Stevens have gotten steadily worse with their disposal. Our only accurate kick at goal is so because he spends an extra half hour of goal kicking practice a session. Could you imagine our scorelines if he stuck solely to the training regime?

Our disposal by foot is appalling.
We had 25 direct turnovers by foot. (Adelaide 6)
That is z grade footy. End to end drills to stationary targets SHOULD be a no brainer, but somehow we turn it into rocket science.
To simply give it to the opposition, and Adelaide know how to use it, is football suicide.
The coach is copping it for his tactics,
(except his merry go round approach to Lance)
but you would reckon whoever is the skills coach should get his arse kicked.

 

[ShlomoGlickstein]

We probably would've been better off keeping Brittain. When we won the spoon with him, we had a lot of injuries, and we lost plenty of close ones. Unfortunately though, Brittain would've traded Fev to the Bombers. Even still, he proved in 2001 that he could coach to the modern game.

There's nothing worse than hearing "No one could have done a better job than Pagan". I'm sorry, but that's a cop-out! I would only say that if I knew that all the players were being coached to the maximum of their potential. - They clearly have not been. Every year we have a stack of players playing well below their potential. And collectively, we are the worst kicking team in the league. Why is that? I see Paul Roos take a bunch of Rubgy players and turn them into dead-eye-dicks. And yet classy players like Nick Stevens have gotten steadily worse with their disposal. Our only accurate kick at goal is so because he spends an extra half hour of goal kicking practice a session. Could you imagine our scorelines if he stuck solely to the training regime?

If we're gonna keep Pagan on next year, then we have to have to find replacements for Libba and Elshaugh. This illusion of having untalented players has gone on long enough.

Well said Funky. I'd also like to add the setanta experiment to demonstrate how bad our skills coaches are. They haven't been able to teach him to kick either. Skills can be taught, especially when you have 'leite' athletes with 'talent'. there's a MASSIVE skills/training industry in the workplace, you'd think elite sports would match that as well? Maybe they need the equivalent of Computer Power in the footy, where a bum can be unemployed in one year, and become an IT analyst support dude and drive a Porsche in one year. Imagine getting that result with our team!