Pat Cummins

[The_Reaper]

And the speed guns in the Foxtel games seem to be a few kmh's behind that of those in the international games. Blokes that are getting clocked at 143 or so in the Big Bash (like Siddle, etc) are the ones that are regularly around 150 when they play for Australia. So Cummins may be around the 150kmh mark already, which is awesome.
Being from NSW, he's a monty to play for Australia within 12 months.

Siddle does not bowl 150kmh regularly.
He may clock high 140s/low 150s with an effort ball but he does not bowl 150 regularly.

 

[1990crow]

Im not overly keen on protecting this kid from top flight cricket. If he is good enough I think he should be playing as high a level as his skill set demands, age shouldnt be a factor. Id like to see him pushed in front of at least Stuart Clark and Mitchell Starc in the shield stakes and one day sides as his pace alone could probably already cause problems for international batsmen.

 

[KiwiRoo]

Im not overly keen on protecting this kid from top flight cricket. If he is good enough I think he should be playing as high a level as his skill set demands, age shouldnt be a factor. Id like to see him pushed in front of at least Stuart Clark and Mitchell Starc in the shield stakes and one day sides as his pace alone could probably already cause problems for international batsmen.

I agree
Age shouldnt be the issue. If they perform they get picked.
The pakistanis have picked 18 yr olds in Wasim Akram & Amir & they've gone alright..(though admitedly a pakistani birth certificate is a guide only)
McDermott was also only 19

NZ have picked Milne at 18 and he clocked 150k in the 20/20.But hes still raw , so will be interesting to see what the NZ selectors do with him.

pick them while they're fast i reckon

 

[1990crow]

I agree
Age shouldnt be the issue. If they perform they get picked.
The pakistanis have picked 18 yr olds in Wasim Akram & Amir & they've gone alright..(though admitedly a pakistani birth certificate is a guide only)
McDermott was also only 19

NZ have picked Milne at 18 and he clocked 150k in the 20/20.But hes still raw , so will be interesting to see what the NZ selectors do with him.

pick them while they're fast i reckon

Exactly and if I was to compare him to another young fast bowler of years gone by, Brett lee, he actually has him covered in line and length as well as seam position. I'd say he's actually more developed skill wise than Lee when he first came in. However, he is only seventeen. Maybe wait until he turns eighteen and has played a few domestic one dayers before we try him out. Good point on the Pakistani quicks, I think Amir is going to be a handful once he gains more international experience. Cummins is an out and out quick this generation of domestic bowlers seems to be lacking.

 

[western royboy]

Exactly and if I was to compare him to another young fast bowler of years gone by, Brett lee, he actually has him covered in line and length as well as seam position. I'd say he's actually more developed skill wise than Lee when he first came in. However, he is only seventeen. Maybe wait until he turns eighteen and has played a few domestic one dayers before we try him out. Good point on the Pakistani quicks, I think Amir is going to be a handful once he gains more international experience. Cummins is an out and out quick this generation of domestic bowlers seems to be lacking.

Slightly off topic but I think Amir might struggle to add to his international total for awhile.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Siddle does not bowl 150kmh regularly.
He may clock high 140s/low 150s with an effort ball but he does not bowl 150 regularly.

By regularly I mean every innings, which I'm pretty sure would be true. You don't see him get near that in games done by Foxtel and pretty much everyone else (who plays both levels) seems to be recording lower numbers on Foxtel games than they do in games done by channel 9. I'm certainly not the only one who's noticed this and I think some who play in these games have also commented on it, when being interviewed.

 

[1990crow]

Slightly off topic but I think Amir might struggle to add to his international total for awhile.

Havent been paying much attention to Pakistan cricket lately, did he get suspended? If so, would be a shame.

 

[The Passenger]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amir#Spot_fixing_allegations

 

[KiwiRoo]

Exactly and if I was to compare him to another young fast bowler of years gone by, Brett lee, he actually has him covered in line and length as well as seam position. I'd say he's actually more developed skill wise than Lee when he first came in. However, he is only seventeen. Maybe wait until he turns eighteen and has played a few domestic one dayers before we try him out. Good point on the Pakistani quicks, I think Amir is going to be a handful once he gains more international experience. Cummins is an out and out quick this generation of domestic bowlers seems to be lacking.

The BIG thing he has over Lee is he gets bounce. Lee may be quicker, but bounce is what international class batsmnen like the least

and Amir would've been a handful, but I think his goose is cooked

 

[1990crow]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Amir#Spot_fixing_allegations

So I guess we will find out in about a weeks time! Kind of sad if he gets suspended, will probably only be a year or two suspension but still. Hopefully its not a life-long suspension and the ICC have been compassionate. He shouldnt have done it however cricketers from Pakistan come from a different life back home so it is harder to judge.

 

[The 747]

Care to give examples? Smith is the only obvious one, with Hughes bursting onto the scene with no obvious technical difficulties until teams worked on him.

Leave that state bias crap out of this thread please.

I don't really need to comment anymore than to highlight what you posted and ask you to think about what you said for a while.

 

[TheBrownlowMan37]

I don't really need to comment anymore than to highlight what you posted and ask you to think about what you said for a while.

You should read the next line, because he wasn't "figured out" until he was already in the test side. Nice attempt

 

[Doodlesweaver]

just having a look at his scores now. great season in 08/09. 542 runs at 60 including a double century. got bought into the WA team on the back of that season. 214 at 43 since but hasn't played much due to state committments.

one thing i didn't realise is at all forms how little he has bowled. has he had injuries?? he would seem very under utilized for a guy that can bowl 130km+... he didn't bowl at all in 2009/10. from 06/07 he has played 38 games of grade cricket he has bowled 83 overs... much the same at state level. 7 overs a match in First Class games, 3 overs a match in 50-over cricket....

I thought he was a genuine batting all rounder like Watson, but he is getting about the same amount of time bowling as someone like Greg Blewett but Blewett was a genuine part time bowler. Marsh looks like a decent enough bowler. Haven't seen much of him but he's action is pretty solid nice and high and he has got enough pace - although he doesn't hit the bat very hard. Admittedly a first class bowling average of 91 may not inspire much confidence in his captain but he is only ten games into his career.

I'm not sure that WA know what to do with him. He's been batting at 8 and treated as the third seamer in his last few matches in the Shield before injury. On top of that, this year, he has been playing with a screwed ankle which finally gave in - same problem as Ryan Harris. I don't like the idea that they were dosing up a kid to keep him on the pitch, he'll end up as fragile as his brother at this rate.

 

[1990crow]

Looking forward to watching him tomorrow night! You would assume that given his performances during the Bash he will at least be given a chance in some of the remaining OD matches and maybe even a shield match.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Siddle does not bowl 150kmh regularly.
He may clock high 140s/low 150s with an effort ball but he does not bowl 150 regularly.

The other one I forgot to mention was Nannes. He's pretty consistently around the 150kmh mark for Australia (anything up to around 153kmh) yet he's usually measured between around 138-142kmh in his games in the Big Bash. Surely he doesn't bowl 10kmh faster when he's bowling for Australia? Like last night, he bowled what looked like a very fast, full ball and they commented on how it was a really fast one, then the speed came up on the screen and it was only 142kmh. Which means Cummins is already clocking faster balls than that, which is a fantastic sign.

 

[Doodlesweaver]

And the speed guns in the Foxtel games seem to be a few kmh's behind that of those in the international games. Blokes that are getting clocked at 143 or so in the Big Bash (like Siddle, etc) are the ones that are regularly around 150 when they play for Australia. So Cummins may be around the 150kmh mark already, which is awesome.
Being from NSW, he's a monty to play for Australia within 12 months.

If people want him to be a long-term prospect, keep him well away from the national bowling coaches for now. They seem to fast-track injury over development.

 

[Yoda_]

Any footage of him? match highlights?

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Cummins tearing Tassie apart again. The kid is a genuine talent. Bowling high 140's and bowling brilliantly.

 

[Bradesmaen]

pitch map that makes Johnson look consistent. Good but needs work/time,

 

[ptrg]

pitch map that makes Johnson look consistent. Good but needs work/time,

It's a t20 dude...? Taking 4 wickets and becoming leading wicket taker inthe entire comp must mean he's doing something right?

 

[BarneyBent]

pitch map that makes Johnson look consistent. Good but needs work/time,

It's T20. Variation is absolutely key. 24 deliveries in exactly the same spot will get absolutely tonked.

Having said that, and by the same token, how much of that is deliberate and how much is a lack of control is yet to be seen. Once he plays the longer form stuff we'll know a lot more about him. However, what is undeniable is that he's bloody quick, he's awkward, and he has stepped up to state cricket without a problem. He is bloody exciting!

 

[Bradesmaen]

Its natural variation, not T20 variation. Stuart Clarke proves you don't need to vary where you pitch it to be successful.

 

[dr nick]

pitch map that makes Johnson look consistent. Good but needs work/time,

He's got surprisingly good instinct for when to be bouncing players and when to be pitching up. Bowls a few wides on occasion yes, but if you want someone who just bowls it in one of two slots every ball you'd recruit hilfenhaus.

 

[Jimthegreat]

Its natural variation, not T20 variation. Stuart Clarke proves you don't need to vary where you pitch it to be successful.

As good a Stuey Clark was in the Test arena, where that consistency of bowling is great, the second half of his ODI career he got belted often as the bats had a fair of where the ball was landing.

Is it right he is only 17yo? Thought I heard that on Sports Tonight.

With a name like Cummins he could have a cider named after him....lol!!!

 

[BarneyBent]

Its natural variation, not T20 variation.

How on earth could you possibly know this?

Stuart Clarke proves you don't need to vary where you pitch it to be successful.

I think you'll find that while Clark is more than capable of hitting the same spot time after time, and used this to great effect in Test cricket, he makes excellent use of variation in T20 cricket. He is one of the most variable bowlers in the competition, with a great number of pace variations, a handy bouncer, good control and manipulation of line, and can actually bowl yorkers.

Also, what is just as important as variations in T20 cricket is knowing how to use them. Clark knows how to use them, and unless Cummins is ridiculously lucky, he too knows how to use them. Make no mistake, Cummins is not a variable bowler by accident.

Does that mean that Cummins is capable of bowling consistently (as well as variably)? No. We won't know EITHER WAY until he plays some state cricket in the longer forms. All we know is that he has a brilliant bouncer, he's bowling 145+, and he gets good, rearing bounce off a good length, and for a 17 year old quick, that's very impressive.