Certified Legendary Thread Patrick Cripps and Ah Chee

[Pistol Night]

How about in future no one getting injured in a tackle, in a marking contest, whilst running, whilst competing.
You have a "duty of care" to make sure no one around you gets injured.

Whether you like it or not - that is the way the game is heading. They want to attract the soccer mums. And it is YOUR responsibility now to ensure t others don't get injured.

Like I said, the situation with Lewis Young from earlier in the year is a perfect encapsulation of the way the game is going.
He had two alternatives.
1- brace his body and bump (so as to protect his body)
2- jump out of the way and dive on the ground rolling around.

The 2nd alternative is now the preferred option. It will take a few years, but it seems like within a while physical contact (it seems) will largely be eradicated.

Cripps (with hindsight shouldn't have leaped TO COMPETE for the ball) but once you make the decision to take your feet off the ground from now on you are liable. There was no indication he wanted to harm his opponent. He just wanted to be in the best position for a contest. And that was with momentum.

Second to the ball is now the way to go. Looking at tackling situations. That Collingwood forward with tattoos Jamie Elliott got three of his goals by NOT going for the ball. He waited until they picked it up, they had no prior opportunity in at least 1-2 of them, but it didn't matter. The tackle was that good that the ball spilled out.

We were always taught "get first to the ball". Not always advisable.

Taking this suspension well?

 

[faible]

Cripps (with hindsight shouldn't have leapt TO COMPETE for the ball)

You got there eventually.

He made the wrong choice. Player got knocked out. He gets to wear the consequences of his choices.

These guys have elite spatial awareness, can take possession and dispose of a ball in under a second, they're quite capable of making decisions in the course of play as to what they hit, how, and where.

Cripps made the wrong choice. He's not being executed because of it. He'll make better choices in future.

This whole childish 'waah football is so soft now' is complete nonsense. Players just can't be thugs anymore.

 

[HirdyLannister]

View attachment 1470976

This picture clearly shows his right arm tucked in ready to bump.

 

[Sector 7G]

Ah Chee takes his eyes off the ball just before it gets to him and turns to look at what is coming. As a result he is knocked backwards unable to break his fall. If Ah Chee had kept watching the ball while he took possession contact would have been in the back and he would have fallen forward and a concussion would have been very unlikely. To me it is just contesting the ball and no free was paid (Cripps should have been given one for being thrown to the ground by 2 Lions while the ball was still in play)..

I am very doubtful this argument will be successful.

 

[smit_is]

This picture clearly shows his right arm tucked in ready to bump.

And his eyes on the ball, with his left arm / hand in a position to collect the ball on his chest.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Yup, so back to the original point of my post… there is evidence to support a claim he was contesting the ball.

That’s not evidence. That’s narrative. An open hand could mean absolutely anything and you have to craft it to suit your agenda.

The other points are evidence, as they are indisputable facts. Cripps DID choose to jump in the air, Cripps DID collect him with a hip/elbow bump, Cripps DID hit him in the head, Ah Chee WAS concussed, Ah Chee DIDN’T take any further part in the game (and won’t next week).

 

[#40]

If only Cripps had waited two weeks and done it to Ginnivan. They would've said Ginnivan dropped his knees and drew the contact.

 

[Kanye West]

Just to further explain this is what Carlton will challenge and the verdict in regard to Willie Rioli:

“The tribunal will be astute to uphold any charge where a player was initially intending to contest the ball, changed that intention and in doing so breached his duty of care. That is not this case,” Gleeson said.

“Willie Rioli had eyes for the ball as he entered this contest. There is no doubt he braced for contact a split second before contact, but when doing so, did not cease to contest the ball. The way in which he did so was not unreasonable.”

See how everything there says contest. It does not matter one bit that it's not in a marking contest. Carlton will try and argue that Cripps falls under that second point. To be honest, he definitely doesn't but this is what Carlton will argue and there is a case there, not a great one, but may as well try.

This is why the fee to challenge the ruling needs to be much higher than the 5k it currently is. Otherwise just make it free, it's not like 5k is a deterrent for clubs (Kangaroos not included).

 

[faible]

That’s not evidence. That’s narrative. An open hand could mean absolutely anything and you have to craft it to suit your agenda.

The other points are evidence, as they are indisputable facts. Cripps DID choose to jump in the air, Cripps DID collect him with a hip/elbow bump, Cripps DID hit him in the head, Ah Chee WAS concussed, Ah Chee DIDN’T take any further part in the game (and won’t next week).

Funny how many of the people pursuing a certain narrative just happen to be Carlton supporters. Weird.

 

[JyeDye]

This is why the fee to challenge the ruling needs to be much higher than the 5k it currently is. Otherwise just make it free, it's not like 5k is a deterrent for clubs (Kangaroos not included).

It's why there were reduced sentences for early pleas. They should raise it or bring that back.

 

[Sector 7G]

And his eyes on the ball, with his left arm / hand in a position to collect the ball on his chest.

In rewatching the video , I don't think that Cripps would have directly seen Ah Chee until quite late, as the ball was up in the air from the punch and Ah Chee was approaching the ball at right angles to Cripps, and came in from the side. Ah Chee never took clean possession or controlled the ball.

 

[smit_is]

That’s not evidence. That’s narrative. An open hand could mean absolutely anything and you have to craft it to suit your agenda.

The other points are evidence, as they are indisputable facts. Cripps DID choose to jump in the air, Cripps DID collect him with a hip/elbow bump, Cripps DID hit him in the head, Ah Chee WAS concussed, Ah Chee DIDN’T take any further part in the game (and won’t next week).

Evidence is the material placed before a court / tribunal, for the purpose of assisting a presiding authority in making a decision.

Evidence can be a fact used to support a conclusion. However, evidence is not always a fact.

In this case, it could be argued that Cripps’ hand was open (fact), eyes on the ball, and as others have pointed out, his left arm appearing to be in a position ready to collect the ball on his chest. Consequently, this could be used as evidence to support a claim he was fairly contesting the ball.

 

[Saint12]

Next Carlton supporters will be saying Cripps wasn't even there it was Jack Newnes

32

Jack Newnes

Age

32

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

11.3

4star

HB

7.7

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

CL

1.3

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

9.0

4star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

CL

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.8

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

CL

0.4

3star

that knocked Ah Chee out

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Evidence is the material placed before a court / tribunal, for the purpose of assisting a presiding authority in making a decision.

Evidence can be a fact used to support a conclusion.

In this case, Cripps hand was was open (fact), which could be used as evidence to support a claim he was fairly contesting the ball.

And the (fact) is that it was on a Sunday, and I can say that Cripps hates bumping blokes on a Sunday, and much prefers catching leather balls in a peaceful manner, and by your threshold that makes it evidence if I present it in front of a court or tribunal.

 

[smit_is]

And the (fact) is that it was on a Sunday, and I can say that Cripps hates bumping blokes on a Sunday, and much prefers catching leather balls in a peaceful manner, and by your threshold that makes it evidence if I present it in front of a court or tribunal.

Perhaps you should gain a better understanding of what EVIDENCE is, before attempting to lecture people on this subject, as if it was FACT.

And for the record, I think the 2 weeks will be upheld.

 

[harmesy 37]

You got there eventually.

He made the wrong choice. Player got knocked out. He gets to wear the consequences of his choices.

These guys have elite spatial awareness, can take possession and dispose of a ball in under a second, they're quite capable of making decisions in the course of play as to what they hit, how, and where.

Cripps made the wrong choice. He's not being executed because of it. He'll make better choices in future.

This whole childish 'waah football is so soft now' is complete nonsense. Players just can't be thugs anymore.

That's exactly the point now. If you injure someone whether accidentally or on purpose you are now liable.

What about if you push someone, they trip over and damage their knee. They are out for 10 weeks. Should you be out for 10 weeks as well?


It is all about punishing people, not the intent. No one can seriously argue that Cripps' intention was to knock the bloke out. It was a contest that went wrong.

 

[Jugada]

Hand was open... Give me a ****ing spell. Just take the L and stop embarrassing yourself with that ridiculous argument

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Perhaps you should gain a better understanding of what EVIDENCE is, before attempting to lecture people on this subject, as if it was FACT.

And for the record, I think the 2 weeks will be upheld.

You’re right, I should have stated that your observation, while profoundly weak and circumstantial and open to be interpreted in any one of a million ways, can technically be described as evidence.

Just as the man confronting Crocodile Dundee did, in fact, brandish a knife… of sorts, despite Mick’s outburst to the contrary.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Hand was open... Give me a ******* spell. Just take the L and stop embarrassing yourself with that ridiculous argument

It was to catch Ah Chee’s head once he knocked it off. Incontrovertible evidence.

 

[faible]

That's exactly the point now. If you injure someone whether accidentally or on purpose you are now liable.

What about if you push someone, they trip over and damage their knee. They are out for 10 weeks. Should you be out for 10 weeks as well?


It is all about punishing people, not the intent. No one can seriously argue that Cripps' intention was to knock the bloke out. It was a contest that went wrong.

He chose to bump, he could have chosen to do a number of other things in that situation, but he chose to bump. Thus wearing the consequences.

If you perform a football action and someone gets injured in the process in an unforeseeable way, all good. If you push some and through some very bizarre sequence of events they do an MCL, it would be unlikely you'd get suspended. If you push someone deliberately in to a fence and they get knocked out, you get suspended.

There's a spectrum.

Having a meltdown that the game is going soft is idiocy, the game isn't. What is happening is that players are expected to have a duty of care for other players. We've seen time and again - Danny Frawley, Shane Tuck two recent examples - of the horrible, life-long consequences of head knocks.

Of course, Neanderthals like you don't give a shit about that, so long as your captain doesn't get suspended for knocking a bloke out by making a bad choice hey?

 

[Rustin Cohle]

Any chance we can retrospectively get Wellingham off this one while we're at it.

Clearly just in the marking contest...

 

[Toump Ass]

Footage is conclusive IMO, pretty clear Ah Chee concussed himself.

 

[Toump Ass]

Ah Chee never took clean possession or controlled the ball.

fn lol, amazing.

 

[Skull Face]

Nice melt.

How about players simply don't come in late to a marking contest, with no intent to impact the actual ball, leading with their shoulder?

It was a dumb action by Cripps. He had multiple options that he could have chosen that wouldn't have resulted in knocking out Ah Chee. He chose none of them.

Cant wait for your melt tonight

 

[maskmcgee]

It wasn't a marking contest. If you can list all the players who have knocked somebody out when taking a speccy, I'll point out the ones who got suspended.

Michael Gardiner knocking out Harry Taylor in 2009 for one.

LRT causing Luke McPharlin to be stretchered off the ground.



So where were their suspensions?