PC Pc Gaming/building thread

[dwwaino]

The more I read on this the more conflicting and unreliable info I'm getting and I feel like I'm no closer to an answer. I also may just be derp. Just wondering if anyone knows more definitively.

So Zen 3 and previous Ryzen for best memory performance it was best to leave RAM speed coupled with the FCLK in a 1:1. Native FCLK was 1800mhz so 3600mhz memory with tight timings was best. I remember they reported 2000 FCLK/4000 memory being the sweet spot but I read something once that only about 20% could ever achieve.

Now to my point. 1800mhz FCLK is default and 2000mhz meant overclocking your FCLK. For Zen 4 the default FCLK is 1733mhz but AMD have said 6000mhz is the "sweet spot" and for your clocks to be auto:1:1. Some have said based on 1733mhz FCLK at 5200mhz memory that's 2/3:1:1, or 2:3:3 (auto/1733:2600:2600). Is setting the FCLK to auto mean that enabling the DOCP/XMP profile for the memory auto set the clock of the FCLK and that in fact it's ok to now decouple the MCLK and UCLK from the FCLK? Is this how 6000mhz memory with overclock profile set and FCLK set to auto is getting 2000:3000:3000?

What I can't find a definitive answer on is if auto is the XMP profile setting the FCLK or if enabling the profile on say a 6000mhz kit means you have to manually overclock the FLCK to 2000mhz or not.

Hope that makes sense

 

[dav3]

The more I read on this the more conflicting and unreliable info I'm getting and I feel like I'm no closer to an answer. I also may just be derp. Just wondering if anyone knows more definitively.

So Zen 3 and previous Ryzen for best memory performance it was best to leave RAM speed coupled with the FCLK in a 1:1. Native FCLK was 1800mhz so 3600mhz memory with tight timings was best. I remember they reported 2000 FCLK/4000 memory being the sweet spot but I read something once that only about 20% could ever achieve.

Now to my point. 1800mhz FCLK is default and 2000mhz meant overclocking your FCLK. For Zen 4 the default FCLK is 1733mhz but AMD have said 6000mhz is the "sweet spot" and for your clocks to be auto:1:1. Some have said based on 1733mhz FCLK at 5600mhz memory that's 2/3:1:1, or 2:3:3. Is setting the FCLK to auto mean that enabling the DOCP/XMP profile for the memory auto set the clock of the FCLK and that in fact it's ok to now decouple the MCLK and UCLK from the FCLK? Is this how 6000mhz memory with overclock profile set and FCLK set to auto is getting 2000:3000:3000?

What I can't find a definitive answer on is if auto is the XMP profile setting the FCLK or if enabling the profile on say a 6000mhz kit means you have to manually overclock the FLCK to 2000mhz or not.

Hope that makes sense

No, no it doesn't Then again I honestly gave up on overclocking when it got more difficult than changing a jumper or a couple of basic BIOS settings, the level of f*ckery vs. performance gains don't really add up for me.

All this Infinity Fabric, FLCK, XMP, ratio hurts my brain, especially once you look at information from crappy echo chambers like Reddit where the most upvoted/popular opinion isn't necessarily the right one, and people really overthink things at times. Reading this article, is this what you're looking for?

At RAM clock rates beyond 6000 Mbps, the UCLK automatically goes into 1/2:1 mode, better known as 1:2. For example, if you activate an EXPO profile with DDR4-6400, the corresponding values are 3200 MHz for MCLK and 1600 MHz for UCLK. The FCLK remains capped at 2000 MHz, at least as long as it is not changed manually. For RAM clock rates below DDR5-6000, an average value is automatically set for FLCK between the base clock of 1800 MHz and the maximum of 2000 MHz, e.g. 1900 MHz for DDR5-5600.

 

[dwwaino]

No, no it doesn't Then again I honestly gave up on overclocking when it got more difficult than changing a jumper or a couple of basic BIOS settings, the level of f*ckery vs. performance gains don't really add up for me.

All this Infinity Fabric, FLCK, XMP, ratio hurts my brain, especially once you look at information from crappy echo chambers like Reddit where the most upvoted/popular opinion isn't necessarily the right one, and people really overthink things at times. Reading this article, is this what you're looking for?

Yep found exactly what I was looking for, thanks.



This is why on my current system I just got a good 3600 cl14 b-die kit so I could press one button and not have to worry about playing with the FLCK and memory controller like as you said. The gains are so small and negligible that I'm happy for the most simple option. If Zen 4 required manual FCLK overclocking I was just going to look at a 5200mhz kit. The prices between the 2x16gb kits aren't that much different so I'll add looking for b-die to my to-do list.

 

[dwwaino]

Next point on the thought train: 4080 Zotac was discounted at several retailers over this black friday/Cyber Monday period. Can't recall the exact price everywhere but Scorptec shaved $400 off making it $1999 which is far more palatable (though still far above 3080 MSRP prices at their launch so still a point to argue for some). How often has a new release seen that sort of discount so soon? They clearly aren't selling so if the 7900XTX and low 4080 demand can force the rest of the 4080 lines to drop by around 10% they just might become far more attractive and what I'll more than likely consider for the new build in the new year.

 

[Matera92]

Treated myself to a Cruicial P5 NVME drive, another 16gb of ram and a 5700x over black friday sales. Nice little upgrade from the 2700x and less power to boot.

Thought about the 5800X3d but in the end for $200 more couldn't really justify it. Next upgrade will be a platform jump and just move my drives with it.

 

[dwwaino]

Think I'm sold on the Fractal Design Torrent. What a case. Could mount a 420mm front rad + fans running silent, 3x 140mm fans on the bottom (included) tied to GPU temp with a single 140mm rear exhaust. Instant positive pressure and huge air flow. Can even fit ridiculous length 4080 and 4090 cards.

 

[biaseddustyfan]

you guys think it's worth it to buy one of the cheap 12gb rtx3060's (saw them at around $399 on sale this week) to replace a gtx980 if I replace nothing else? CPU will still be 8 years old lol (xeon e3-1231v3) 16gb RAM 650w gold psu, all SSD's. 1440p 165hz monitor

just getting sick of having to run some games at complete low settings to avoid tanking the framerate but not quite ready to spend big on a new build yet...

some games like Rocket League hit 165fps all the time but like Insurgency Sandstorm with my mates only stays 60+ with every single setting on low and still stutters into 5fps when shit's going down on a bigger server

 

[dwwaino]

you guys think it's worth it to buy one of the cheap 12gb rtx3060's (saw them at around $399 on sale this week) to replace a gtx980 if I replace nothing else? CPU will still be 8 years old lol (xeon e3-1231v3) 16gb RAM 650w gold psu, all SSD's. 1440p 165hz monitor

just getting sick of having to run some games at complete low settings to avoid tanking the framerate but not quite ready to spend big on a new build yet...

some games like Rocket League hit 165fps all the time but like Insurgency Sandstorm with my mates only stays 60+ with every single setting on low and still stutters into 5fps when s**t's going down on a bigger server

Only thing is if the 3060 is bottlenecked then you'll be spending on a DDR4 platform minimum anyway.

 

[biaseddustyfan]

Only thing is if the 3060 is bottlenecked then you'll be spending on a DDR4 platform minimum anyway.

yea honestly I should probably just stick it out and play old games in my backlog. i mean there's like 1000 I can play that my PC can handle fine....

started up a new wishlist today to gauge how much the new build will set me back lol looking like $4.6k at current prices

 

[dwwaino]

yea honestly I should probably just stick it out and play old games in my backlog. i mean there's like 1000 I can play that my PC can handle fine....

started up a new wishlist today to gauge how much the new build will set me back lol looking like $4.6k at current prices

Yeah prices are still bonkers on everything. I don't really have a budget, things cost what they cost, it's one of my only hobbies that costs serious money so I don't mind doing it every 2-3 years. I've always been able to swallow $500-700 for a good high end motherboard but to get the same thing in X670 it's about $1100 and that's not even the super premium EATX boards. It just means I only get a few things at a time and spread it out. I'll start after Christmas with a few things then just slowly grab everything over the next few months. I'm hoping the 4080 will come down ~10%. The MSI Surpim 4080 will perfectly fit the theme of the build I'm imagining and if it can come down to around $2500 I think it will be the sweet spot. I don't think that's an unrealistic expectation as retailers were flogging one of the Zotac 4080s for $1999 over Black friday sales and if the 7900XTX is competitive enough I think NVIDIA might just do that across the 4080 line. Just have to play it a bit more cautiously this time and see where these rate rises are heading.

 

[gaskin]

Anyone see this video from Jay? As each generation of cards get bigger, we'll probably end up with cases this size as the standard- at least for the high end cards.

 

[dwwaino]

Anyone see this video from Jay? As each generation of cards get bigger, we'll probably end up with cases this size as the standard- at least for the high end cards.

I vote we change dimensions on spec sheets from centimetres to PS5s.

 

[blackshadow]

AMD 7900XTX and XT reviews are out. I've watched five or six of the reviews; Pauls, HUB, GN, Level1, Jayz2cents, Hardware Canucks among them.

My picks for balanced coverage/analysis would be Level1, GN and Paul's Hardware. I felt Steve at HUB was rather petulant about pre-release marketing statements even though the actual performance comparison was very comprehensive.

My feeling is that the release 7900XTX has signalled game on between AMD and nVidia.

Looks like the XTX shades the 4080 performance at a better price point for nearly all games with the exception of Ray Tracing.

Wendell looks into a bit more depth at the RT and FSR v performance options than the other reviews and also has a look at the individual game optimisation that is on the way for AMD in the near future. Looks like there is quite a bit to come from AMD in coming months that will see performance improvement from Team Red with added features and driver improvements.

Reading the tea leaves in the next few months I can see both nVidia and AMD lowering prices - nVidia lowering the 4080 price to compete with the 7900 XTX , AMD responding to that and also lowering the XT price as on current pricing people will just buy the XTX version. Also, with a global recession likely there may be some softening of demand for what are essentially luxury items.

I wouldn't be surprised to see AMD launch a higher tier of the 7900 at CES and perhaps a mid-tier card as well.

I'll be sticking with my 6900XT as it does everything I need and cannot justify spending any money on PC hardware at the moment but if I was in the market I'd be holding fire for a few months before buying anything from either AMD or nVidia as I feel that competitions is only just starting to heat up.

 

[dwwaino]

Hopefully this turns the rumoured coming 5% discount of the 4080 (and coming NVIDIA lines) into 10%. As someone who regularly upgrades and is less concerned with future proofing the 4090 is untouchable at that price. If the Zotac 4080 can come down to $1999 for black friday sales when it only just launched then the MSI Suprim 4080 can come down to at least $2500. While that's still bonkers considering my 1080ti was $1200 and 3080 was $1700, but it's just the times. It probably won't be until around February that I pull the trigger on the graphics card anyway as I'll look at case, motherboard, CPU and RAM first.

Also **** HUB these days. Steve carries on like a total brat on twitter and I don't think their reviews of anything are particularly objective any more.

 

[drd23]

Looks like the XTX shades the 4080 performance at a better price point for nearly all games with the exception of Ray Tracing.

Which is pretty much what should have been expected imo

IDK why places like GN and HUB lean so much into measuring performance against the hype and criticise marketing as much as they do, while also always going on about how you should take 1st party benchmarks with a grain of salt. The 7900XTX was never going to compete with the 4090 at 60% of the price as some apparently wanted to believe, and it is asinine to measure it against that hype

Assuming that one accepts that the apparent new price point for top end GPUs was always going to shift up, I think its reasonable to argue that the 4080 is a not unreasonable product if you can get it at MSRP when compared to the 7900XTX if you value RT + the comparatively fringe benefits of DLSS, better encoder etc, but the tone of HUB's conclusion comes across as far more negative than that

 

[gaskin]

Which is pretty much what should have been expected imo

IDK why places like GN and HUB lean so much into measuring performance against the hype and criticise marketing as much as they do, while also always going on about how you should take 1st party benchmarks with a grain of salt. The 7900XTX was never going to compete with the 4090 at 60% of the price as some apparently wanted to believe, and it is asinine to measure it against that hype

Assuming that one accepts that the apparent new price point for top end GPUs was always going to shift up, I think its reasonable to argue that the 4080 is a not unreasonable product if you can get it at MSRP when compared to the 7900XTX if you value RT + the comparatively fringe benefits of DLSS, better encoder etc, but the tone of HUB's conclusion comes across as far more negative than that

Granted, I have only watched HUB's benchmark video, but the problem Steve had was that AMD were selling a performance that just isn't there. When these companies try and sell a certain performance from their cards and the cards don't live up to it, then of course they are going to be critical. With future driver updates they might be able to improve the performance but as of this moment in time they don't perform as we were told they would.

 

[dwwaino]

Which is pretty much what should have been expected imo

IDK why places like GN and HUB lean so much into measuring performance against the hype and criticise marketing as much as they do, while also always going on about how you should take 1st party benchmarks with a grain of salt. The 7900XTX was never going to compete with the 4090 at 60% of the price as some apparently wanted to believe, and it is asinine to measure it against that hype

Assuming that one accepts that the apparent new price point for top end GPUs was always going to shift up, I think its reasonable to argue that the 4080 is a not unreasonable product if you can get it at MSRP when compared to the 7900XTX if you value RT + the comparatively fringe benefits of DLSS, better encoder etc, but the tone of HUB's conclusion comes across as far more negative than that

Bolded is a point Jay made a few years back that has always stuck with me. There aren't bad products but only bad prices. 4080 isn't a bad product but with no competition it was priced to sell more 4090s. I have always had my sights set on the 4080 and I still believe that once more models from both teams launch the price will come down a little. Whatever this price is still will be far too much for some but like you said this is the new price point.

One of the biggest things for me on top of paying for the extra features (granted that are still only in select titles) is the piece of mind with drivers. This is going to be subjective and vary from person to person and their experience, but my staple is Destiny and NVIDIA support have been awesome whenever there has been a driver related issue with any Destiny update. They have typically acknowledged and replicated the issue with new beta drivers out within a week while the AMD owners are often left hanging for over a month. Some clan mates have actually gone back to NVIDIA because of it.

 

[gaskin]

HUB have released their benchmarks for the 7900XT and Steve reckons it is a waste of time at that price and you might as well spend the extra $100 and get the XTX. The only way he could recommend it is if it was $200 cheaper. It says a lot when he has told AIB companies not to bother sending him the AIB cards.

 

[dwwaino]

Hopefully this turns the rumoured coming 5% discount of the 4080 (and coming NVIDIA lines) into 10%. As someone who regularly upgrades and is less concerned with future proofing the 4090 is untouchable at that price. If the Zotac 4080 can come down to $1999 for black friday sales when it only just launched then the MSI Suprim 4080 can come down to at least $2500. While that's still bonkers considering my 1080ti was $1200 and 3080 was $1700, but it's just the times. It probably won't be until around February that I pull the trigger on the graphics card anyway as I'll look at case, motherboard, CPU and RAM first.

Also * HUB these days. Steve carries on like a total brat on twitter and I don't think their reviews of anything are particularly objective any more.

I knew it would happen. Two days ago when I checked the 4080 Suprim (because I regularly check back on prices of stuff on my shopping list) it was $2799. Now both the Suprim and Suprim X are $2499.

 

[blackshadow]

I knew it would happen. Two days ago when I checked the 4080 Suprim (because I regularly check back on prices of stuff on my shopping list) it was $2799. Now both the Suprim and Suprim X are $2499.

I have a feeling we'll see both 4080s and 7900 prices (the XT looks very much over priced compared to the XTX) drop in coming monts due to both competition and the global economic downturn that looks set to hit.

Just watched this vid on the XFX 7900XTX - what a big beautiful monster!

 

[dwwaino]

I have a feeling we'll see both 4080s and 7900 prices (the XT looks very much over priced compared to the XTX) drop in coming monts due to both competition and the global economic downturn that looks set to hit.

Just watched this vid on the XFX 7900XTX - what a big beautiful monster!

The first 4080 discount was meant to be 5% with another to come. That 5% was for US prices and MSRP because nearly 10% has been shaved off here. The Suprim X is now exactly where I thought it should be but now once markets slow down and other competition and lines go live the price for this particular card on my shopping list could be around $2300 by end of Jan. Now I'm 99% settled on every part I'm getting I might even start grabbing a few smaller things this week to get it rolling and will likely leave the GPU until the very end just in case the prices come down again.

Choosing a case is the hardest so I think I might grab that first before I change my mind again and while it's in stock.

 

[Ry009]

Got a notification in Windows of free upgrade to 11, does that seem right? Anyone on 11 at the moment?

 

[blackshadow]

Got a notification in Windows of free upgrade to 11, does that seem right? Anyone on 11 at the moment?

Been using it for a year no issues.

I installed Win11 Pro when I built my PC.

 

[dwwaino]

No dramas on Win 11 either and yeah it's a free upgrade.

 

[dav3]

Got a notification in Windows of free upgrade to 11, does that seem right? Anyone on 11 at the moment?

As others have said it's fine, people sook about it but it's really not that bad, and the recent feature updates have fixed a lot of the problems people had with it. While I won't be rushing to get the fleet of PCs at work onto it, I've been running it since just after it was available and it's fine....... not perfect, but fine.